I am appalled by all of the pilot bashing that appears to be so prevalent on this board. Pilots are good and decent people who endure countless hours of training to make our skies safer for all. This July 4th, when our freedoms have been shaken to the core and arab terrorists have apparently frightened some posters here from air travel, stand by our airline pilots. I guess a lot of this criticism here is probably coming from people who either are envious of pilots or disgruntled for some other reason, but I for one am damn proud of these fine Americans. God bless our country.

I'll toast to that! Let's order another round.

Sure sign of arrogant asses who are lousing things up for other people: assuming that criticism of their behavior derives from jealousy. <BR><BR>Yay for the training that pilots get, yay for these knights-of-the-sky, yay for their decency. WHEN they are decent. <BR><BR>But why is criticizing people who believe their private, wealth-supported personal privilege -- which is supported by all kinds of federal, state and local moneys in the form of FAA funding and airport support -- is more important than protecting national security? And why is raising such questions automatically unpatriotic?<BR><BR>I'm not frightened of air travel but I'm frightened of negligence, arrogance, and stupid assumptions about who knows more than whom about safety.<BR><BR>What is it, Norton? DO you have some sort of pecking order of patriotism in which anyone who has enough money to do what they damn please is a Real American while anyone who questions a system that is clearly in need of re-evaluation because of major changes in the way the world works is clearly a traitor?<BR><BR>Stand by your PILOT?????? Oh, pullease. Next you'll be crying tears for Martha Stewart.<BR><BR>

Hey, peace, peace. I think "Flapper" is talking about private pilots and general aviation, not commercial airline pilots.<BR><BR>How's Adelphia workin' for you, Norton?

Well, I do think Martha Stewart is getting railroaded, she simply availed herself to the same kinds of advice anyone relies on their broker for and is getting dismembered by the media and an ungrateful public who couldn't wait for her to slip up. But that's neither here nor there. Flapper has it in for pilots but I'm not sure why. Pilots are our knights in the sky and I feel blessed to be able to count some of these fine gents among my closest associates.

I don't have it in for pilots. I have it in for pilots who abuse their privileges and status, and people who protect them, AOPA above all. <BR><BR>Everytime an airport owner -- AOPA likes to call them "airport sponsor" because AOPA thinks all airports belong to THEM -- has reason to consider alterations in the airport or even (horrors!) closing an airport, AOPA brings in its national big guns and plays very heavy-handed hardball to get its way. Forget about the interests of the local ecology, the local neighborhoods or the cities and towns trying to accommodate growth, AOPA will use a barrage of PR including smear campaigns, lots of behind-closed-door sweetheart deals, and complicated political threats against local politicians to keep THEIR airports and their access they way THEY want. <BR><BR>Since 9/11, AOPA has been pouncing on and stalling every effort to increase supervision of general aviation. Within 24 hrs. after 9/11, AOPA was pounding on doors to get private planes in the air again -- private planes that can pretty much fly when and where they want so long as they observe official no-fly zones over the White House, etc. <BR><BR>There's a reason why people are raising questions about small planes overflying government areas, nuclear power plants, power stations, water sources, etc. <BR><BR>Our war on drugs has been similarly stymied because no one wants to deal with the fact that private planes can criss-cross national borders, and land and take off at unstaffed small airports pretty much at will.<BR><BR>Part of the AOPA instructions to its members is to endlessly remind the community about what valiant "knights" pilots are, assets to the community, flying all sorts of public service routes -- and I don't dispute that many pilots are exactly that. They have done wonderful things for people in trouble, people needing medical transport or transplants, etc. etc. But pilots are human beings with failings, and some of those human beings may come from groups who wish nothing but evil to the USA.<BR><BR>When pilot and plane owners put things like their ability to get licenses and training without question and to move around the country without supervision and control over and above the safety and welfare of the public, I have problems. <BR><BR>What about the FAA, you ask? Don't they have to issue licenses, monitor travel, etc.? Sure, but the entire agency is currently dominated by aviators and is configured to promote unlimited private aviation. It's been very interesting to see how the FAA treads that very fine balance between responsiveness to public opinion and protecting their flyboy buddies.

In medicine, the jocks not good enough for pro leagues become surgeons and the drama club boys become ancillary staff or administrators. In aviation, the jocks become pilots (usually after a military stint) and the dramatics become flight attendants. Both retain their essential personalities - the jocks are arrogant narcissistic bullies, and the actors are too narcisistic and smart to let the contempt of others (especially arrogant bullies) get in the way of life.

I don't want to get involved in the argument here. But I do have unpleasant experience with an American Airline pilot. As a matter of fact, every time I fly with American Airlines, they give me the feeling that they workly in a very poor manner. Here is one of my stories. <BR>When I was flying back from Jamaica to LA via Miami, I had to wait 2 hours for my luggage. The explaination was there was no vehicle to move our luggages from the plane to the terminal. Of course, most of the people from my flight missed the transferring flights. I was put to a flight that I had to wait for another 2 hours. Then it was late for another hour. I walked up to the counter by the gate and asked the staff if there was an empty seat in the business class. They said yes. So I asked for a free upgrade. Of course some discussion / explanations went on between me and them. But it was peaceful. At this time, the captain walked by and asked the counter guys what was going on. Then he called me to the other side and told me that he would fly everyone but me because he had the feeling that I was a terrorist (it was shortly before 9/11, what a coincident). I thought he was losing his mind. I am college girl in my 20's. Was there a bit of me that looked like a terrorist? But the captain was very serious. I wrote down his name and told him that I would contact AA complain department after I flew back "silently." He walked away with fire. A few seconds later he walked back to me and threatened that he still could leave me in Miami.

Re: aa passenger-- If for some reason you looked like a terrorist to the pilot, I am glad he exercised his sound judgment and wouldn't fly you. We need to defer to their expertise, experience, and wisdom.

claxton,<BR>I'm sure that's exactly what you would say if you were the one left at the gate in MIA.

Oh, here, too, you make your dictatorial pronouncement, Claxton? Still sending everyone of whom you disapprove to their room? Tsk tsk.