I think you've crammed too much into this trip. I'd be inclined to cut Bromo - a lot of travel time and complexities for a sunrise there.

However, another option would be to cut Singapore, spend two nights at Bromo and one night in Surabaya. There is a wonderful old Sarkie Brothers hotel there - the Majapahit. We will be staying there in November. You can get a huge suite for the price of an ok hotel in Singapore.

Hi Kathie,
I hear you about possibly cutting Bromo. It does seem like a lot of travel time for one beautiful sunrise and of course it could be cloudy that morning. Then again, it looks awesome in the pictures!

Regarding spending that last night in SIN vs SUB, I think SIN makes more sense. We have free nights we can use at the Hilton or Conrad there and then we wouldn't have to pay the change fees to change our tix either. The flights to SIN are cheap (about $70pp) and actually come out less than the change fees. Although, flying out of SUB and skipping SIN makes more logistical sense if we still try to include Bromo.

Have you decided to travel in September instead of August? This is the most important point as travel in Java will be difficult in mid-to-late August.

If nothing else changes, it comes down to two -- or maybe three -- nights in Java which isn't enough for both Borobudur and Bromo. They are both great destinations, but very different.

Yogya/Borobudur for culture (amidst beautiful scenery) and Bromo for nature at its most phenomenal. The logistics of geting from Yogya to Borobudur are simpler than getting from Surabaya to Bromo and although I agree the Mahapajit is a terrific hotel, Yogya is a more interesting city than Surabaya.

Either way I'd suggest staying near Borobudur or Bromo (versus Yogya or Surabaya). The choice of accommodations is challenging, but experience of the monument (or mountain) improves exponentially.

The reason I would suggest flying from Hong Kong to Jakarta or Surabaya is that I would lean toward putting Java before Bali and getting the more demanding travel over before you totally relax in Bali. Not a critical distinction, though.

I'm not so sure about Amed for snorkling. For Scuba, there are some good sites, but for snorking I'd favor Menjangan.

Rather indecisive, eh?

Hi Marmot, thank you again for your replies! Our trip is late September/early October. I agree that we will stay at Manohara for 1 nt in JOG in order to be right at Borobudur and then if we spend a 2nd night it will be in JOG town. Same goes for Bromo, if we go there, we will spend the night at one of the lodges in Cemoro Lawang so that we would be close by for the sunrise tour.

I also agree about maybe doing Java at the beginning of the trip rather than at the end. I have looked into connecting directly into JOG or SUB from DPS when we first get there and both are possible (and still cheaper than the airline change fees to go direct to SUB and it doesn't mess up HKG that way either, just ads an extra flight). My hesitation of going DPS - SUB is that we would get there at 6:45PM and I'm not sure how safe it would be to have a driver take us up to Cemoro Lawang after dark. Flying DPS to JOG we would arrive at 7:35PM and could drive straight to the Manohara from there. That is something to really consider. When looking at my option A above, that involves being up well before dawn four mornings in a row, ouch. Switching Java to the beginning and dealing with the extra flight could be worth it.

I've read a lot of good reviews on snorkeling in Amed and Mengangan. I am leaning toward Amed just because it seems to have a nice chill beach town vibe about it too; whereas, Pemuteran sounds pretty isolated. I think Amed is better located for day trips too, but I don't really know.

Lol, jobin, yes, I am very indecisive!! If I had unlimited time, I could just do everything, but it's so hard to narrow down with so few days to work with.

I wouldn't want to drive up Bromo after dark either but I don't think it would necessarily unsafe. All of the tours arrive from Surabaya and Malang pre-dawn so the drivers are used to it. The disadvantage is that you'd miss the scenic aspect of the drive.

By the way, it's chilly in the mountains. You'll need a sweater or a jacket etc.

As for the serial early early wakeups, that's fairly common on Java too. If it's any consolation about 180 million souls are getting up every morning at 4:30 for prayers so you'll have plenty of company.

You seem to have a good handle on the ramifications of the various logistics. Java is not a particularly easy place to move around in, but I think either plan would work.

I like to use Jakarta as a hub as you have more choices when flights are cancelled or delayed and I try to fly Garuda wherever possible inside Indonesia. I can understand, however, that you don't want to incur additional fees, so if the connections are good through Denpasar, then that should work too..

[If you forego Central Java you could also consider driving from North Bali to Bromo, perhaps stopping in Ijen. This involves taking a local car ferry so may be on a more basic level of travel than you'd like.]

I haven't been to Amed recently. There's been a lot of development there in the past two to three years, which may or may not be a positive. I would agree that East Bali has more to offer culturally than North Bali, but neither has especially good beaches.

Hi again Marmot. It's good to know that driving up to Bromo at night is not considered unsafe, that does open up some additional options. We could still see the nice scenery on the way back down to Surabaya

If we try to connect from DPS straight to SUB or JOG, how long should we allow for the connection at DPS to clear immigration/customs and check in for the domestic flight?

I suppose trying to go to the Gilis rather than Amed is a bad idea (too much more travel time)?

One more thought, if we were to go to Pemuteran, how long would it take from there to Bromo overland/sea?

I haven't transferred between international and domestic in Bali so I can't give you advice based on personal experience, but I'd allow three hours.

Some things to consider: First, I assume you'd have to get your visa in Bali. the visa on arrival process can be unpredictable so you either have to get your visa before you leave the States or plan some extra time. Second, Bali airport is undergoing renovation and expansion and is difficult to navigate. Third, I'm not sure that you can check your bag through to your final destination. It depends on your connecting airline.

I'd give Jakarta airport the edge for all of these reasons.

I also haven't made the land/sea journey from Bromo to Pemuteran, but my son has. It takes most of a day but if you leave early you can get to Pemuteran late afternoon. If you do this, I'd encourage you to look into stopping at Ijen. It's meant to be spectacular.

I'm going to defer comments on Lombok and the Gilis as it's been some time since I've been there. Travel time from door to door Ubud to Gili Trawangan should be about half a day. The Gili Cat leaves from Padang Bai and goes directly to Trawangan and then to Lombok.

Oh no, don't add Ijen into the mix, then I'll never make up my mind, lol!

Besides the transport time, I think the biggest issue I have with the Gilis is that we would have less time to day trips around Bali, but they don't look nice and relaxing.

Oops, meant to say they DO look nice and relaxing.

Just thought I'd post an update on what we've decided on for our itinerary:

2 nts Hong Kong - Conrad Hotel Hong Kong
1 nt Bromo - Yoschi's guest house
1 nt Yogyakarta (Borobudur) - Monohara Hotel
2 nts Tanjung Benoa - Conrad Bali
3 nts Ubud - Komaneka at Monkey Forest
3 nts Amed - Kembali Beach Bungalows
2 nts Singapore - Conrad Hotel Singapore

We'll be flying between HKG-DPS-SUB, SUB-JOG, and JOG-DPS to save a little bit of time vs. train or bus. Still hectic I know, but I think it will work. We'll have plenty of downtime after Java at least.

In Singapore the S$1 billion Gardens By the Bay has opened. Should be worth a visit. I'll be visiting soon.

http://www.gardensbythebay.org.sg/

Are you fixed or still looking for comments? Mine: I'm afraid you're really shortchanging yourself on your time in Bromo & Yogya. Too much transit and not enough time on the ground. I'd pick one or the other or cut a day out of Bali.

I also think you could do better than the Bali Conrad. Lovely resort but disappointing beach.

Hi Marmot,
We've already got our plane tix so we're pretty set on the Java part. I know it's not enough time, but maybe we'll get back at some point and spend longer. At least this way, we get to see Bromo and Borobudur if we don't make it back though. We're not dead set on our Bali itinerary yet, but I think what we have will give us a good mix. The reason for the Conrad hotels is that we've got lots of points so they are basically free. Given the two crazy days on Java, I figured it would be a nice place to chill out once we get to Bali. We don't land until almost 7PM so it seems like staying near the airport would be good and then a second night for some relaxation time and maybe a little site seeing in the southern beach areas before moving on to Ubud.

KMLoke, thanks for the tip on the new Gardens by the Bay. Looks awesome!

LA, I'm not opposed to "best of" trips. (The first time my husband & traveled in Asia we went to 8 places in 10 days.) I just hope the airlines cooperate. Can you use your points at the Bali W? Similar resort-y ambience but a lot nicer beach and more interesting neighborhood.

Fade_a_way; With only 1 day in Yogjakarta that is all the more reason to use the services of a highly knowlegeable guide/driver to see the 3 temples, the little quaint willages and if time permits a 1/2 stop at the Sultons Palace. Our guide is great thoug a little expensive by $20 but you might find another hightly qualified guide. The guides at the temples for hire of little help as are are the very limited English skills of the taxi drivers.

Hi Marmot, we don't have points for the W, unfortunately. Only Hilton and Conrad hotels right now. I do look at the first part of the trip as sort of a "best of". Did the same recently with Machu Picchu before heading to the Galapagos and it worked out great. Hopefully, we'll get just as lucky with the flights this time too!

StanKase, thanks for the info on your guide. We have a driver already lined up, but i think we have your guide's info further back in this thread if we change our mind and decide to use someone who is both a guide and driver.

A GUIDE BRINGS SIGHTS ALIVE AND THE DELTA IN COST PER DAY IS $30 or so. IF YOU DO CHANGE YOUR MIND his email is [email protected]. You can use other guides as well but I really think you are better off based on our travels where we have used guides and occasionally drivers because we could not locate a quakified guide.