wally34949

They should at least give free wine with the meal. When you have a choice of either $5 for a vodka and setup or a wine, the vodka makes more sense.

AAFrequentFlyer

And BA should give 100% of the miles flown on most economy fares.

The choice:

AA - 100% miles on most cheap, economy fares and $5 per drink means 2.5 R/Ts to Europe = 1 free domestic R/T.

BA - 25% miles on most cheap, economy fares and free drinks means 10 R/Ts to Europe = 1 free domestic R/T.

You make the choice......

xyz123

AA frequent flyer...

You can be pro AA all you want...the fact is the way they have handled this drink business and the demeaning snack pack they hand out as compated to Virgin and British Airways is indeed an indication of the contempt AA feels for its passengers.

xyz123

...I also saw the contempt AA has for its passengers in February...February 14 there was a storm in the NYC area that grounded all flights...next day weather was not terrible. I was scheduled to fly to London the next day....for no reason whatsoever they cancelled my flight to London whereas British Airways and Virgin both managed to get all their flights out to London that night so it wasn't the weather and they couldn't re-schedule me for two days ruining my holiday in London. Inexcusable.

AAFrequentFlyer

I never said that cancellations, delays can't happen. In fact they do, but it's true with all airlines.

Flying is not an exact science.

This year so far I have 52K miles under the belt, all with AA, plus few more with award tickets.

No cancellations so far, few delays here and there. In fact the most upsetting one was during my last trip. Flying from Gatwick to Raleigh-Durham, connecting to Miami, no problem. Had about 2 hour layover in MIA before the final segment to Tampa, a 1 hour flight. Just wanted to get home. Well, the layover turned into 5-6 hours and instead of getting home at midnight I got there ~3am. Frustrating, yes, unexpected, no. I would have been home sooner if I rented a car and drove. IT HAPPENS!

I'm surprised that it does not happen more often.

I'm always an advocate of free capitalist system. If one airline does not work for you, for whatever reason, go with another. We do have a choice. At the same time I believe I have a right to post some pertinent information about a specific airline if another poster asks.

or am I wrong?

Saying that the airline does not provide water, their customer service is non-existent (I actually believe it's one of the best in US, try calling UA CS and you may end up agreeing), the food sucks (all food with all airlines pretty much sucks in economy, I was just stating that there will be food), etc...is incorrect. All airlines have cancellations, delays, catering problems. Did you forget BA's problem some months ago? No food and drinks in ANY CLASS of service for few days because of their problems with catering. Did you forget BA's across the board cancellations at the same time?

So, let's keep everything in perspective, or at least try.

xyz123

aaff..

I don't think anywhere I questioned your right to your views or ridiculed your views.

Having said that, I have flown all 3 airlines (VS, BA, AA) on the JFK-LHR route and generally go with the cheapest although recently I have begun accumulating AA miles so I feel sort of "forced" if you will to use AA (not literally of course)....I think I am in a good position to compare policies, attitude and so what with the full realization that individual incidents can happen with any airline.

Having said that, this business of charging for drinks in coach class on international flights mnight not seem like a big deal, personally I am not a drinker so it shouldn't be a big deal although I do like to have a little wine with dinner, is an example of contempt towards its passengers. I don't see how you can reach any other conclustion...you're not trying to tell me it's a trade off for the frequent flyer miles, are you? And the food is much worse on the economy flights on the JFK-LHR route on AA; of that there is no question. The lack of a "snack" on the return flight, that silly snack pac is totally inedible compared to the finger sandwiches offered by both VS and BA as a mid-afternoon "tea". What else is it other than contempt.

And the cancellation of a flight despite the fact weather was not all that bad as witness the fact that on the very night in queston, 15 February 2007, you can check out the fact that BA and VS got every one of their JFK-LHR flights out while AA cancelled two despite the fact it knew it was a holiday weekend and would inconvenience and destroy long planned holidays for thousands of passengers and then the gall of them not being able to re-schedule me for two days no matter how much I protested how important this vacation was for me. Yes weather happens and if the flights had truly been cancelled because of weather it's one thing...but JFK is AA's home airport while both BA and VS don't have home ports there. To me, that was the most unconsionable thing I have ever seen and did indeed show a degree of contempt for its passengers. If BA or VS had cancelled because they couldn't get their equipment into JFK, perhaps that would have been understandable. But AA at its hub airport using an excuse of weather that night, was a blatant lie.

But I agree with you on one respect...if one takes AA because of the FF milesage then they do deserve whatever is thrust upon them. But to me, it's just an example of absolute contempt for the passengers which has been exhibited for a long time by AA.

AAFrequentFlyer

The problem with having a hub is that the airline is the most affected.

The bad weather was true across most of US during that time. The AA FA's and pilots may be coming from different cities to "start" their shift. I don't know for sure but I bet that was the main reason for AA's cancellations. At one time I dated an AA FA. She lives in Pittsburgh, and is based out of Chicago. Just because the weather seems beautiful in Chicago, it does not mean she was able to get to work. That happens. Perhaps another FA lives in Dallas or Little Rock or.......

AA does have an emergency crew at most airports but when s__t hits the fan, then there is nothing they can do about it.

BA or VS have crews at the local hotels because they just came in the night before.

When BA was cancelling many of their flight few months back because of catering problems, AA was ready to take their paxs. Their crews were ready to go and they didn't have any catering problems.

So, thinking that an airline's hub should be the reason for not cancelling is actually incorrect. The airline's crews come from all over the country and they need to get there and if the weather is bad then it's a logistical nightmare for the hub airline. Not as much as the point to point airline as in this case, BA or VS since their crews are at hotels just few miles away.

Gardyloo

I must confess I get a bit bemused by people citing the presence or lack of free wine with airline food as a measure of "contempt" for pax.

Personally, I feel contemptuous of an airline that charges top dollar for its &quot;premium&quot; services but won't let most passengers even choose their seats until just before the flight. Now <i>that's</i> contempt in my book, and it's downright dumb to boot.

No US carrier now gives out free booze in the back. Neither, by the way, does Aer Lingus, and SAS - that well known Scandinavian purveyor of Nordic contempt, only gives you one drink, and the rest are provided to you only upon presentation of Kroner or Euro or Baht, whatever.

Check out how much BA's online booking and change charges are, compared to US domestic carriers'. See what it takes even to <i>join</i> BA's Executive Club, then figure out how many &pound;s or $s or &euro;s it takes to earn enough tier points to get to the elite-enough status to be permitted to select your own %$#@ seats. Ask BA about fuel surcharges (and about price-fixing and the Joy of Gaol.) Ask BA frequent flyers about BACON (their domestic feeder service) being sold to FlyBe, where you pay-by-the-pound for your cabin bags, a la Ryanair.

It's a competitive business, and in my book if charging people for wine doesn't result in a drop in ridership, and therefore doesn't send businesses to the government for bailouts, or lead to them scrawing their retirees out of pensions, or making them bury their &quot;extras&quot; in a blizzard of add-on fees... well, then, I don't think it's contempt. I think it's good business in the good old American model.

Don't like it? Plenty of choice. Free booze on Air India. Also, from time to time, free rats in the cockpit.

xyz123

What about VS?

Patty

<i>No US carrier now gives out free booze in the back</i>

First one on DL is free on transatlantic (maybe all transoceanic?) flights

xyz123

Does CO...I think they do.

Gardyloo

<i>First one on DL is free on transatlantic (maybe all transoceanic?) flights </i>

How dare you refute my rant with reality?

rkkwan

AAFF is correct that the hub airline is most affected by weather or other situations at the hub airport.

Besides the catering issues, there was some fog around London last Christmas. BA cancelled most of its domestic UK flights out of LHR for 3-4 days, plus a few international flights. I was so worried that my parents and I stoodby on an earlier CO flight to LGW.

But basically none of the other airlines serving London (all airports) have issues, except for BA's LHR operation.

P_M

rkkwan, did you see xyz's question about free booze on CO? I'm thinking not, but you're the expert.

rkkwan

No free booze on CO coach, systemwide.

[I did receive free booze on two separate occassions, but those were &quot;special circumstances&quot;.]

Carrybean

I've flown to London annually since 1992 &amp; never in coach. I use all those miles I can accumulate with AA for upgrades. I could never had accumulated those miles with the other airlines.

I don't drink, but if I did I'd sure think it was worth it to spring $5.00 in order to get full miles so I'd be able to upgrade into the VERY comfortable Biz class seats with all the free booze, space &amp; amenities.

clevelandbrown

I don't have much experience with AA, but an article in this morning's NY times discussed the subject of overbooking (a pervasive practice), and listed AA as the lowest overbooker of large domestic airlines, so that might be one reason to fly them.

Incidentally, the article pointed out that as planes have become more and more crowded, people who are bumped may face a wait of multiple days before the next flight, leading some people to start thinking that the overbooking game, as played today, is no longer worth it.

As to flying in marginal weather, no poster here, I'll warrant, has enough information to make a sound decision as to whether a given flight should have been canceled. In reality, all other conditions being equal, an airline that cancels a flight in marginal weather would appear to be giving more consideration to the safety of its passengers than an airline that ignores the danger to the passengers of such a flight; that consideration for safety would certainly not be described by a rational person as showing contempt for the passengers.

The idea that an airline would cancel a flight (which cancellation will cut into their income) to demonstrate contempt for their passengers and ruin their vacations is not the product of rational thinking. This forum could stand a lot less anonymous name-calling (or its equivalent).

As to the original question, I think that in tourist class, all domestic airlines give about the same overseas service; the non-domestic airlines generally give a little better service in terms of food and drink, but no airline provides a tourist service that is enjoyable. We shouldn't expect more than basic and crowded service (someone accurately likened it to bus service) when we are paying such relatively low prices.

soccr

Let's get clear on what most of us mean by &quot;contempt for the passengers.&quot; It's not a matter of official, active hostility toward them (unless you're talking about the occasional go-round with FA or gate or res people). It's a matter of putting absolutely any other and every other consideration ahead of passengers', showing no respect for them as human &quot;cargo.&quot;

Safety is probably the one consideration I would put ahead of passenger service, but what most here are having a problem with is the obvious priority placed on profit regardless of, and to the exclusion of, actually serving their customers.

Yes, of course, the airlines are businesses (although there's always a good possible debate about whether they should be deemed a subsidizable public utility or not); but their business is a service-oriented one, and their service gets worse as they nickel-and-dime us more and more.

Should an airline ferrying people treat their human cargo any differently from how FedEx or DHL treats their packages? If they don't, then that's what people mean when they say the carriers show contempt (lack of respect) for the passengers.

Gardyloo

But it sounds like the evidence being cited for &quot;contempt&quot; boils down to movie selection, snack boxes and charges for alcohol. Are AA's practices on these lines, which are the same as other US carriers', sufficient to pronounce them &quot;contemptuous&quot; of pax?

Airlines have their strengths and weaknesses, to be sure. United has &quot;economy plus&quot; seating, but provides absolutely hellish offshore call-center non-service. British Airways gives out free hooch in coach, but has some of the tightest seating crossing the pond, and a very stingy frequent flyer program. Virgin has bright colors and a massage table for &quot;Upper Class&quot; pax but next to squat for easy onward connections past Hounslow. Plusses and minuses.

I've flown on a big long list of airlines over 50 years or so, and I've yet to find any one of them who I felt displayed &quot;contempt&quot; for their customers, but maybe my radar is set too high. No, I'll correct myself - Aeroflot 30 years ago - now <i>that</i> was contempt, comrade.

HKP

I'll say I've experienced what I'd consider &quot;contempt&quot; for pax most often when things go wrong or out of the ordinary -- something wrong with ticketing, connection, departure, etc.

I don't care much about the niceties listed by Garyloo, although the food issue on long slights is becoming more than just a matter of niceness.

But I would consider the following evidence of &quot;contempt&quot; -- pricing policies, cramped seating, and a hub system that means many places are either not served or served poorly. And certainly, planning to continue these practices indefinitely counts as &quot;contempt.&quot;