Travel Agent faux pas?
Mar 14th, 2008, 06:51 AM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Travel Agent faux pas?
So my TA said there was no availability at a lodge, I REALLY want to go to that lodge, so I sent them an email myself.
They DO have availability.
What now? I have already reserved a spot on a mobile safari, and I really like her. What could have happened??
They DO have availability.
What now? I have already reserved a spot on a mobile safari, and I really like her. What could have happened??
Mar 14th, 2008, 07:14 AM
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So it's not a big deal? I was thinking the lodge didn't want to pay commission to the TA so she didn't offer it to me and if I hand it over to the TA, there will be bad blood. Am I thinking too much about this? ha--I do that sometimes.
So I shouldn't book it myself? (That's the Faux pas part, I forgot to mention.) I don't want to lose this reservation.
So I shouldn't book it myself? (That's the Faux pas part, I forgot to mention.) I don't want to lose this reservation.
Mar 14th, 2008, 07:32 AM
#5
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 8,675
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't think too much about it.
As above reply, just let your agent know that the lodge claims to have space and for her/him to follow-up. Besides, you might get a better price going thru your agent. If you were to book direct, lodge most likely will charge you the rack rate which is the highest price.
As above reply, just let your agent know that the lodge claims to have space and for her/him to follow-up. Besides, you might get a better price going thru your agent. If you were to book direct, lodge most likely will charge you the rack rate which is the highest price.
Mar 14th, 2008, 08:52 AM
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Availability changes hourly, or is this just another agent wanting to book certain lodges because of the higher commission levels they receive. Another tactic is inform that all the space is being booked fast. Though when i arrived, I was the only person in camp.........dirty business these travel agencies. Thats unfair, because many do a good job. Though many are more concerned in the sale.
Mar 14th, 2008, 10:13 AM
#8
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,528
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mdlopez05,
Yup - every operator has preferred agents that they deal with ....... now that you have found out that your agent was actually lying, find yourself a proper agent. Every safari lodge or operator has their preferred agents that you could deal with, ask the operator to recommend someone with the most competitive pricing and professionalism.
Sure availability changes hourly, but, some agents flat out lie to sell you alternate itineraries ...... i don't know what your situation was, though.
You have to bear in mind that all travel agents are normally very polite, very prompt with email responses, hand hold your booking for long durations ------ all of this only due to the huge commissions involved. It's a dirty business - Southern Africa safari travel trade.
Bear in mind, safaris are expensive - there is no reason to settle for options other than the ones you have chosen for yourself.
Some agents are able to hold provisional bookings for longer durations than the rest - hence they are able to create the supposed situation of Botswana being over booked ...........
Good luck!!!
Yup - every operator has preferred agents that they deal with ....... now that you have found out that your agent was actually lying, find yourself a proper agent. Every safari lodge or operator has their preferred agents that you could deal with, ask the operator to recommend someone with the most competitive pricing and professionalism.
Sure availability changes hourly, but, some agents flat out lie to sell you alternate itineraries ...... i don't know what your situation was, though.
You have to bear in mind that all travel agents are normally very polite, very prompt with email responses, hand hold your booking for long durations ------ all of this only due to the huge commissions involved. It's a dirty business - Southern Africa safari travel trade.
Bear in mind, safaris are expensive - there is no reason to settle for options other than the ones you have chosen for yourself.
Some agents are able to hold provisional bookings for longer durations than the rest - hence they are able to create the supposed situation of Botswana being over booked ...........
Good luck!!!
Mar 14th, 2008, 06:45 PM
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I originally had my heart set on Mala Mala--was told it was booked, then found Mapula and was also told it was booked. This is why I just decided to contact Mapula directly--I thought I'd try to see if maybe things had opened up.
My original thought was to change travel agents, but I'd like to think that space just opened up. And she has already reserved our spot on Migration Routes, which I don't want to lose. The TA is from a company that has very good reviews on this board all around, so I'm going with the idea that it isn't a crooked situation (tho, now I'm curious about Mala Mala, which will give us a more well-rounded trip...???).
Though, HariS and lbj, do you have any travel agencies that you would recommend that do not partake in this manipulation?
My original thought was to change travel agents, but I'd like to think that space just opened up. And she has already reserved our spot on Migration Routes, which I don't want to lose. The TA is from a company that has very good reviews on this board all around, so I'm going with the idea that it isn't a crooked situation (tho, now I'm curious about Mala Mala, which will give us a more well-rounded trip...???).
Though, HariS and lbj, do you have any travel agencies that you would recommend that do not partake in this manipulation?
Mar 15th, 2008, 04:00 PM
#11
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 14,440
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mdlopez05
If everything else was above board with your agent, I wouldn't worry about this incident. With a small camp, things can change quickly. Sometimes websites that agents check for availability may not be updated as quickly as a direct contact.
Your approach is a good lesson though to keep everybody honest.
If everything else was above board with your agent, I wouldn't worry about this incident. With a small camp, things can change quickly. Sometimes websites that agents check for availability may not be updated as quickly as a direct contact.
Your approach is a good lesson though to keep everybody honest.
Mar 15th, 2008, 04:41 PM
#12
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This happened to me last year and my first reaction was to be upset with my travel agent who had been great until then. In the end, I called him and told him and his reaction was basically that he was thrilled we were able to get in at that hotel and to book it and he would subtract the cost of the rooms we booked from his overall package (with the hotel he put us in). In the end, he continued to provide above and beyond service and all was great. But I understand the worry because I was definitely not happy when I called myself and got the room.
Mar 15th, 2008, 05:08 PM
#13
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,715
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have to say this really upsets me as I have heard numerous tales of agents resisting booking Mapula since I visited in November and reported on it which seems to have sparked a lot of interest in the lodge. This specific case could simply be a case of an opening developing but I doubt it because of all the incidents I have been told of (more below).
The fact is Wilderness Safaris has a real strangle hold on a lot of TAs and I have been told by a number of people in the travel industry that WS pressures agents to book almost exclusively with them if they want to remain one of the preferred providers allowed to sell WS (or to eventually earn the right to be a preferred provider for newer agents who must book via a preferred agent to prove their dedication). Beyond just WS it is typical for agents to have volume relationships with certain providers and they often make a higher commission by booking with a certain operator and this is a big reason why a lot of agents recommend itineraries that are all with one operator and typically if they do include other properties you do not get the best price on them.
I have received emails from a few Fodorites asking me more about Mapula once they have been discouraged by their agents. I have been told that one agent said they had never heard of Mapula and thus it could not be any good since they know Botswana so well. Same agent said they will not book Kwando Camps because of an accident where a guest broke their arm during a fast chase as if Kwando is the only place where guides occassionally drive fast in pursuit of a hunt, etc. BTW, the accident was long ago, I think more than 10 years and I have actually heard this excuse used for not booking Kwando more than once which makes me feel like it is a coached excuse. Another well known agent warned that putting Mapula on an itinerary with WS camps would be a big let down in quality. I have stayed at 5 paw Duma Tau and Duba Plains, both of which I liked very much but in my opinion Mapula's chalets are much more luxurious and very much more spacious so clearly this agent had never been there. When pushed one agent reluctantly included Mapula but got the pricing through WS which no surprise was charging quite a premium over the rack rate making it close in cost to the WS camps instead of the big cost advantage that it should of been. Claiming no availability is certainly used by some TAs to keep you in the properties that benefit themselves. This has all been very eye opening for me and extremely disappointing to see how clients are mislead due to business alliances that agents have.
I agree with Hari that if you have done your research and know what you want it's important to demand it and unfortunately when told that there is no availability it is worth checking via a different avenue because sometimes it just is not true. If it was me I would look for an agent that enjoys booking with a variety of operators and not just always with one company unless you know you want an all WS itinerary in which case go with one of their most preferred agents because it will help you immensely if you have a problem occur and want some retribution.
The fact is Wilderness Safaris has a real strangle hold on a lot of TAs and I have been told by a number of people in the travel industry that WS pressures agents to book almost exclusively with them if they want to remain one of the preferred providers allowed to sell WS (or to eventually earn the right to be a preferred provider for newer agents who must book via a preferred agent to prove their dedication). Beyond just WS it is typical for agents to have volume relationships with certain providers and they often make a higher commission by booking with a certain operator and this is a big reason why a lot of agents recommend itineraries that are all with one operator and typically if they do include other properties you do not get the best price on them.
I have received emails from a few Fodorites asking me more about Mapula once they have been discouraged by their agents. I have been told that one agent said they had never heard of Mapula and thus it could not be any good since they know Botswana so well. Same agent said they will not book Kwando Camps because of an accident where a guest broke their arm during a fast chase as if Kwando is the only place where guides occassionally drive fast in pursuit of a hunt, etc. BTW, the accident was long ago, I think more than 10 years and I have actually heard this excuse used for not booking Kwando more than once which makes me feel like it is a coached excuse. Another well known agent warned that putting Mapula on an itinerary with WS camps would be a big let down in quality. I have stayed at 5 paw Duma Tau and Duba Plains, both of which I liked very much but in my opinion Mapula's chalets are much more luxurious and very much more spacious so clearly this agent had never been there. When pushed one agent reluctantly included Mapula but got the pricing through WS which no surprise was charging quite a premium over the rack rate making it close in cost to the WS camps instead of the big cost advantage that it should of been. Claiming no availability is certainly used by some TAs to keep you in the properties that benefit themselves. This has all been very eye opening for me and extremely disappointing to see how clients are mislead due to business alliances that agents have.
I agree with Hari that if you have done your research and know what you want it's important to demand it and unfortunately when told that there is no availability it is worth checking via a different avenue because sometimes it just is not true. If it was me I would look for an agent that enjoys booking with a variety of operators and not just always with one company unless you know you want an all WS itinerary in which case go with one of their most preferred agents because it will help you immensely if you have a problem occur and want some retribution.
Mar 15th, 2008, 11:31 PM
#16
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,528
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't think there is anything wrong with travel agents having close tie-ups with certain operators whoever they are! After all, they are in it for business and have established working relationships over a period of time earning a good reputation.
The problem i have is, with the lying and manipulation of some travel agents - more especially, ones that rely exclusively on travel chat forums for capturing their clietnele. Their lack of professionalism, knowledge or guidance of clients creates problems in a variety of ways for all concerned - Other travellers, Lodge management/guides and other staff etc etc.,
The problem i have is, with the lying and manipulation of some travel agents - more especially, ones that rely exclusively on travel chat forums for capturing their clietnele. Their lack of professionalism, knowledge or guidance of clients creates problems in a variety of ways for all concerned - Other travellers, Lodge management/guides and other staff etc etc.,
Mar 15th, 2008, 11:42 PM
#17
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,274
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Further to Pred's post, the availability chart on the independent Linyanti Explorations (Selinda) website did not survive the company's new ownership which has a close relationship with WS.
One of the best features of an operator's website is a detailed availability chart. In the old LE's case, it was kept up to date.
One of the best features of an operator's website is a detailed availability chart. In the old LE's case, it was kept up to date.
Mar 16th, 2008, 08:04 AM
#18
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,715
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hari I'm glad you said that because I really can't fault an agent for building the relationships that get them paid the most, that's essential in any business. I just think it is critical that customers are informed that these kind of things go on and that unfortunately the system creates incentives for agents that don't always have the consumers best interests in the forefront.
John, that is completely counter intuitive that all trends are for more information to be available to consumers on the internet but in this case a new marketing arrangement eliminates great information that was previously available. The WS model is built to be completely dependent on agents so it does not serve them for you to be able to know such things as availability or pricing, they want you to go through their sales force, preferred agents. Obviously the model is working great for them but it keeps consumers dependent on agents and unfortunately that opens us up to some of the monkey business mentioned on this thread.
As Hari alluded to earlier a big problem (and no doubt a reason to not have availability charts) is some companies including WS allow their preferred agents to hold provisional booking space (unconfirmed reservations) for a longtime, I think some are able to hold space with no deposit until 60 days prior. This is one big reason why people find such difficulty with the availability they want because a camp may have no spots free to reserve 8 months out but it ends up that agents are holding 4 tents provisionally and then may never actually book them. If you went to a different agent you might get the camp you really wanted because they have a hold there. If you are ever told there is no space have your agent ask if they are all confirmed bookings and tell them that you are willing to pay today for that space and if you are lucky it may get released to you.
One last big observation on this. These practices are a big reason why all lodge prices spiral up. Agents spread this misconception that a lower priced property must be a big drop off in quality. The truth is the extra $225 pppn in high season rack rate paid for WS or Kwando is just flat out additional profit, at $600 pppn Mapula is able to offer all the same quality and make a profit, just not as enormous of one. These discouragement practices work and I know of 3 parties who just gave up their original plan to go to Mapula because of the agents discouragement or by charging more than rack rate to include Mapula made it easier to just book an all WS itinerary. This is how out of whack the luxury safari market has become. Due to consumer misconceptoin at significantly better pricing its hard to fill your space but if you raise your prices to near the level of the other operators all of a sudden consumers believe you are at that quality and agents are more willing to sell the property because 25% at $825 pppn is a lot more than 25% at $600 pppn. It's the inverse of what typical economics would suggest but unfortunately with agents dominating who goes where higher prices can actually yield better occupancy rates because in the luxury market the sales force drives the demand more than the end consumer. Thus, don't be surprised when relative bargains like Mapula have to raise prices to stay in business, not because they don't charge enough but because they need the agents to deliver better occupancy rather than sabotage of customers who wanted to come.
While much of this has been focused on Botswana and WS which are the examples that I know best this does happen everywhere and I have witnessed it in SA as well where an agent claimed to be unable to book a small community owned property in Madikwe that was readily accessible and instead insisted on booking his client into a CC Africa property at significantly more cost. I emailed the property in question and got a same day reply and the person was able to book direct. It happens everywhere in the safari industry so buyer beware!
John, that is completely counter intuitive that all trends are for more information to be available to consumers on the internet but in this case a new marketing arrangement eliminates great information that was previously available. The WS model is built to be completely dependent on agents so it does not serve them for you to be able to know such things as availability or pricing, they want you to go through their sales force, preferred agents. Obviously the model is working great for them but it keeps consumers dependent on agents and unfortunately that opens us up to some of the monkey business mentioned on this thread.
As Hari alluded to earlier a big problem (and no doubt a reason to not have availability charts) is some companies including WS allow their preferred agents to hold provisional booking space (unconfirmed reservations) for a longtime, I think some are able to hold space with no deposit until 60 days prior. This is one big reason why people find such difficulty with the availability they want because a camp may have no spots free to reserve 8 months out but it ends up that agents are holding 4 tents provisionally and then may never actually book them. If you went to a different agent you might get the camp you really wanted because they have a hold there. If you are ever told there is no space have your agent ask if they are all confirmed bookings and tell them that you are willing to pay today for that space and if you are lucky it may get released to you.
One last big observation on this. These practices are a big reason why all lodge prices spiral up. Agents spread this misconception that a lower priced property must be a big drop off in quality. The truth is the extra $225 pppn in high season rack rate paid for WS or Kwando is just flat out additional profit, at $600 pppn Mapula is able to offer all the same quality and make a profit, just not as enormous of one. These discouragement practices work and I know of 3 parties who just gave up their original plan to go to Mapula because of the agents discouragement or by charging more than rack rate to include Mapula made it easier to just book an all WS itinerary. This is how out of whack the luxury safari market has become. Due to consumer misconceptoin at significantly better pricing its hard to fill your space but if you raise your prices to near the level of the other operators all of a sudden consumers believe you are at that quality and agents are more willing to sell the property because 25% at $825 pppn is a lot more than 25% at $600 pppn. It's the inverse of what typical economics would suggest but unfortunately with agents dominating who goes where higher prices can actually yield better occupancy rates because in the luxury market the sales force drives the demand more than the end consumer. Thus, don't be surprised when relative bargains like Mapula have to raise prices to stay in business, not because they don't charge enough but because they need the agents to deliver better occupancy rather than sabotage of customers who wanted to come.
While much of this has been focused on Botswana and WS which are the examples that I know best this does happen everywhere and I have witnessed it in SA as well where an agent claimed to be unable to book a small community owned property in Madikwe that was readily accessible and instead insisted on booking his client into a CC Africa property at significantly more cost. I emailed the property in question and got a same day reply and the person was able to book direct. It happens everywhere in the safari industry so buyer beware!
Mar 16th, 2008, 06:53 PM
#19
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,528
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good point, PB.
In John's example of the new Selinda website - not only has relavant information been removed, but, the website is just similar to a glitzy brochure with lovely pictures. I was surprised at most, if not all of the text material.
In John's example of the new Selinda website - not only has relavant information been removed, but, the website is just similar to a glitzy brochure with lovely pictures. I was surprised at most, if not all of the text material.
Mar 16th, 2008, 07:22 PM
#20
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 259
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
aownes, or others,
I tried to check MalaMala availability on their website, and it looks like only Rattray's, not Main Camp or Sable Camp, are included on the list (along with Mashatu). Am I missing something.
I tried to check MalaMala availability on their website, and it looks like only Rattray's, not Main Camp or Sable Camp, are included on the list (along with Mashatu). Am I missing something.
