What Happened to Family-Friendly Airlines??
Oct 12th, 2004, 04:50 AM
#21
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michaelcrane: It happened to us once with Continental. We were really surprised the gate agent would not let families with children board first. Our son is a toddler and was fine. But there was a couple with an infant (so of course all the bags) and we saw the gate agent specifically tell the couple they'd have to wait till their number was called. But on the return flight, they pre-boarded families with little ones. Talk about inconsistence.
Oct 12th, 2004, 09:16 AM
#23
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Michael:
Sorry to hear about your problem. I guess I have mixed emotions on this subject . . .
On the one hand, IMO, it makes perfect sense to board people genuinely needing special assistance first, so that the boarding process could go much smoother. Why they didn't grant you this courtesy is beyond me . . .
On the other hand, I often wonder when I see families who fly w/little kids if they REALLY need to fly. I know that there are some times (funerals, etc.) when it's the only option. But if driving is an option, I think it's got to be better for everyone -- the family can do whatever, whenever, and there are none of the inherent hassles (trying to schlep all that luggage through the airport, etc.) involved in flying.
Also, I posted this elsewhere, but I think having a seperate section for families w/children on planes is an excellent idea the airlines should consider. It seems to me that this way, the families (at least the responsible ones) wouldn't have to worry about causing any disruptions, and, I've got to believe that in your case, had you been in a "family section," the people around you would at least have been far more understanding about your car seat situation.
And sorry, but to the poster who suggested a first-class upgrade, just as in bars (or at least it used to be with responsible parents), I don't think first-class is an appropriate place for kids. Most of the travellers are businesspeople, who, by and large, need the peace and quiet to get work done.
Sorry to hear about your problem. I guess I have mixed emotions on this subject . . .
On the one hand, IMO, it makes perfect sense to board people genuinely needing special assistance first, so that the boarding process could go much smoother. Why they didn't grant you this courtesy is beyond me . . .
On the other hand, I often wonder when I see families who fly w/little kids if they REALLY need to fly. I know that there are some times (funerals, etc.) when it's the only option. But if driving is an option, I think it's got to be better for everyone -- the family can do whatever, whenever, and there are none of the inherent hassles (trying to schlep all that luggage through the airport, etc.) involved in flying.
Also, I posted this elsewhere, but I think having a seperate section for families w/children on planes is an excellent idea the airlines should consider. It seems to me that this way, the families (at least the responsible ones) wouldn't have to worry about causing any disruptions, and, I've got to believe that in your case, had you been in a "family section," the people around you would at least have been far more understanding about your car seat situation.
And sorry, but to the poster who suggested a first-class upgrade, just as in bars (or at least it used to be with responsible parents), I don't think first-class is an appropriate place for kids. Most of the travellers are businesspeople, who, by and large, need the peace and quiet to get work done.
Oct 15th, 2004, 12:59 AM
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I travel (for leisure) in an upgraded class for about 30-40% of the time. What is this "business people working hard" concept then? I more than often see them enjoying the comforts (hic) like the rest of us. I never see that much work done - unless I'm such a disruptive influence I stop them working!.
A family section on a plane would be a nightmare for anyone who found themselves put in there. In any case we already have them (Bulkhead seats) and anywhere within 4 rows should be avoided, if possible, on overnight flights.
Lets face it - families have to travel, and if airlines will sell them seats in business or first class then why shouldn't they sit there as well. If people travelling in the premium classes don't want families sitting around them they should do what British Airways told one of their celebrity travellers to do, and that is to buy the seats around them.
I'm sure kids can play up on coaches and trains as well, shall we restrict them from travelling on those as well? I always find it strange how people get very self-important on planes - you just don't see it on train travel.
A family section on a plane would be a nightmare for anyone who found themselves put in there. In any case we already have them (Bulkhead seats) and anywhere within 4 rows should be avoided, if possible, on overnight flights.
Lets face it - families have to travel, and if airlines will sell them seats in business or first class then why shouldn't they sit there as well. If people travelling in the premium classes don't want families sitting around them they should do what British Airways told one of their celebrity travellers to do, and that is to buy the seats around them.
I'm sure kids can play up on coaches and trains as well, shall we restrict them from travelling on those as well? I always find it strange how people get very self-important on planes - you just don't see it on train travel.
Oct 15th, 2004, 05:57 AM
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Kids aren't the problem. Defective parents are. So many parents are so wrapped up in themselves that they don't notice their kids acting up, and a lot of them can't or won't do anything about it when they do notice it.
Oct 17th, 2004, 09:23 AM
#28
I have to reply to this post!! I have two kids 10 and 12 and they have been flying since they were babies. I hate getting on a plane and having some kid kick my seat and cough all over me for the flight while mine sit and read or play cards. It is in how the parents deal with their kids. Most people don't care if their kids are obnoxious. I also hate the person in front of me that reclines their seat! Like, I have any room for my legs in the first place. Seats should not recline! That being said, I do think parents with small children should be preboarded along with handicapped people. It is a pain to get them settled in and, I always appreciated to get them on early. We all pay a pretty penny to fly and we all want to get off the ground safely, smoothly and with as little screaming as possible. It is inevitable that I get the seat with the snot-nosed kicker behind me! Oh well,I had to vent too. The bright side is when I am on a plane it is for a vacation. My poor husband does this every week.
Oct 19th, 2004, 11:24 AM
#29
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I don't have children and I'll be the first to admit I have no patience with them. I do believe children have the right to fly with their parents, but I also believe parents have the responsibility to control the behavior of their child(ren). There is nothing worse than having a child sitting behind you kicking your seat the entire flight (no matter how long or short it is) and a parent sitting next to them letting them get away with this behavior.
I believe people w/ disabilitites and people w/ small children (NOT children who are teenagers!) have the right to preboard b/c when the rest of us start boarding it keeps the line moving fast with these individuals already seated on the plane.
I believe people w/ disabilitites and people w/ small children (NOT children who are teenagers!) have the right to preboard b/c when the rest of us start boarding it keeps the line moving fast with these individuals already seated on the plane.
Oct 19th, 2004, 07:47 PM
#30
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Hi there
Just a couple of observations, as a father of two under five year old boys who have flown internationally more than once.
a) Encouraging good behaviour in your children does not start when the plane door is closing. It should have started pretty soon after they learnt how to understand their parents.
b) If you are seen to be making the effort to encourage your kids to behave on a plane then the tolerance level of the surroumding passengers generally rises. As opposed to ignoring their behaviour which just irritates fellow passengers even more. What I am saying is, they are your kids make the effort to look after them. they are not the responsibility of the aircrew or your fellow passengers no matter how friendly they may be.
c) Always get a separate seat for your child no matter if they qualify for the under two ride on the lap treatment. That way you can put them in their car seats, which are a more familiar way of travelling for them (Plus they are more likely to sleep in them).
We have had a couple of incidents on flights which were not intended, such as number one screaming all the way down on descent into Sydney. However since he had been good for the previous three hours of the flight the other passengers were more suprised than anything as opposed to rolling eyes with a "hear we go again look".
Just a couple of obseravtions, and no my kids do not kick the seat in front of them because they have been told not to.
my 2 cents.
Steve
Just a couple of observations, as a father of two under five year old boys who have flown internationally more than once.
a) Encouraging good behaviour in your children does not start when the plane door is closing. It should have started pretty soon after they learnt how to understand their parents.
b) If you are seen to be making the effort to encourage your kids to behave on a plane then the tolerance level of the surroumding passengers generally rises. As opposed to ignoring their behaviour which just irritates fellow passengers even more. What I am saying is, they are your kids make the effort to look after them. they are not the responsibility of the aircrew or your fellow passengers no matter how friendly they may be.
c) Always get a separate seat for your child no matter if they qualify for the under two ride on the lap treatment. That way you can put them in their car seats, which are a more familiar way of travelling for them (Plus they are more likely to sleep in them).
We have had a couple of incidents on flights which were not intended, such as number one screaming all the way down on descent into Sydney. However since he had been good for the previous three hours of the flight the other passengers were more suprised than anything as opposed to rolling eyes with a "hear we go again look".
Just a couple of obseravtions, and no my kids do not kick the seat in front of them because they have been told not to.
my 2 cents.
Steve
Oct 20th, 2004, 12:05 AM
#31
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kiwi, God bless you! You are exactly the type of parent that passengers pray for. I truly believe almost all airline passengers are parents, grandparents etc. And they love children.
I personally feel sorry for children that are not taught how to act in public. I cringe to think what kind of adult they will become because their parents out of a false sense of trying to show them love or just plain ignorance don't bother to teach and encourage their little ones to grow up to be good citizens.
Yes, I agree, when a parent is responsable and at some time the baby/child is having a problem on the flight I for one (and I believe many others) will be the first to understand and sympathize. Thank you for being a responsible parent that no doubt will send well adjusted and good citizen children into the world.
By the way, going by your name, assume you are from New Zealand?
My father was born in Wellington, but basically raised in Austrailia.
Best Dad in the whole world. But we knew the rules. Thank goodness.
Your comments remind me of my
Dad. He was a great fellow.
I personally feel sorry for children that are not taught how to act in public. I cringe to think what kind of adult they will become because their parents out of a false sense of trying to show them love or just plain ignorance don't bother to teach and encourage their little ones to grow up to be good citizens.
Yes, I agree, when a parent is responsable and at some time the baby/child is having a problem on the flight I for one (and I believe many others) will be the first to understand and sympathize. Thank you for being a responsible parent that no doubt will send well adjusted and good citizen children into the world.
By the way, going by your name, assume you are from New Zealand?
My father was born in Wellington, but basically raised in Austrailia.
Best Dad in the whole world. But we knew the rules. Thank goodness.
Your comments remind me of my
Dad. He was a great fellow.
Oct 20th, 2004, 01:35 PM
#32
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Hi LoveItaly,
Yes indeed I do live in New Zealand. However not in Wellington but in Auckland.
I should have added to my post that most times I have travelled whether with my family or not, generally most of the other children on the plane have been very good. However it is always that 5% that stick in your mind and make that trip momorable for all the wrong reasons.
Steve
PS I love Italy too. My wife and I threw our coins into the Trevi fountain so hopefully that means we shall return one day.
Yes indeed I do live in New Zealand. However not in Wellington but in Auckland.
I should have added to my post that most times I have travelled whether with my family or not, generally most of the other children on the plane have been very good. However it is always that 5% that stick in your mind and make that trip momorable for all the wrong reasons.
Steve
PS I love Italy too. My wife and I threw our coins into the Trevi fountain so hopefully that means we shall return one day.
Oct 21st, 2004, 12:04 AM
#33
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Hello Kiwi, first of all if you threw those coins in the Trevi Fountain you both will return to Rome! You have to, or the tradition will be broken.
I have never been to New Zealand I am sorry to say. I had the honor once of being a hostess in Napa Valley when many of the worlds countries ambassadors and diplomates from the UN were attending. This was around 1972. Your ambassador from New Zealand and I had the most lovely talk. He told me since my father was born in New Zealand I was a "Kiwi". Oh I wish. He was a very charming gentleman.
My late husband had spent time in Auckland and always said that one could never be with a more relaxed gracious people than the people in New Zealand.
But again, I am sorry to say I have not been to your beautiful country, much to my regret.
When I read your post it made me smile, you sound (and I am sure your dear wife is also) like such a true gentle person, full of love for live, consideration for other people, someone the world needs more of. A good day to you, and thank you for your message.
I have never been to New Zealand I am sorry to say. I had the honor once of being a hostess in Napa Valley when many of the worlds countries ambassadors and diplomates from the UN were attending. This was around 1972. Your ambassador from New Zealand and I had the most lovely talk. He told me since my father was born in New Zealand I was a "Kiwi". Oh I wish. He was a very charming gentleman.
My late husband had spent time in Auckland and always said that one could never be with a more relaxed gracious people than the people in New Zealand.
But again, I am sorry to say I have not been to your beautiful country, much to my regret.
When I read your post it made me smile, you sound (and I am sure your dear wife is also) like such a true gentle person, full of love for live, consideration for other people, someone the world needs more of. A good day to you, and thank you for your message.
Oct 22nd, 2004, 12:13 PM
#34
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Hello LoveItaly,
Thank you very much for the nice comments. We certainly do hope to return to Rome. Though not for a couple of years.
The whole family next time. Now that will be a challenge keeping young ones amused on (What for us) is a 24 - 30 hour flight.
Airlines in our neck of the woods do help out though. Air NZ longhaul, Air Pacific and Qantas all have activity packs which help out. The roll out of individual TV screens is helping as well. Though I am not a huge fan of the one eyed babysitter it does help on occassions, especially if tavellnig with children.
Steve
Thank you very much for the nice comments. We certainly do hope to return to Rome. Though not for a couple of years.
The whole family next time. Now that will be a challenge keeping young ones amused on (What for us) is a 24 - 30 hour flight.
Airlines in our neck of the woods do help out though. Air NZ longhaul, Air Pacific and Qantas all have activity packs which help out. The roll out of individual TV screens is helping as well. Though I am not a huge fan of the one eyed babysitter it does help on occassions, especially if tavellnig with children.
Steve
Oct 25th, 2004, 06:57 AM
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Hello,
IMHO, everyone should have a more tolerant attitude towards parents. If it is hard for the passengers having a crying infant or over-active toddler on the flight, think of the parent having to take care of them. I am speaking from the perspective of a parent who has travelled alone with a 10 month old AND one who is getting ready to travel with a 2.5 yr old and a 10 mnth old on an overseas flight, in two legs, one for 8 hrs, the other for 10hrs. I absolutely need preboarding because I will be carrying the baby, have the toddler by my side as well as the diaper bag, and of course the stroller.
Anyway, I do think there should be some tolerance towards family flying. When I read posts like these, some of the posters can barely restrain the disdain they display in their posts.
D.
IMHO, everyone should have a more tolerant attitude towards parents. If it is hard for the passengers having a crying infant or over-active toddler on the flight, think of the parent having to take care of them. I am speaking from the perspective of a parent who has travelled alone with a 10 month old AND one who is getting ready to travel with a 2.5 yr old and a 10 mnth old on an overseas flight, in two legs, one for 8 hrs, the other for 10hrs. I absolutely need preboarding because I will be carrying the baby, have the toddler by my side as well as the diaper bag, and of course the stroller.
Anyway, I do think there should be some tolerance towards family flying. When I read posts like these, some of the posters can barely restrain the disdain they display in their posts.
D.
Oct 25th, 2004, 10:32 AM
#36
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Desireesun I agree with you, I think child bashers are coming back as cockroaches with a million children, however, I think what people really object to are stupid parents, not the kids themselves. Definition of a stupid parent? One who doesn't bring the required stuff for their kids, a new toy, a dvd player, their favorite blanket, jammies for night flights, crayons and a new coloring book, an eyemask if the kid will wear it. Food that they like, snacks, milk and enough diapers. Whatever will keep the little guys content and quiet, thus helping the parent and those around them. It is exhausting, but when my children were little I spent every minute on the plane entertaining them so they'd stay quiet. I rarely got any rotten looks from fellow passengers, usually they were pretty benevolent, but I think that's because they saw me doing my best. Having their carseats and choosing the right time of day helps too. I looked at redeyes as a gift, my children would sleep the plane ride away. Just my humble opinion!
Oct 25th, 2004, 10:51 AM
#37
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Wills,
I agree. And, it is because of those "stupid parents" the others who travel with kids and work at keeping their kids AND the other passengers happy get dirty looks. I do have to mention, however that I have found European and American airlines and passengers a LOT more tolerant of infants and kids than other airlines. Preboarding is not an option, when boarding is announced unless you take it upon yourself to go to the attendant you will have to make do. Passengers will look very annoyed and even make snide remarks if the baby is hungry and you are taking a min longer than necessary to take the bottle out of the bag...
D.
I agree. And, it is because of those "stupid parents" the others who travel with kids and work at keeping their kids AND the other passengers happy get dirty looks. I do have to mention, however that I have found European and American airlines and passengers a LOT more tolerant of infants and kids than other airlines. Preboarding is not an option, when boarding is announced unless you take it upon yourself to go to the attendant you will have to make do. Passengers will look very annoyed and even make snide remarks if the baby is hungry and you are taking a min longer than necessary to take the bottle out of the bag...
D.
Oct 25th, 2004, 01:33 PM
#38
I agree with the above post about bringing a new toy or snacks for little ones.I am in full favor of preboarding. I vented because I always get the irritating kicker and the parent who spends his or her time snoozing. ( Which is what I was hoping to do) I feel sorry for the parents with the crying baby. Mine always had ear trouble on the landings. I know what that is like. It is the inconsiderate adults that irk me@!!!!
Oct 26th, 2004, 06:26 AM
#39
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Yup..Hurry up to wait people! God forbid someone needs to strap their child's safety seat in and they have to stop traffic for a minute.Cause the plane is going to be held up from takeoff,no doubt! How many morons stand up in the plane the minute it taxis in to the gate,because they think it's going to get them off of the plane any faster?
We have become such an impatient society....it's a shame!
I'll be going out to visit my sister and her husband in Washington with my daughter next Spring! I am a single mother with a (going on two year old) daughter. Jersey to PDX is about 6 hours.My daughter is normally very well mannered, but I can't make guarantees to anybody on the plane that she's not going to get restless after being strapped in for that long.I'm sure if she walks up the aisle I'm bound to get nasty stares from someone.Don't get me wrong, there are definately brats out there.A few years ago I flew EWR-PDX with a monster family and low and behold they were on the flight home!!! It's a shame that people like Elle feel the airlines belong to those who only travel frequently.I guess she thinks I should just drive for a week straight instead of sucking up the non stop flight. Well, I can assure you after being a travel agent for 5 years(many moons ago) that it was those very business people who could be just as annoying and demanding as that child who cries because she can't explain why the pressure is huring her! The execs who would stomp and scream if they didn't get the exit row, or bulkhead...yadda yadda...my decision to be a parent does not mean I have to give up what I love until my daughter is at an acceptable age for those who don't want kids of their own. We just did a week on Celebrity Zenith to BDA and any reservations I had quickly washed away. I can't tell you how many compliments I had all week how cute & well behaved she was.If I listened to half of the Fodorites,I would have seen BDA in about 6 more years! Maybe if we as Americans weren't always in such a rush,we would have more patience for everyone.
We have become such an impatient society....it's a shame!
I'll be going out to visit my sister and her husband in Washington with my daughter next Spring! I am a single mother with a (going on two year old) daughter. Jersey to PDX is about 6 hours.My daughter is normally very well mannered, but I can't make guarantees to anybody on the plane that she's not going to get restless after being strapped in for that long.I'm sure if she walks up the aisle I'm bound to get nasty stares from someone.Don't get me wrong, there are definately brats out there.A few years ago I flew EWR-PDX with a monster family and low and behold they were on the flight home!!! It's a shame that people like Elle feel the airlines belong to those who only travel frequently.I guess she thinks I should just drive for a week straight instead of sucking up the non stop flight. Well, I can assure you after being a travel agent for 5 years(many moons ago) that it was those very business people who could be just as annoying and demanding as that child who cries because she can't explain why the pressure is huring her! The execs who would stomp and scream if they didn't get the exit row, or bulkhead...yadda yadda...my decision to be a parent does not mean I have to give up what I love until my daughter is at an acceptable age for those who don't want kids of their own. We just did a week on Celebrity Zenith to BDA and any reservations I had quickly washed away. I can't tell you how many compliments I had all week how cute & well behaved she was.If I listened to half of the Fodorites,I would have seen BDA in about 6 more years! Maybe if we as Americans weren't always in such a rush,we would have more patience for everyone.
Oct 26th, 2004, 07:46 AM
#40
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When I flew SF-Boston 2 weeks ago at both airports AA had pre-boarding, this included families with babies. Nobody had a problem with it. And by the way not every baby cries on take-off and landing, I was surprised sitting close to 2 babies/toddlers.
