small claims court for travel website (orbitz)
Apr 9th, 2016, 05:18 AM
#22
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Some travel websites & airline websites have links and when you click on the link for insurance, you land on the insurance company's website and you are no longer on the travel website. On Orbitz, according to their FAQ page, also have a link to Allianz, you can view your travel policy, download the policy to print and take with you etc. Did you purchase the insurance via the Allianz link or by some another method? I'm surprised that everything would be lumped together as one amount on a credit card, normally it would have been broken down into air tickets with their associated value and an insurance policy with it's value. I'm also surprised that someone would go on vacation without looking for their travel insurance policy documents to take with them.
Apr 12th, 2016, 07:23 PM
#23
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I just now received an email response from Orbitz as follows:
"Dear Whitney,
Thank you for contacting Orbitz regarding your insurance for a booking made to Dubai on March 12, 2016.
It is my understanding that you requested for an investigation due to issues regarding the insurance with Allianz Global Assistance.
Whitney, please know that we reviewed your booking logs, and have found no error on our website. Right after booking the reservation, a message was displayed on our website advising that the insurance will only be considered as confirmed if you will receive a separate email confirmation from Allianz Global Assistance within 24 hours of booking. When we contacted the insurance company, they confirmed that they did not find any information about the policy you purchased.
Orbitz should have been contacted within 24 hours of booking to verify if the policy was confirmed since during that time, we are still able to work with the insurance company. Our record shows that we were contacted only until almost 4 months from the time of booking. As this is the case, Orbitz is not responsible to provide any compensation nor provide any refund.
Whitney, we wish our reply could be more favorable. Please be assured that Orbitz values your business and we look forward to serving you again in the future with your travel planning needs.
Sincerely,
Annika
Customer Service Supervisor"
Odin - It's actually not surprising that I would travel without printing my travel insurance. With internet being pretty available worldwide and having everything stored in email, I generally only travel with what is necessary. When I got them email with the confirmation and policy number, I truly did not think that I needed to double check it all. I was in trip planning mode (visas, booking hotels, etc) - plus I bought a house at that exact time as well. Combing through my email and credit card statement for a travel insurance purchase that I already had confirmation for did not even cross my mind.
I responded to Orbitz requesting the exact report for what happened. Obviously I would like to pursue this further. Any advice?
"Dear Whitney,
Thank you for contacting Orbitz regarding your insurance for a booking made to Dubai on March 12, 2016.
It is my understanding that you requested for an investigation due to issues regarding the insurance with Allianz Global Assistance.
Whitney, please know that we reviewed your booking logs, and have found no error on our website. Right after booking the reservation, a message was displayed on our website advising that the insurance will only be considered as confirmed if you will receive a separate email confirmation from Allianz Global Assistance within 24 hours of booking. When we contacted the insurance company, they confirmed that they did not find any information about the policy you purchased.
Orbitz should have been contacted within 24 hours of booking to verify if the policy was confirmed since during that time, we are still able to work with the insurance company. Our record shows that we were contacted only until almost 4 months from the time of booking. As this is the case, Orbitz is not responsible to provide any compensation nor provide any refund.
Whitney, we wish our reply could be more favorable. Please be assured that Orbitz values your business and we look forward to serving you again in the future with your travel planning needs.
Sincerely,
Annika
Customer Service Supervisor"
Odin - It's actually not surprising that I would travel without printing my travel insurance. With internet being pretty available worldwide and having everything stored in email, I generally only travel with what is necessary. When I got them email with the confirmation and policy number, I truly did not think that I needed to double check it all. I was in trip planning mode (visas, booking hotels, etc) - plus I bought a house at that exact time as well. Combing through my email and credit card statement for a travel insurance purchase that I already had confirmation for did not even cross my mind.
I responded to Orbitz requesting the exact report for what happened. Obviously I would like to pursue this further. Any advice?
Apr 13th, 2016, 04:34 AM
#24
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I didn't get earlier that there was a four month gap in there. Nor that you did not verify that you were actually charged on your credit card. Nor, secondarily, that you did (do) not carry documentation of the policy (or at least the coverage page) from the insurance company with you (which would be required for medical services).
It's probably time to settle back and chalk this one up to inexperience.
It's probably time to settle back and chalk this one up to inexperience.
Apr 13th, 2016, 04:36 AM
#25
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I would again point you to Orbitz's Terms of Service. This is what it states regarding "disputes."
Orbitz is committed to customer satisfaction, so if you have a problem or dispute, we will try to resolve your concerns. But if we are unsuccessful, you may pursue claims as explained in this section.
You agree to give us an opportunity to resolve any disputes or claims relating in any way to the Services, any dealings with our customer service agents, any services or products provided, any representations made by us, or our Privacy Policy ("Claims") by contacting "Orbitz Legal: Arbitration Claim Manager", at 333 108th Ave N.E. Bellevue, WA 98004. If we are not able to resolve your Claims within 60 days, you may seek relief through arbitration or in small claims court, as set forth below.
Any and all Claims will be resolved by binding arbitration, rather than in court, except you may assert Claims on an individual basis in small claims court if they qualify. This includes any Claims you assert against us, our subsidiaries, travel suppliers or any companies offering products or services through us, including Suppliers, (which are beneficiaries of this arbitration agreement). This also includes any Claims that arose before you accepted these Terms, regardless of whether prior versions of the Terms required arbitration.
There is no judge or jury in arbitration, and court review of an arbitration award is limited. However, an arbitrator can award on an individual basis the same damages and relief as a court (including statutory damages, attorneys’ fees and costs), and must follow and enforce these Terms as a court would.
Arbitrations will be conducted by the American Arbitration Association (AAA) under its rules, including the AAA Consumer Rules. Payment of all filing, administration and arbitrator fees will be governed by the AAA's rules, except as provided in this section. If your total Claims seek less than $10,000, we will reimburse you for filing fees you pay to the AAA and will pay arbitrator’s fees. You may choose to have an arbitration conducted by telephone, based on written submissions, or in person in the state where you live or at another mutually agreed location.
To begin an arbitration proceeding, you must send a letter requesting arbitration and describing your Claims to "Orbitz Legal: Arbitration Claim Manager", at 333 108th Ave N.E. Bellevue, WA 98004. If we request arbitration against you, we will give you notice at the email address or street address you have provided. The AAA's rules and filing instructions are available at www.adr.org or by calling 1-800-778-7879.
Any and all proceedings to resolve Claims will be conducted only on an individual basis and not in a class, consolidated or representative action. If for any reason a Claim proceeds in court rather than in arbitration, we each waive any right to a jury trial. The Federal Arbitration Act and federal arbitration law apply to this agreement. An arbitration decision may be confirmed by any court with competent jurisdiction.
Orbitz is committed to customer satisfaction, so if you have a problem or dispute, we will try to resolve your concerns. But if we are unsuccessful, you may pursue claims as explained in this section.
You agree to give us an opportunity to resolve any disputes or claims relating in any way to the Services, any dealings with our customer service agents, any services or products provided, any representations made by us, or our Privacy Policy ("Claims") by contacting "Orbitz Legal: Arbitration Claim Manager", at 333 108th Ave N.E. Bellevue, WA 98004. If we are not able to resolve your Claims within 60 days, you may seek relief through arbitration or in small claims court, as set forth below.
Any and all Claims will be resolved by binding arbitration, rather than in court, except you may assert Claims on an individual basis in small claims court if they qualify. This includes any Claims you assert against us, our subsidiaries, travel suppliers or any companies offering products or services through us, including Suppliers, (which are beneficiaries of this arbitration agreement). This also includes any Claims that arose before you accepted these Terms, regardless of whether prior versions of the Terms required arbitration.
There is no judge or jury in arbitration, and court review of an arbitration award is limited. However, an arbitrator can award on an individual basis the same damages and relief as a court (including statutory damages, attorneys’ fees and costs), and must follow and enforce these Terms as a court would.
Arbitrations will be conducted by the American Arbitration Association (AAA) under its rules, including the AAA Consumer Rules. Payment of all filing, administration and arbitrator fees will be governed by the AAA's rules, except as provided in this section. If your total Claims seek less than $10,000, we will reimburse you for filing fees you pay to the AAA and will pay arbitrator’s fees. You may choose to have an arbitration conducted by telephone, based on written submissions, or in person in the state where you live or at another mutually agreed location.
To begin an arbitration proceeding, you must send a letter requesting arbitration and describing your Claims to "Orbitz Legal: Arbitration Claim Manager", at 333 108th Ave N.E. Bellevue, WA 98004. If we request arbitration against you, we will give you notice at the email address or street address you have provided. The AAA's rules and filing instructions are available at www.adr.org or by calling 1-800-778-7879.
Any and all proceedings to resolve Claims will be conducted only on an individual basis and not in a class, consolidated or representative action. If for any reason a Claim proceeds in court rather than in arbitration, we each waive any right to a jury trial. The Federal Arbitration Act and federal arbitration law apply to this agreement. An arbitration decision may be confirmed by any court with competent jurisdiction.
Apr 13th, 2016, 04:46 AM
#26
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If I'm following Orbitz's somewhat badly worded email, you were supposed to get an email from Allianz confirming the policy. Presumably you didn't get that email and Orbitz is now arguing that it was your responsibility to follow up with them on a timely basis when you didn't. Admittedly, however, that's just my interpretation of their email to you, which isn't particularly clear.
To Odin's point, though, did you every actually look at a policy or did you rely strictly on the policy confirmation number that Orbitz provided you? While I also bring my policy with me when I travel, if nothing else, I also open it when I get an email confirmation from my insurer to verify that it reflects the product I actually purchased.
I know it's probably really frustrating to hear strangers on the internet quiz you about your own due diligence, but if nothing else, these questions will help prepare you if you continue to pursue the claim against Orbitz.
To Odin's point, though, did you every actually look at a policy or did you rely strictly on the policy confirmation number that Orbitz provided you? While I also bring my policy with me when I travel, if nothing else, I also open it when I get an email confirmation from my insurer to verify that it reflects the product I actually purchased.
I know it's probably really frustrating to hear strangers on the internet quiz you about your own due diligence, but if nothing else, these questions will help prepare you if you continue to pursue the claim against Orbitz.
Apr 13th, 2016, 05:22 AM
#27
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All of this discussion, including questions and advice, will at least be helpful to others and a reminder to check and double check every bill, confirmation, schedule, etc.
It would be easy to overlook changes on a schedule, especially accidental ones, or a mistake on a date, or spelling of a name.
So, good luck to you and thanks for posting about it.
It would be easy to overlook changes on a schedule, especially accidental ones, or a mistake on a date, or spelling of a name.
So, good luck to you and thanks for posting about it.
Apr 13th, 2016, 09:16 AM
#28
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indyhiker - thanks for posting the info from Orbitz's site. And yes, your interpretation of the email is correct. They are saying that because I should have known to look for an email within 24 hours of ticket purchase (that never came), I am the responsible one.
Perhaps I could have been more diligent in re-checking everything. Luckily in past travels I have never had to use travel insurance. I always got the confirmation, etc - kept it in my email and went about my life. I would always get insurance with the obvious hope that I would never actually need it.
Although some may say I should just give up and walk away, as a paying customer to a prominent business, I see it differently. If a company is committed to customer service, THEY would be diligent in ensuring their system works correctly and that everything is in order for their customer. I chose to book my trip with Orbitz trusting them to book me on a flight and provide my trip insurance. I checked all the right boxes and had the right confirmation after booking. To expect a busy person who has trusted a company with their services to then double check everything is a bit ridiculous. Yes, many people do double check but that doesn't mean it should be the standard. Their system screwed up - plain and simple. The error is clearly on THEIR end. I should not be held responsible for that.
Perhaps I could have been more diligent in re-checking everything. Luckily in past travels I have never had to use travel insurance. I always got the confirmation, etc - kept it in my email and went about my life. I would always get insurance with the obvious hope that I would never actually need it.
Although some may say I should just give up and walk away, as a paying customer to a prominent business, I see it differently. If a company is committed to customer service, THEY would be diligent in ensuring their system works correctly and that everything is in order for their customer. I chose to book my trip with Orbitz trusting them to book me on a flight and provide my trip insurance. I checked all the right boxes and had the right confirmation after booking. To expect a busy person who has trusted a company with their services to then double check everything is a bit ridiculous. Yes, many people do double check but that doesn't mean it should be the standard. Their system screwed up - plain and simple. The error is clearly on THEIR end. I should not be held responsible for that.
Apr 13th, 2016, 10:15 AM
#30
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Responders here have given you their opinions, both positive and negatives - you are now at the point you are now at the point that you have to decide to take further action or simply walk away. Remember though, it doesn't matter what you FEEL or what you or the contributors on a Travel Forum THINK it matters only WHAT YOU CAN PROVE. This may turn out to be your biggest hurdle since you never paid for nor received the actual "Travel Policy".
If you choose to pursue the matter in Small Claims Court or through Arbitration (as per the procedures outlined in indyhiker's post) you'd be wise to first research the procedures for filing a Small Claims Case in your state - google "Small Claims Court NAME OF STATE" and you should find a link that outlines the requirements/procedures to help you determine whether or not you have a cause of action. The website will probably also have a section that outlines what documentation you may need to bolster your case. Study the information carefully and get your ducks in a row - many a case has been lost by poor or inadequate preparation.
Good Luck and I hope whatever you decide brings you some peace of mind.
If you choose to pursue the matter in Small Claims Court or through Arbitration (as per the procedures outlined in indyhiker's post) you'd be wise to first research the procedures for filing a Small Claims Case in your state - google "Small Claims Court NAME OF STATE" and you should find a link that outlines the requirements/procedures to help you determine whether or not you have a cause of action. The website will probably also have a section that outlines what documentation you may need to bolster your case. Study the information carefully and get your ducks in a row - many a case has been lost by poor or inadequate preparation.
Good Luck and I hope whatever you decide brings you some peace of mind.
Apr 13th, 2016, 03:09 PM
#31
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Thanks for the advice RoamsAround
We do plan to send them an official letter and start the legal process. It's not just about the money lost! Will still update this thread for those interested.
Thanks for all the responses!
We do plan to send them an official letter and start the legal process. It's not just about the money lost! Will still update this thread for those interested.
Thanks for all the responses!
Apr 19th, 2016, 04:33 AM
#32
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Hello again.
Thanks for the update.
NoFlyZone has pointed out that the agent/broker was 'working for' as in, paid by, the supplier. (NoFlyZone, thank you, but in that case can you suggest a proper term for Orbitz - the supplier agent?) Anyway: The supplier of course in the normal instance, is in turn paid by monies forwarded through the supplier agent/broker from the customer, you.
The agent/broker did not receive any commission from the supplier, because the supplier never received payment, because one of those parties never processed the transaction on your CC.
It would be interesting to determine whether Orbitz has any obligation to the consumer at all in this instance. Outfits like Orbitz normally undertake to forward CC details to the airlines in the event of airfares being purchased, so could there be an argument that a 'reasonable person' might expect that Orbitz would ensure that payment details for other products handled by Orbitz would get processed - and if not, to follow up or at least inform the consumer that information is incomplete, or that the CC was rejected, or whatever. Orbitz is in the information business, and it seems you got incomplete information from them. What exactly does the 'confirmation' number confirm?
The really sticky part is that given no money actually changed hands, to what extent is anyone other than the consumer on the hook.
I think you need to write to one of those travel ombudsmen.
As a 'next time': This is why I've all but given up going through third parties, and transact business directly with the supplier.
Thanks for the update.
NoFlyZone has pointed out that the agent/broker was 'working for' as in, paid by, the supplier. (NoFlyZone, thank you, but in that case can you suggest a proper term for Orbitz - the supplier agent?) Anyway: The supplier of course in the normal instance, is in turn paid by monies forwarded through the supplier agent/broker from the customer, you.
The agent/broker did not receive any commission from the supplier, because the supplier never received payment, because one of those parties never processed the transaction on your CC.
It would be interesting to determine whether Orbitz has any obligation to the consumer at all in this instance. Outfits like Orbitz normally undertake to forward CC details to the airlines in the event of airfares being purchased, so could there be an argument that a 'reasonable person' might expect that Orbitz would ensure that payment details for other products handled by Orbitz would get processed - and if not, to follow up or at least inform the consumer that information is incomplete, or that the CC was rejected, or whatever. Orbitz is in the information business, and it seems you got incomplete information from them. What exactly does the 'confirmation' number confirm?
The really sticky part is that given no money actually changed hands, to what extent is anyone other than the consumer on the hook.
I think you need to write to one of those travel ombudsmen.
As a 'next time': This is why I've all but given up going through third parties, and transact business directly with the supplier.
Apr 19th, 2016, 05:04 AM
#33
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I agree and that I would try one of the travel ombudsman first. I follow them and I have seen them get results in situations like you are in and thank you and I also am continuing to follow this
Apr 24th, 2016, 10:01 AM
#34
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Thanks for the suggestion to contact a travel ombudsman - will need to look further into that. We did put all our information together, write a letter, and then have a local lawyer edit and approve the letter before sending off to Orbitz's legal and head of council.
The lawyer believes we should be able to recover our money from Orbitz and that they are at fault. The lawyer also said that money being exchanged or not does not matter - we consented to pay for the insurance and therefore entered into a contact where they should have provided it to us.
So the insurance number we received was an actual policy number once we booked tickets - with a link to show our coverage. We also got another email on March 10th (a few days before we left) with travel details including our travel insurance policy. I would screen shot to show you but I'm not sure how to do attachments? The email is certainly convincing that we have no reason to believe something was amiss...
The lawyer believes we should be able to recover our money from Orbitz and that they are at fault. The lawyer also said that money being exchanged or not does not matter - we consented to pay for the insurance and therefore entered into a contact where they should have provided it to us.
So the insurance number we received was an actual policy number once we booked tickets - with a link to show our coverage. We also got another email on March 10th (a few days before we left) with travel details including our travel insurance policy. I would screen shot to show you but I'm not sure how to do attachments? The email is certainly convincing that we have no reason to believe something was amiss...
Apr 24th, 2016, 02:12 PM
#36
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Good luck indeed. I hope you report results in your favor. However when in comes to money things can get weird. You would think life blood is being sacrificed and you just have to get for lack of a better word "insistent."
A few yrs. ago I used valet parking at the hospital for my PT visits after knee surgery. Well bam! my car had a huge hole in the front bumper. The guy who parked it had also parked it before and inspected it then to check for damages and told me so. Well this time he said he was "tired". There are many other details too numerous to list but it was clear something was fishy. The valet companies insurance disallowed my claim! So I told them what the hospital rep told me, that they would consider how they handled this when it came time to renew their contract and I sternly told them if they did not cover it I would escalate this to the hospital CEO while focusing on the mumbo-jumbo the valet said. My case was strong. They ended up seeing it my way but at first they deny it and hope you cave in.
Kick their butts.
A few yrs. ago I used valet parking at the hospital for my PT visits after knee surgery. Well bam! my car had a huge hole in the front bumper. The guy who parked it had also parked it before and inspected it then to check for damages and told me so. Well this time he said he was "tired". There are many other details too numerous to list but it was clear something was fishy. The valet companies insurance disallowed my claim! So I told them what the hospital rep told me, that they would consider how they handled this when it came time to renew their contract and I sternly told them if they did not cover it I would escalate this to the hospital CEO while focusing on the mumbo-jumbo the valet said. My case was strong. They ended up seeing it my way but at first they deny it and hope you cave in.
Kick their butts.
Apr 25th, 2016, 06:46 PM
#38
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jacketwatch - that is such a crappy situation to be in! Very happy to hear it worked out in your favor. I definitely think all these companies just deny you at first and hope you give up and go away. The longer time passes, the more likely the average person will lose steam and passion over the issue and these companies know that! It's why they string you along. It's absolutely wrong!
Apr 26th, 2016, 09:57 AM
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Yes ... and if you see my recent KLM post regarding a refund, you will also see that it goes on in many areas. They do string you along, hoping you will fall by the wayside. I have pretty much given up on mine - but of course it is way less than you have lost. I wish you the best!
(I posted on FB, as suggested by another Fodorite, and KLM responded, requiring even more than before! A full page list of details including a copy of my credit card bill, ticket numbers, reservation numbers, routing numbers (?) and a lot more stuff it would have taken me hours to compile. Don't you think they should have a record of my initial reservation and payment? I'm done. Over it.)
Good luck to you - I hope you are successful!
(I posted on FB, as suggested by another Fodorite, and KLM responded, requiring even more than before! A full page list of details including a copy of my credit card bill, ticket numbers, reservation numbers, routing numbers (?) and a lot more stuff it would have taken me hours to compile. Don't you think they should have a record of my initial reservation and payment? I'm done. Over it.)
Good luck to you - I hope you are successful!
