salce

Hi there,

I am planning a trip to Tanzania and would need some advice regarding operators. I have talked to several companies now, and have gotten two different price levels for very similar trips: Sunny Safaris and Good Earth are quoting about $800pp less than Green Footprint, Tanzania Adventure and Naipenda, for similar itineraries and type of accommodation. Do you think this price difference is justified by the quality of their own mobile tents, cars, guides, service etc.?

Thanks a lot for your help

santharamhari

why not post both itineraries.....East africa travellers may be able to help you better.....

Geelong2007

this is not the first time naipenda have come out more expensive than most other companies
out of all those you contacted sunny safaris dont have an overseas presence so should be cheaper
also I dont think the price difference means that you are necessarily getting a better driver ,guide, tents or whatever
from the first two choose the one you are most comfortable with over the emails
by the way what lodges are you staying in

MatiH

perhaps it is an idea to ask these companies how their insurance works. there might be a difference in the level of quality when it comes to such things as guides, cars and the service in the planning stages of your safari. but you may want to find out how well they are equipped on the ground when it comes to handling emergencies, for example. this may help you to make a decision - it is a good idea to figure out what's really beyond that price.

dssxxxx

I think you could get a better idea, by asking Roy Safaris to give you a price for the same itinerary. They are a little higher end, at least with the vehicles, etc. Just MHO.

Bill_H

<b>Sunny Safaris and Good Earth are quoting about $800pp less than Green Footprint, Tanzania Adventure and Naipenda, for similar itineraries and type of accommodation. Do you think this price difference is justified</b>

Sunny and Good Earth have good reputations in the bargain to moderate priced market (I've seen dozens of their jeeps) and are local ground operators. I know several people who used GE and never heard a complaint.

I haven't seen jeeps from the other 3 companies, perhaps they use different ground operators (or I just never saw their vehicles).

For &quot;similar itineraries and type of accommodation&quot; I'd be hard pressed to give you a reason to go with the more expensive companies.

I remember once a guy priced things similarly to this and decided to go with the more expensive company because they answered his emails more promptly ... and then when he got there he found that their ground operator was the other company he had been getting quotes from. He felt pretty foolish.

Not saying that's the case here with these three, but still you could ask them who they use as ground operators and why they are more expensive.

Bill

midwestgypsy

Hi,

just returned from tanzania/pemba yesterday. I would stay away from sunny personally. I found their drivers rude and actually their specific jeeps were a running joke with us (our car) the entire trip. They were the screech and shoot company. See a heyena, stop in your tracks, let the client shoot their shot and take off again (vs a driver taking the time to position the vehicle for the opimal shot, etc). There are zillions of sunny vehicles out there... everywhere!

Apparently not all their drivers go through &quot;training&quot; and don't know proper guide protocol. As a result we saw sunny drivers claim the right of way on roads they should have pulled aside on (the two other sunny vehicles caravaning apologized for the first car) and we saw another sunny vehicle &quot;ruin&quot; the shots of other vehicles by planting itself directly in front of the other cars (something trained guides learn to be considerate of).

They also tended to be the caravan jeeps. We were out on our own most of the time and rarely saw them solo.

Green Footprint apparently specializes in walking safaris and as a result only own two of their own vehicles. They're top notch on the walking safaris. As a result they have a couple of contractors they hire out for their driving safaris - we kept running into the 1st choice contractor throughout our trip and our driver chatted with him on occasion. Seemed like a nice guy.

We went with Naipenda and all i can say is it was an incredible experience. Chris, our guide was top notch.

From what i learned it's all about the service. Some companies will inflate their prices and not put the money into their guides, equipment, etc. Roy's I learned while over there is an example of that. For example, Roy's is indian owned and does not pay their guides a top pay scale. from a guides perspective, working for an indian go company is bottom of the heiarchy and not ideal. As such these companies do not attract quality guides. Additionally they do not have their own tent equipment which is why if you want a tented experience Roy's will tell you to bring a sleeping bag (at least that's what they told me initially) i'm not entirly positive on this but i also think if they do provide beds, they're renting the equipment from another G.O. Personally if a company doesn't have the assets i'd rather go to a company who HAS made the investment.

It is interesting, however. What makes an attractive company for a guide, is not what makes an attractive company for a client. CC Africa is an example of this. CC Africa tends to attract the very old or the young because of how they demand the guides remain in a particular location for 3 months. This means a) they're away from their families for an extended period and b) they don't have the opportunity to build the relationship with their clients since the clients typically fly from site to site.

I don't know about the other g.o., but i do know if i was starting from scratch and prices were all within a comfortable range, if it was possible, i'd pick a company where one of the co-owners was african, and who caters primarily to americans. There are other factors i'd also evaluate along the lines of size, service, etc., but won't go into here...

Hope this helps.

Melissa

Geelong2007

Melissa
Your comments definately haven't helped naipenda safaris. I joined this board as a regular because I believe everyone should get a fair go and often they dont
However
the fact that Roys and Sunny Safaris are both owned by Indians born in Tanzania firstly makes them African doesn't it and secondly it doesnt mean that they deserve the critism you have heaped on them
your opinions are obviously colored by your guide working for another opposition company and I would urge all fodorites to take this post with a grain of salt and dont always listen to what your guide says
How much did you tip him by the way?
as a final PS
dont insult your fellow Americans by making comments such as &quot;choose a safari company that caters for Americans&quot;
What about all the Japanese tourist who visit east Africa where do they book.

Leely

Melissa, perhaps unintentionally, you have repeated some of the &quot;us vs. them&quot; sentiments that I've seen and heard expressed by <b>some</b> Tanzanians about resident Indians.

By the way, there is a sizable Indian community in Tanzania, and while the relations between &quot;Africans&quot; (as you call them) and Indian immigrants and their descendants is certainly a long and complicated one, your comments don't really help this discussion.

Remember it's best to contextualize what people invested in their particular company, in their particular country's racial/economic relations say. I say some pretty whack things sometimes, too, and probably don't realize it.

I'm sorry if this comes off as harsh, I just think some of what you've said is perpetuating...bad stuff.

Leely

salce,
Sorry, got off on a tangent. What is the itinerary exactly? While I can see some differences in cost as normal, $800 pp seems like quite a bit.

Ask Mirjam about vehicles--and your other ops too.

cary999

Well, Geelong2007, with your quip of &quot;How much did you tip him by the way? &quot; you just lost all credibility with me, that is as bad as what you are accusing Melissa of.
And, your &quot;dont insult your fellow Americans by making comments such as &quot;choose a safari company that caters for Americans&quot;&quot;. Is interesting, I was on a trip (not safari) where a group of non-Americans spent almost all of the time on cell phones chatting about Lord knows what (not my language). When I inquired of a nice young fellow in the group why such constant chatter he said &quot;That is just the way xxxxxxs are, we have to have talk all of the time. I know what you mean.&quot; When I'm on a game drive I'd like to be around people I'm comfortable with and not distracted by. Save, cultural enlightening for another time.
regards - tom

santharamhari

Melissa,

Being Indian myself......i must tell you i find your post very interesting. I wont comment, simply because i dont know anything about Roy or sunny safaris........but, VERY interesting indeed....

Hari

santharamhari

Tom: Our feelings mutual and that's why i get a private vehicle....

Chees,
Hari

cary999

Hari, well, me too, someday when I win the lottery
Actually I've been very lucky maybe, on only one game drive, out of perhaps 25, have I been annoyed by another guest. A fellow American lady who had to chatter with the guide/driver until there was game directly in front of us. I had a word with the guide/driver and he agreed with me and we conspired so that she could not sit close to him in the vehicle. She didn't dare try to talk to him over my head.
On the other hand, at our very last camp, Lil Governors, we shared the vehicle with a very nice English couple. They were as keen on photography as we were, and in easy agreement to stay and wait things out for action. He also was a Nikon camera fan so we got along quite well He was still shooting slide film and I teased him about always having to watch out for the end of that 36 roll. I don't miss film/slides. The digital world is so much fun - and challenging Ok, so enough off-topic for now.
regards - tom

santharamhari

Hi Tom,

Yep, i've been fortunate too whenever with most co-companions in the car barring one or two at times.....

Agreed on the Nikon and going digital....

Cheers,
H

PredatorBiologist

Personally I could care less about the orgins of my safari mates and I certainly would never look for an operator or camp that caters to Americans. What I care about is places that cater to eco-tourists that have a passion for serious wildife viewing. Being like minded does not mean someone comes from my nation or looks like me.

Geelong2007

Tom you are right
I should have been more careful

sandi

Had to think whether I wanted to pop in, but since I have a personal interest in Roys, know that they are Africans of Indian decent (as I am American of Russian/Polish decent)... I'm still an American! Not hyphenated! A good number (probably half) of the tour outfitters in both Kenya and Tanzania are of Indian decent, many being in East Africa more than 100/years. They consider themselves African - Kenyan or Tanzanian.

Roy's does not pay their guides low wages, rather probably some of the highest; also benefits. For their crews who do the Kili climbs, if later affected by altitude sickness or prefer to get off the mountain are trained for another job by them... can be guides or vehicle mechanics. They have ongoing in-house training programs for guides, customer service, vehicle maintenance, even for long-term employees. Most of their guides have been with them for years, one almost as long as they have been in business (about 20/yrs). Those that leave, don't necessarily do so to go to another outfitter, rather, open their own small guiding operation. And that's fine. The reason, many new small operations have opened recently, now that tourism has picked-up in East Africa.

As to their tent camps, sleeping bags and other amenities are available for rent at a small fee ($5/day for a sleeping bag)... all of which are laundered after each use. Guides have their own tents in which to sleep.

Roy's has some, if not, the best vehicles out on the plains, many specifically designed by them; such design now becoming standad on the plains with other companies following suit. I can recall, a recent client in conversation mentioning they checked all vehicles while out on their safari commentting &quot;Roy's had the newest and cleanest and most comfortable vehicles; more so than even A&amp;K and Micato whose passengers they spoke with while on game drives/at camps/lodges.&quot; I would have though the client would have had better things to be of concern, but she was checking vehicles.

Besides, there are a few large well-known named tour operators, who feel Roys is more than sufficiently reputable to use Roys vehicles and guides when they themselves are overbooked. I believe that says it all.

I believe for as many negative experiences individual visitors may have with a particular outfitter, there are usually ten-fold the number who report otherwise. Hey, the gal who does my hand-laundry (Chinese, if I may say), has even lost a pillow-case over the years... not bad for 20+/yrs of service; and which was replaced. I still have only praise for her.

There are plenty of outfitters out there. Some with history and reputation, others are newcomers who will eventually (as they hope) be too. Unless, there are repeated reports of one operator being constantly poor, irresponsible, provide poor guides/vehicles... we have choices.

midwestgypsy - maybe your experience was what is was with Napienda, but Roys, Good Earth and Green Footprints get good reviews and provide those seeking safari excellent options. I, personally, would take words of a dismissed guides or otherwise no longer employed by a specific outfitter as &quot;information only&quot; But, if one doesn't have first-hand experience, it's best not to repeat. That's called rumors. A guides comments may be quite viable, but it can often be shaded.

... nuff said!

Bill_H

<b>Some companies will inflate their prices and not put the money into their guides, equipment, etc. Roy's I learned while over there is an example of that.</b>

Melissa, Roy Safaris actually has relatively low-to-moderate prices, combined with excellent guides and jeeps. Ask dsxxxx I think you were misinformed by your guide.

We have taken three trips using Roy and used five different guides (the first trip we were part of a photo tour with 15 people in five jeeps and tried them all) and the guide we liked least (no longer with them) was pretty good and the four best were excellent. If you read the Fodor's reports many people who took trips with Roy raved about their guides and I haven't seen any complaints about the condition of the vehicles.

<b>For example, Roy's is indian owned and does not pay their guides a top pay scale. ... As such these companies do not attract quality guides.</b>

Are you basing this on personal experience, or just hear-say from one of their rivals (who apparently charges about 15-20% more, if recent price quotes from Fodorites are accurate)?

Again, the guides we've used from Roy were excellent. They are salaried employees paid all year even though there is little business for about 3 months during the rainy seasons, and they get naturalist training during the slow months to improve their skills.

Bill
(I have no connection with Roys other than as a client)

dssxxxx

I guess Sandi and Bill said it all.

There are lower prices than Roy Safari's, but on apples to apples, Roy is right around the same $$$'s. And for the same $$$'s, I will pick Roy.

And, there are a lot that are much, much higher, but then again, most of them are not Arusha based.

Cut the middleman out and use a reputable outfitter and save some big $$$'s.