luangwablondes

With conditions being what they are, what kind of discounts or rates or .... other, are you looking for at the camps and lodges? What is going to get people to come to Zambia over other countries?

divine54

it's still "off the beaten track".
it's still more favourable than botswana
it's having spectacular landscapes like LZNP and offers great activities besides game drives
it offers a kind of completion in view to the southern africa safari circuit

but - it's going to "suffer" one day when zim is going to be back on the safari map which hopefully will be rather sooner than later

div

mkhonzo

Just saw your post

I think the question is: What is it going to take to get people to travel? period! The economy is paralyzing the travel industry globally.

GreenDrake

I took my first trip to Zambia in 2004 and to tell you the truth after revisiting Zambia 2 more times after that, I would have been content to visit Zambia once a year for the rest of my life.

At that time, most of the camps were priced significantly below the Botswana Delta camps and although still not cheap it fit into my budget. The price of that same 2004 trip was 78% higher in 2008 or almost a 20% increase per year. My income did not grow anywhere near that rate and in the course of 4 years Zambia priced itself beyond what I considered a reasonable price for me. When you throw the 2008 financial crisis on top of that I can’t see myself returning there in the near future without a significant price decrease – stay 7 days and get one day free won’t do it for me.

divine54

green
you are expressing exactly what i meant when i stated the danger zambia most probably is facing IF zimbabwe shows up again on the safari circuit soon!

some destinations are or will be price themselves out of the market by obvious greed.

sanctuary lodges is moderately priced still but go up to almost 900$ for the upcoming season.

it's madness.

div

luangwablondes

I started this thread so we can express what really bugs us about pricing in Zambia. And what it would take to start reconsidering Zambia as a safari destination. The operators bitched when the price of visas slowed safari goers to Zambia. Now here is a chance for them to woo us back, do something on their own, and not blame someone else or the world economy.

cary999

We were at Robin Pope camps Nsefu and Tena Tena in Septembers of 2005 and 2006. We liked them a lot, but game viewing was a bit sparse compared to other camps other countries. Although let me hasten to add that Zambia is unique and beautiful like no other place. What would get me back, to make the extra effort out of South Africa, would be camp prices about half of those of South Africa. That is $300 pppn.

regards - tom

Temba

I can tell you why I decided recently to not book Zambia and to go to Botswana instead. Not long ago a typical Zambian safari was 1/2 of what a safari of similar duration to Botswana cost. However, now the cost is about the same when one figures in all of the airfare. Friends that have done both tell me that there is no comparison and while I would like to visit Zambia I am not willing to pay Botswana like fees. You are free to disagree but the question was what it would take to get people ot come to Zambia. Well it would take a return to the old price differential as compared to Botswana before I would consider a safari to Zambia. As others have already noted, it is insane that so many safari destinations are not taking advantage of the weakening in their currencies to offer great deals. No I don't think the pay for 6 stay 7 or pay for 3 stay for 4 are nearly attractive enough to lure people to Afria, period. Safari addicts like those that frequent these forums perhaps but the bulk of the safari tourisim comes from first time and one time visitors. My addiction is relatively recent and I plan on many safaris over the next 5 to 6 years but none are planned for Zambia, at least given the current cost structure.
Ted

Temba

Two additional points: most of my friends tell me that Zambia is really better suited for walking safaris and that game viewing otherwise is not nearly as good as in Botswana and also that because of the National Park restrictions, off-roading is not possible. I'm not saying that this information is 100% correct but it is the impression that many of us have from friends and travel agents. The deal maker for me would be new attractive low rates, particularly when compared to Botswana or SA.
Ted

divine54

walking safaris is only a major topic in a small psrt of the country: SLNP where RP is the icon forWS.

gameviewing wise:
it's not outstanding at all. for cats go to SS/SA or chief's/savute/BOT.

landscape wise: there are many destinations in SA which can stand a comparison.

zambia profits from safaristi who want to do some "exotic" destinations or safaristi who have already "done it all".

i wnet twice during different seasons (dry and wet) and i must admit it's not worth the effort. going from livingstone to LZNP took us almost 1 day.

thanks - don't need it it third time even if another location is involved.

the only thing which would be tempting: seeing the shoebills.

div

atravelynn

I agree with Green Drake: "stay 7 days and get one day free won’t do it for me."

That's a 14% discount. The market is down 40%. A 14% discount is not be enough for most people. That's not just regarding Zambia.

LuangwaBlondes "started this thread so we can express what really bugs us about pricing in Zambia. And what it would take to start reconsidering Zambia as a safari destination."

Recent pricing is the only negative regarding Zambia. Otherwise it's wonderful. (Well, I'd like more parks with cheetahs, but that's just me.)

luangwablondes

This is a good time to say something that could matter. We know there are plenty of TAs and even some operators that periodically check out this site. With reservations down, I imagine more of them will be looking at sites like this. Maybe if something useful was posted once in a while, they could take us seriously. Thanks also to the few that have done so. And this applies to other safari destinations.

Time to get off the soapbox.

GreenDrake

I am really scratching my head at the prices I am seeing in 2009. Is it really possible that the recession has not hit Zambia??? I just saw Kafunta posted their 2009 rack rates and they are 30% higher than 2008 in some cases!! For example their 10 day North & South Kafunta trip is:

2008 PP
$3,450
SS $800
Airfare to N.Luangwa $400
Total $4,650

2009 PP
$4,320
SS 1,250
Airfare to N.Luangwa $490
Total $6,060

atravelynn

I don't get it either GreenDrake.

Temba

I think there is a total disconnect and failure to appreciate the state of the financial crisis among the the African Safari lodge and camp operators. Not only in Zambia but in Kenya, Botswana and South Africa as well. One the late 2009 and 2010 bookings dry up, they will wake up. Until then only the odd honeymoon couple or fortunate Africa addict will travel on safari. I have become the later so look forward to less crowded camps. Still, I am booking shorter stays and would never consider a trip to Zambia at the current published prices. Keep in mind that the South African Rand has fallen 30% against the dollar over the past 12 months, yet rates at Mala Mala remain the same as for 2008 and they continue to quote and charge in U.S. dollars. Once they are faced with sgnificant vacancies they will offer discounts. Likewise the other operators, camps and lodges alike, will awaken soon. Keep in mind that the British Pound has fallen 30% against the dollar and the financial meltdown in Great Britain is even more severe than in the rest of Europe. Keep the faith-prices will fall, count on it.
Ted

LAleslie

I have only one experience in Zambia, but I do think that:
1. The visa prices are insulting. I know it's a small percentage of the overall cost of a trip from the U.S., but no one likes their pocket picked;
2. The fewer opportiunites for off-roading in private game preserves;
3. the perception that the guiding isn't as good; and, most importantly...
4. The non-competitive pricing. I agree the prices should be way lower than in Botswana (and SA) to lure both first-timers and frequent Africa travelers. I would JUMP at a 40%-50% drop in price from other safari experiences in other countries. The "5th night's free" come-on has absolutely no effect on my booking another trip to Africa. I'll take the free night as a bonus, sure, and it might make me favor one camp over another (if they're not that different) but it doesn't steer me to another country.
Can a Zambian safari business operate on rates 40% to %50 lower than competitors? I have no idea. But lots of people are looking for more comfortable but affordable safaris without the uber luxuries, as long as they have reasonable game viewing. Seems like Zambia could fill that niche market beautifully. Since Zambia just doesn't have nearly the brand names that Bots and SA--or, ironically, even Zim-- have, they need to be realistic and offer some loss leader-type pricing to lure us in and build a name. As it is now, Zambia just isn't "sexy."

cary999

I've been on safari twice (2005 and 2006) to Zambia, South Luangwa, Robin Pope camps. That area has a primitive feel and look about it like no other I've been to. (Andy Biggs would l-o-v-e the light there). And I'd go back, but considering the overall safari experience, their rates would have to be half of what they are now.

regards - tom

rickmck

RE GreenDrake's comment on Kafunta pricing. I was there in Oct 2008 and did the 10n N&S Luangwa itinerary as part of an overall 3 weeks in Zam, and I have previously noted the huge price increase from 2008 to 2009. While there, a very senior member of management mentioned in casual conversation that, while Kafunta tends to serve a mid-level clientele, she had often been advised by other local operators to raise the rates "and don't look back"... Hopefully, there will be some looking back now... All in all, I had a better experience in Kafue than in SLNP at Kafunta -- way more remote, way fewer people, much more rustic (and, therefore, pleasing to me), excellent wildlife viewing, better food at the bush camps (!), and all the tsetse flies you could ever hope for. I would happily return to Kafue and NLNP, and to the northern areas of SLNP, if the pricing were affordble...

atravelynn

Thanks for the insight, Rickmck. That tidbit of pricing stategy was implemented in way different times. It might come back to bite them in the butt like a swarm of tsetses.

I wonder if "raise the prices and don't look back" is the same philosophy followed by many African operations. They all got the same memo.

<i>As it is now, Zambia just isn't "sexy."</i> 30% increases in these times are a real turn off, but I still find the remoteness, the walking, and the Cookson's Wildebeest to be very "sexy."

Zambian operators should take note of LALeslie's comments, though, because they come from a potential customer. If too many people feel that way in this market, it's bad times ahead.

spassvogel

LAleslie

Regarding Visa fees: African Countries charge fees in accordance with their counterparts oversees.

I was curious about the fact that Germans pay 50 compared to Americans 150 or so. I was told by officials but also in camps that these countries charge according to the fees other countries charge their citizens.

So for that it's not Zambia to blame ;-) "pick pocketing" in predominantly at both ends of the rope.

SV