A new Air India?
Sep 14th, 2023, 06:13 AM
#1
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A new Air India?
As some of you may know the TATA group which had owned air India bought it back from the government around a year ago. They have made promises to greatly improve the plans and the quality of service
they have already begun a new plane designs, which I think look more colorful, and upscale. In addition, I have seen what they are, adding, at least on some flights chefs to oversee the food served.
they have ordered around 500 new planes have plans to hire over 4000 new flight attendants and 900 pilots. These are certainly big steps in the right direction.
I for one look forward to observing how this attempt to turn things around or result in. My bed is on TATA to succeed.
they have already begun a new plane designs, which I think look more colorful, and upscale. In addition, I have seen what they are, adding, at least on some flights chefs to oversee the food served.
they have ordered around 500 new planes have plans to hire over 4000 new flight attendants and 900 pilots. These are certainly big steps in the right direction.
I for one look forward to observing how this attempt to turn things around or result in. My bed is on TATA to succeed.
Last edited by jacketwatch; Sep 14th, 2023 at 06:36 AM.
Sep 23rd, 2023, 02:41 PM
#3
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Some will be inservice by then. I do not know what routes they will have.
TATA has been highly successful in business. Did you know they own Jaguar and Land Rover?
I'll be watching them.
Jan 8th, 2024, 05:33 AM
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[QUOTE=patandhank;17523934]I’m going to try to get my ticket with mileage and I think my timeframe to start checking is coming up pretty soon. I’m flying into New Delhi and out of Mumbai. Keeping my fingers crossed![/QUOTE
Good luck!
Where are U flying from may I ask?
Good luck!
Where are U flying from may I ask?
Jan 9th, 2024, 03:39 PM
#7
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I live in Phoenix, but my initial looking shows Newark might be better than SFO. I sometimes do two separate tickets because trying to get a multi city from Phoenix is a real pain.
I like using Matrix or Google flights (same) for ideas.
I like using Matrix or Google flights (same) for ideas.
Jan 9th, 2024, 05:12 PM
#8
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In 2017 using miles (UA) we got biz from LAX-SYD but could not get that from where we live, Chicago to Sydney so we got a separate flight ORD-LAX. Sometimes the connections just don’t work.
Jan 10th, 2024, 01:59 PM
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I've done some looking today. I need to fly into New Delhi (DEL) and out of Mumbai (BOM). Trying to use United Milage. The leg out of Mumbai is the toughest and I finally did see flights I could get if I went BOM - DEL and then the next day DEL to EWR. Milage: 540,000 miles for business class! Cost of ticket with cash roughly $18,000!!!
I don't know if it will get better or worse if I wait.
I don't know if it will get better or worse if I wait.
Jan 10th, 2024, 07:15 PM
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I've done some looking today. I need to fly into New Delhi (DEL) and out of Mumbai (BOM). Trying to use United Milage. The leg out of Mumbai is the toughest and I finally did see flights I could get if I went BOM - DEL and then the next day DEL to EWR. Milage: 540,000 miles for business class! Cost of ticket with cash roughly $18,000!!!
I don't know if it will get better or worse if I wait.
I don't know if it will get better or worse if I wait.
Friends of ours got a great deal on biz on this site ORD-DEL.
It may be worth a call.
Your cash price as well as the miles is very high.
Good luck
Last edited by jacketwatch; Jan 10th, 2024 at 07:17 PM.
Jan 11th, 2024, 07:21 AM
#11
I've done some looking today. I need to fly into New Delhi (DEL) and out of Mumbai (BOM). Trying to use United Milage. The leg out of Mumbai is the toughest and I finally did see flights I could get if I went BOM - DEL and then the next day DEL to EWR. Milage: 540,000 miles for business class! Cost of ticket with cash roughly $18,000!!!
I don't know if it will get better or worse if I wait.
I don't know if it will get better or worse if I wait.
If you don't mind saying, what airline(s) are your miles with and how many do you have?
It's only a rule of thumb and there's no widespread agreement on this, but it's common (I use it) to "value" your miles at 2c each when deciding when to spend them for tickets. Thus 540K miles would have a "breakeven" value of $10,800. And most airlines would also add some cash requirement on top of the miles "cost," usually for taxes and fees. If you were to value your miles at 1.5c each, then the breakeven cost would be $8100, and so on.
The question about whether things will get cheaper if you wait is very hard to answer. Airlines release seats into award inventory throughout the 11- to 12-month booking window, when and if their very complicated (and secret) revenue algorithms say they could/should. Short of possessing a PhD from Hogwarts, we mere mortals don't stand a chance of outguessing the robots. The same goes, more or less, for cash fares. Sometimes fares listed early in the booking cycle (like now for travel this autumn) are pegged at more expensive levels as a hedge against the airlines' own internal costs spiking in the meantime (fuel prices, global events etc.) The closer to the flight date the prices MIGHT come down, up until the last few weeks before the flight, when they'll likely head back up and stay there.
If it was me, I'd probably wait until sometime this spring. I'd also keep an eye out for deals originating in Europe; often the business class prices from western Europe to India can be fairly reasonable, and October can be a decent time for either paid or award availability to Europe from the US.
Keep an eye on this board at Flyertalk while you're at it - Premium Fare Deals - FlyerTalk Forums . The FT wonks often find good fares before anyone else.
I would also hesitate looking for "consolidator" or cheap fares through third parties. The risks of getting hooked with a mileage broker or other unsavory party are too high with this much money on the table.
Jan 11th, 2024, 03:29 PM
#12
1) Try looking for an one-way award ticket to India and a one-way fare for the return. Also, try the opposite: money outbound, miles return, but don't be too hopeful.
2) I assume you are buying multiple tickets. Search for the price for 1 passenger to get a baseline, then search for 2 and again for each additional passenger. You might find that the cost of 4 is more than four times the cost of 1 and/or more than double the cost of two.
Possibly interesting stories behind those two points:
1) On flyertalk (under Miles & Points, Premium Fare Deals), I have seen bargain fares for one-way travel to the USA. I had a United award to Japan in business class (80,000 miles, woulda been happier at 70,000 miles but ok). Then I saw (on FT) a one-way fare back to the USA for $1600 which I was willing to pay (woulda been happier at $1500 or less), but happy because it was refundable with a 30,000 yen penalty ($220 at the time). So, I valued (was willing to pay) one-way at 80,000 miles and the other way at $1600 which, as it turns out, means I valued the miles at 2 cents each. Worth it becuse I could cancel both tickets without getting hurt too much (entire trip was on Asiana), otherwise I tend to think a mile is worth a penny or 1.5c (because money is more useful for buying things like a Big Mac). (in 2016, I saw on flyertalk, and jumped on, a roundtrip to Japan for $2700 on ANA and was hoping to get closer to that)
I had an award ticket in business class to Thailand on Cathay and found a good one-way return fare $1890 on SQ that the flyertalkers deemed not good enough. I didn't like the no-refund policy and found a $2250 fully refundable fare. I ended up canceling both.
2) I wanted two domestic-NZ tickets. Found the fare for 1 and then searched for 2. The fare for 2 was more than double. It was as if, maybe actually, the 1-ticket booking was in one fare bucket but the 2-ticket booking would both be at a a higher fare bucket. I bought 1 ticket booking and then booked the second ticket at fare that was at half the 2-ticket booking. To further over-explain, it was like this: book 1 ticket pay $100 or book 2 tickets pay $400. Instead, I made two 1-ticket bookings, one for $100 and the second one for $200.
That $18,000 fare is "imaginary" if it is only for one person (or two). They put that out there because the market for those tickets is not yet open - they don't have customers or competition or costs worked out yet. So they throw out that full fare price as a placeholder. Something like that.
2) I assume you are buying multiple tickets. Search for the price for 1 passenger to get a baseline, then search for 2 and again for each additional passenger. You might find that the cost of 4 is more than four times the cost of 1 and/or more than double the cost of two.
Possibly interesting stories behind those two points:
1) On flyertalk (under Miles & Points, Premium Fare Deals), I have seen bargain fares for one-way travel to the USA. I had a United award to Japan in business class (80,000 miles, woulda been happier at 70,000 miles but ok). Then I saw (on FT) a one-way fare back to the USA for $1600 which I was willing to pay (woulda been happier at $1500 or less), but happy because it was refundable with a 30,000 yen penalty ($220 at the time). So, I valued (was willing to pay) one-way at 80,000 miles and the other way at $1600 which, as it turns out, means I valued the miles at 2 cents each. Worth it becuse I could cancel both tickets without getting hurt too much (entire trip was on Asiana), otherwise I tend to think a mile is worth a penny or 1.5c (because money is more useful for buying things like a Big Mac). (in 2016, I saw on flyertalk, and jumped on, a roundtrip to Japan for $2700 on ANA and was hoping to get closer to that)
I had an award ticket in business class to Thailand on Cathay and found a good one-way return fare $1890 on SQ that the flyertalkers deemed not good enough. I didn't like the no-refund policy and found a $2250 fully refundable fare. I ended up canceling both.
2) I wanted two domestic-NZ tickets. Found the fare for 1 and then searched for 2. The fare for 2 was more than double. It was as if, maybe actually, the 1-ticket booking was in one fare bucket but the 2-ticket booking would both be at a a higher fare bucket. I bought 1 ticket booking and then booked the second ticket at fare that was at half the 2-ticket booking. To further over-explain, it was like this: book 1 ticket pay $100 or book 2 tickets pay $400. Instead, I made two 1-ticket bookings, one for $100 and the second one for $200.
That $18,000 fare is "imaginary" if it is only for one person (or two). They put that out there because the market for those tickets is not yet open - they don't have customers or competition or costs worked out yet. So they throw out that full fare price as a placeholder. Something like that.
Last edited by mrwunrfl; Jan 11th, 2024 at 03:43 PM.
Jan 12th, 2024, 05:11 AM
#13
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[Gardyloo - Are those miles/dollars for one ticket or two? Three?
If you don't mind saying, what airline(s) are your miles with and how many do you have?]
Don't mind at all -
Looking for 1 ticket only.
Mileage: Approx 595,000 miles with United Airlines Mileage Plus and approximately 143,000 miles with American Airlines. I've also got points with Chase I could convert to UA, but I think what I have should be enough. You would think!
I'm not too keen on booking with anyone other than airlines directly. Years ago some friends used Expedia or Orbitz (don't remember which) on our joint trip to Africa (I used FF milage then) and they had some real issues with their tickets. I too have heard a lot of horror stories on consolidators.
I know when I did my FF tickets to Africa I selected a less than desired route and carrier and then just kept checking and eventually was able to change the tickets to a route/carrier we wanted.
I appreciate all the suggestions. Everyone's input has certainly given me some ideas. It's been quite some time since I've even booked FF tickets as I typically bank them to use for some really costly trip - although anymore I think they are all getting costly. So when I decided to see India I figured it was a good time.
If you don't mind saying, what airline(s) are your miles with and how many do you have?]
Don't mind at all -
Looking for 1 ticket only.
Mileage: Approx 595,000 miles with United Airlines Mileage Plus and approximately 143,000 miles with American Airlines. I've also got points with Chase I could convert to UA, but I think what I have should be enough. You would think!
I'm not too keen on booking with anyone other than airlines directly. Years ago some friends used Expedia or Orbitz (don't remember which) on our joint trip to Africa (I used FF milage then) and they had some real issues with their tickets. I too have heard a lot of horror stories on consolidators.
I know when I did my FF tickets to Africa I selected a less than desired route and carrier and then just kept checking and eventually was able to change the tickets to a route/carrier we wanted.
I appreciate all the suggestions. Everyone's input has certainly given me some ideas. It's been quite some time since I've even booked FF tickets as I typically bank them to use for some really costly trip - although anymore I think they are all getting costly. So when I decided to see India I figured it was a good time.
Last edited by patandhank; Jan 12th, 2024 at 05:13 AM. Reason: Clean up look
Jan 12th, 2024, 07:08 AM
#14
Thanks for the information.
For the sake of comparison/argument, as of today you could fly round trip in business class on Singapore Airlines from San Francisco to Delhi in October (stop in Singapore both ways, duh) for $3622. If you were willing to fly in coach (or use miles) to get to SFO from Phoenix (and back) the "positioning" cost would be minimal. Likewise, a one-way "positioning" flight from Mumbai to Delhi at the end of the trip would cost around US$65, so not a deal breaker.
I think the high mileage prices and the high cash prices you're seeing now reflect that it's too early in the booking cycle to see competitive pricing using either "currency." Patience will probably see things improve, but of course no promises.
I just went on United's website and looked at availability from PHX to DEL in October, and found a number of days where a business class itinerary could be booked one way for 145K - 175K United miles (depending on date and route.) I could also see one-way BOM to PHX around three weeks later in the same price range, although fewer route options than from DEL. You'd need to be flexible on dates, and be prepared for longish layovers - possibly overnight - in both directions, e.g. in Chicago or Newark outbound, or in Tokyo or Seoul on the return. But doable.
For the sake of comparison/argument, as of today you could fly round trip in business class on Singapore Airlines from San Francisco to Delhi in October (stop in Singapore both ways, duh) for $3622. If you were willing to fly in coach (or use miles) to get to SFO from Phoenix (and back) the "positioning" cost would be minimal. Likewise, a one-way "positioning" flight from Mumbai to Delhi at the end of the trip would cost around US$65, so not a deal breaker.
I think the high mileage prices and the high cash prices you're seeing now reflect that it's too early in the booking cycle to see competitive pricing using either "currency." Patience will probably see things improve, but of course no promises.
I just went on United's website and looked at availability from PHX to DEL in October, and found a number of days where a business class itinerary could be booked one way for 145K - 175K United miles (depending on date and route.) I could also see one-way BOM to PHX around three weeks later in the same price range, although fewer route options than from DEL. You'd need to be flexible on dates, and be prepared for longish layovers - possibly overnight - in both directions, e.g. in Chicago or Newark outbound, or in Tokyo or Seoul on the return. But doable.
Jan 13th, 2024, 05:47 AM
#15
The high prices afre probably due to the conditions you have on the ticket, lke carrier and number of of stops. If you reject certain airlines or two-stop itineraries then you will likely pay more. Be sure that your searches use NYC - All Airports and not just EWR. That way you will see flights from JFK and EWR.
There are business class award tickets at United on most days for 88K one way from NYC to DEL. Use the calendar. Some of the dates have tickets for 88k miles but with two stops and/or are on Egyptaifr or Ethiopian.
Do the search for 1 passenger and use the 30-day calendar.
The calendar shows the lowest cost in miles + taxes. For NYC-->DEL you will see mileage cost of 88k miles for many. That amount, 88k, means the itinerary includes at least one partner carrier. If the amount is 80k then the flight is on United. The minimum amount for taxes looks to be $5.60 for a nonstop.
If you see 88k + $5.60 then it is Air India nonstop. They also have first class.
If you see 80k + $5.60 then it is United nonstop. This is available right now for Jan 16 departure.
On other dates, I see the United nonstop is 245k miles
There are business class award tickets at United on most days for 88K one way from NYC to DEL. Use the calendar. Some of the dates have tickets for 88k miles but with two stops and/or are on Egyptaifr or Ethiopian.
Do the search for 1 passenger and use the 30-day calendar.
The calendar shows the lowest cost in miles + taxes. For NYC-->DEL you will see mileage cost of 88k miles for many. That amount, 88k, means the itinerary includes at least one partner carrier. If the amount is 80k then the flight is on United. The minimum amount for taxes looks to be $5.60 for a nonstop.
If you see 88k + $5.60 then it is Air India nonstop. They also have first class.
If you see 80k + $5.60 then it is United nonstop. This is available right now for Jan 16 departure.
On other dates, I see the United nonstop is 245k miles
Jan 13th, 2024, 06:01 AM
#16
>> next day DEL to EWR. Milage: 540,000 miles for business class!
I took that to mean that EWR/JFK is your home airport. That 540k is roundtrip, right? What dates?
oh, crap, i just saw:
>> I live in Phoenix,
Phoenix to Mumbai and 1 more | Google Flights
Just can't find a business class trip for $18000. One-stop roundtirp $6300, two-stop for less
Phoenix to Mumbai and 1 more | Google Flights
I took that to mean that EWR/JFK is your home airport. That 540k is roundtrip, right? What dates?
oh, crap, i just saw:
>> I live in Phoenix,
Phoenix to Mumbai and 1 more | Google Flights
Just can't find a business class trip for $18000. One-stop roundtirp $6300, two-stop for less
Phoenix to Mumbai and 1 more | Google Flights
Last edited by mrwunrfl; Jan 13th, 2024 at 06:27 AM.
Jan 13th, 2024, 02:33 PM
#17
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I’m not so concerned about business class to or from PHX. Also would consider having to stay an extra night on either end too. what I would like to avoid is 2 stops on the international flights.
Will be doing some looking tomorrow to see what’s there given some different routes.
We’ll see!
Will be doing some looking tomorrow to see what’s there given some different routes.
We’ll see!
Jan 14th, 2024, 05:31 AM
#18
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I’m not so concerned about business class to or from PHX. Also would consider having to stay an extra night on either end too. what I would like to avoid is 2 stops on the international flights.
Will be doing some looking tomorrow to see what’s there given some different routes.
We’ll see!
Will be doing some looking tomorrow to see what’s there given some different routes.
We’ll see!
As for an overnight stay at an airport in or Nero hotel we’ve done that before. Considering how much money we saved with getting free tickets it’s certainly worth the cost of an overnight stay.
Jan 15th, 2024, 04:33 PM
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