FA layoffs at AA
Jul 2nd, 2008, 01:05 PM
#1
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FA layoffs at AA
Jul 3rd, 2008, 03:43 PM
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AA merging with BA -God forbid! BA (AKA Bloody Awful) is one of the worst airlines around. Can you imagine that you cannot get a seat assignment (not even in Business class) until 24 hrs before the flight (online)or at check in time. How would you like to sit in a middle section for a 12 -13 hour flight when you bought the tickets 11 months before?
Jul 3rd, 2008, 05:53 PM
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That is correct - call BA.
You can get a seat assigned at the time of purchase only in first class or high level BA FF (whatever it is called). AA Gold (over million miles doesn't count) - I've been there more than once. I am flying LHR - JNB (11 hrs) and DEL - LHR (10 hrs) in business and cannot get a seat assignment until online check in 24 hrs before the flight.
You can get a seat assigned at the time of purchase only in first class or high level BA FF (whatever it is called). AA Gold (over million miles doesn't count) - I've been there more than once. I am flying LHR - JNB (11 hrs) and DEL - LHR (10 hrs) in business and cannot get a seat assignment until online check in 24 hrs before the flight.
Jul 3rd, 2008, 08:02 PM
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Yes indeed. We are flying from Heathrow to Nice and must wait until check-in to get a seat assignment in the equivalent of business class. Fortunately it's a short flight, but still...
I wish we could return to the good old days of BOAC, when even coach was comfortable and pleasant.
I wish we could return to the good old days of BOAC, when even coach was comfortable and pleasant.
Jul 3rd, 2008, 10:54 PM
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"How can an American-owned airline merge with a foreign-owned one?"
In just the same way as a Dutch airline can merge with a French one. The story's currently in every serious business newspaper (ie they're all repeating the story in yestersday's FT).
Confronted with the alternative of a major airline going out of business, even the most protectionist regulators can - and will - find a way of preserving bits of the service and some jobs.
The ultimate obstacle isn't ownwership regulations, but the stranglehold the merged airline could have on key North Atlantic routes - especially London-New York. The interesting question is what routes the regulators - in the UK, in the US and in a lot of other countries too - will force BAA (now there's an interesting name to give it) to shed.
Expect a miniboom in the competition lawyering business.
In just the same way as a Dutch airline can merge with a French one. The story's currently in every serious business newspaper (ie they're all repeating the story in yestersday's FT).
Confronted with the alternative of a major airline going out of business, even the most protectionist regulators can - and will - find a way of preserving bits of the service and some jobs.
The ultimate obstacle isn't ownwership regulations, but the stranglehold the merged airline could have on key North Atlantic routes - especially London-New York. The interesting question is what routes the regulators - in the UK, in the US and in a lot of other countries too - will force BAA (now there's an interesting name to give it) to shed.
Expect a miniboom in the competition lawyering business.
Jul 3rd, 2008, 11:22 PM
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It's totally untrue that you cannot ever get seats assigned on BA business class or full economy. If the flight is full then it might be so that seat assignment is only available at the airport.
Same with the LHRNCE on BA in business class (no idea what the "equivalent of business class" is-it is either business class or not.) Advance seat assignment is definitely possible but could be all the pre-assignable seats are taken for that flight/date.
There are alternative airlines that fly LHRJNB and to DEL such as Virgin if indeed BA is so Bloody Awful.
Same with the LHRNCE on BA in business class (no idea what the "equivalent of business class" is-it is either business class or not.) Advance seat assignment is definitely possible but could be all the pre-assignable seats are taken for that flight/date.
There are alternative airlines that fly LHRJNB and to DEL such as Virgin if indeed BA is so Bloody Awful.
Jul 4th, 2008, 02:29 AM
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<i>In just the same way as a Dutch airline can merge with a French one.</i>
Not really. What BA and AA are reportedly discussing is not a merger, like AF/KLM. They are discussing applying for anti-trust immunity, in order to operate their trans-Atlantic flights as a joint venture. Under such a scenario, they would coordinate their schedules and share costs and revenues on trans-Atlantic routes. This is a very far cry from a merger.
<i>It's totally untrue that you cannot ever get seats assigned on BA business class or full economy.</i>
Well, it isn't as impossible as the OP claimed, but there are significant restrictions. For long-haul flights, most business class fares do not count for assigned seating; only full-fare tickets do. I can see the point of being upset at not being able to assign your seats after you have dropped $3k+ on a ticket.
Not really. What BA and AA are reportedly discussing is not a merger, like AF/KLM. They are discussing applying for anti-trust immunity, in order to operate their trans-Atlantic flights as a joint venture. Under such a scenario, they would coordinate their schedules and share costs and revenues on trans-Atlantic routes. This is a very far cry from a merger.
<i>It's totally untrue that you cannot ever get seats assigned on BA business class or full economy.</i>
Well, it isn't as impossible as the OP claimed, but there are significant restrictions. For long-haul flights, most business class fares do not count for assigned seating; only full-fare tickets do. I can see the point of being upset at not being able to assign your seats after you have dropped $3k+ on a ticket.
Jul 4th, 2008, 02:41 AM
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We don't know what BA and AA are discussing. Or rather, anyone on this board who DOES know is likely to find themselves in a US jail if they tell us. IF you can really call telling a web chatroom the contents of price-sensitive talks "insider trading"?
But UK reports (eg in The Times) are of a lot more than a few coordinated transatlantic schedules. The Times talks of "the companies to combine nearly all aspects of their operations, including sales, purchasing and marketing"
Obviously, a conventional merger's not on the cards: but then AF/KLM wasn't a conventional merger either. But, as the last 300 years of capitalism have shown, there's any number of ways to run legally separate companies as if they were one.
But UK reports (eg in The Times) are of a lot more than a few coordinated transatlantic schedules. The Times talks of "the companies to combine nearly all aspects of their operations, including sales, purchasing and marketing"
Obviously, a conventional merger's not on the cards: but then AF/KLM wasn't a conventional merger either. But, as the last 300 years of capitalism have shown, there's any number of ways to run legally separate companies as if they were one.
Jul 4th, 2008, 05:23 AM
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<i>But UK reports (eg in The Times) are of a lot more than a few coordinated transatlantic schedules.</i>
First off, the Times ain't much of a paper, so I wouldn't put too much stock in it, particularly when it doesn't jive with reports from the WSJ or FT. I would think that the Times report is perhaps just missing clarification that the tie-ups they mention are for TATL operations.
Second, an immunized JV, like that reported in the business press, is a heck of a lot more than a few coordinated TATL schedules. The Northwest-KLM JV extends to full cost-sharing, full cross-selling, and even (I believe) cross-staffing.
The distinction between a JV and a merger is also important, because of what it does not bring to AA. It doesn't bring them additional capital. It doesn't allow BA to cover operational costs beyond the contractural terms of the JV. And BA assumes no responsiblity for AA's debt or other obligations.
First off, the Times ain't much of a paper, so I wouldn't put too much stock in it, particularly when it doesn't jive with reports from the WSJ or FT. I would think that the Times report is perhaps just missing clarification that the tie-ups they mention are for TATL operations.
Second, an immunized JV, like that reported in the business press, is a heck of a lot more than a few coordinated TATL schedules. The Northwest-KLM JV extends to full cost-sharing, full cross-selling, and even (I believe) cross-staffing.
The distinction between a JV and a merger is also important, because of what it does not bring to AA. It doesn't bring them additional capital. It doesn't allow BA to cover operational costs beyond the contractural terms of the JV. And BA assumes no responsiblity for AA's debt or other obligations.
Jul 4th, 2008, 06:37 AM
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The reality is finally starting to sink in.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7489483.stm
Maybe AA will start it's own rail service for short haul flights.
Jul 4th, 2008, 09:17 AM
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Dear Odin,
I beg to differ.
The flights cannot be full as I ALWAYS book flights 330 days in advance (as soon as they are open for booking). They cannot possibly be full on these long haul flights where they have a lot of business class seats.In fact, I have just put in a request for 8 business class tickets for each of my segmnets and I could have purchased them. Who knows how many more seats they have available.
How many seats are "pre assignable" ? It would seem that there aren't any more than 2 or 3, otherwise I could have gotten an assigned seat. This is not the first time I have encountered this on BA. Unfortunately, I am stuck with them when I fly internationally for points as I am an AA FF.
I beg to differ.
The flights cannot be full as I ALWAYS book flights 330 days in advance (as soon as they are open for booking). They cannot possibly be full on these long haul flights where they have a lot of business class seats.In fact, I have just put in a request for 8 business class tickets for each of my segmnets and I could have purchased them. Who knows how many more seats they have available.
How many seats are "pre assignable" ? It would seem that there aren't any more than 2 or 3, otherwise I could have gotten an assigned seat. This is not the first time I have encountered this on BA. Unfortunately, I am stuck with them when I fly internationally for points as I am an AA FF.
Jul 4th, 2008, 10:23 AM
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travelgourmet,
I do have a Gold status with AA (over million miles) -that's apparently not good enough for BA. You would have to be Exec/Plat/Emerald or something like that.
You don't need ANY status with just about any other airline in the civilized world to get a seat assignment in business class (and I have done so)- only with BA.
I do have a Gold status with AA (over million miles) -that's apparently not good enough for BA. You would have to be Exec/Plat/Emerald or something like that.
You don't need ANY status with just about any other airline in the civilized world to get a seat assignment in business class (and I have done so)- only with BA.
Jul 4th, 2008, 11:47 AM
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<i>You don't need ANY status with just about any other airline in the civilized world to get a seat assignment in business class (and I have done so)- only with BA.</i>
Sure, and I think you have a legit gripe. But, I would say that I am always amazed at how many choices there are for seats when you check in with BA. I've even found two seats together on the upper deck, even checking in at the airport. And this was on a flight oversold in biz.
I agree it isn't cool, but I don't think it is that awful.
Sure, and I think you have a legit gripe. But, I would say that I am always amazed at how many choices there are for seats when you check in with BA. I've even found two seats together on the upper deck, even checking in at the airport. And this was on a flight oversold in biz.
I agree it isn't cool, but I don't think it is that awful.
Jul 4th, 2008, 12:17 PM
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travelgourmet,
It's good to hear that there might be choices - I hope.
I would, however, not like to sit separate from my wife; nor would I like to sit in the middle section on lower deck. Sure - I'll have a seat, but I would like to have a seat of my choice and I don't think that is too much to ask. If I take the trouble to plan 11 months in advance, I should have a seat of my choice and not what is "left over".
It's good to hear that there might be choices - I hope.
I would, however, not like to sit separate from my wife; nor would I like to sit in the middle section on lower deck. Sure - I'll have a seat, but I would like to have a seat of my choice and I don't think that is too much to ask. If I take the trouble to plan 11 months in advance, I should have a seat of my choice and not what is "left over".
