Trip overbooked -
Nov 3rd, 2007, 03:27 PM
#21
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This has happened with me twice with thiws company. I am very hesitant to travel with them again. It took me 4 months to get my money back. I don't understand their US operations. Once you go on the tour it is good, but there are alot of hassles with the planning of the trip. I also had problems with them on air. They told me one thing. Confirmed it in writing and the last minute they changed everything. There is no one to talk to and you wait hours on line to get thru. After reading this I am determined to look elsewhere for my Botswana trip.
Nov 4th, 2007, 05:06 AM
#22
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I haven't replied to this thread yet because every time I think about how I'd feel if this happened to me I'm left speechless! It takes a lot to get me angry but when I do watch out. And this would definitely be one of those times!
Every time I plan a trip to Africa my brother in law hands me an OAT brochure because they are less expensive than other companies. Now I know why! And I can print this out and hand it back to him!
Every time I plan a trip to Africa my brother in law hands me an OAT brochure because they are less expensive than other companies. Now I know why! And I can print this out and hand it back to him!
Nov 4th, 2007, 05:21 AM
#23
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Lillipets, same here. I'd be both furious and incredibly disappointed at the same time. And it's not just a matter of refunding the costs of the trip, for some of us the annual leave we've booked cannot be rescheduled and so there's the stark choice of wasting precious annual leave at home or trying to find an alternative in very little time indeed.
As someone who really likes to take her time researching, choosing and booking holidays I'd find this hugely upsetting.
Rebelruth, if this has already happened to you more than once with this same outfit I'm surprised you were even contemplating giving them another change.
As the saying goes:
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
My husband and I seldom book group trips, it's simply not our preferred travelling style. But I did many such trips with my family during my childhood and my parents still book onto group trips now and again.
Should I see this company's name come up in any other travel chat environment I will certainly now warn people of their shoddy practices.
As someone who really likes to take her time researching, choosing and booking holidays I'd find this hugely upsetting.
Rebelruth, if this has already happened to you more than once with this same outfit I'm surprised you were even contemplating giving them another change.
As the saying goes:
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
My husband and I seldom book group trips, it's simply not our preferred travelling style. But I did many such trips with my family during my childhood and my parents still book onto group trips now and again.
Should I see this company's name come up in any other travel chat environment I will certainly now warn people of their shoddy practices.
Nov 5th, 2007, 06:05 AM
#24
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That's terrible, and also rather confusing, since they say that no changes can be made within 60 days of departure, so they should know at that point if they are overbooked. It does sound totally, totally, totally unacceptable.
I will say that they once called me and asked if I would volunteer to change my departure date by one day, because they were overbooked. It wasn't a problem for me, so it all turned out ok.
As other people have said, the Boston office seems quite unreliable and unresponsive. Once you actually get on a trip the transfers and arrangements are seamless and handled perfectly.
So while I totally understand the BBB complaints about the office and the overall reservations, I'm surprised to hear the BBB complaints about the actual ground portion of the trip.
I will say that they once called me and asked if I would volunteer to change my departure date by one day, because they were overbooked. It wasn't a problem for me, so it all turned out ok.
As other people have said, the Boston office seems quite unreliable and unresponsive. Once you actually get on a trip the transfers and arrangements are seamless and handled perfectly.
So while I totally understand the BBB complaints about the office and the overall reservations, I'm surprised to hear the BBB complaints about the actual ground portion of the trip.
Nov 5th, 2007, 08:59 AM
#25
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Having done what I always do in planning our Morocco trip (we leave next week), that is, go over budget, I was just rueing my decision not to do OAT. Not anymore!
jkr--I am so sorry this happened to you.
Thank you for posting so others will know. Your rational, documented complaint is one other travelers (like me!) will want to consider.
jkr--I am so sorry this happened to you.
Thank you for posting so others will know. Your rational, documented complaint is one other travelers (like me!) will want to consider.
Nov 5th, 2007, 09:06 AM
#26
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How horrible for you! We are planning a trip to Brazil and Peru next year and will NOT consider OAT.
I wonder what the ripple effect will be just through Fodors for cancellations with them and word of mouth to stay clear.
Here's hoping your next vacation is clear sailing!
I wonder what the ripple effect will be just through Fodors for cancellations with them and word of mouth to stay clear.
Here's hoping your next vacation is clear sailing!
Nov 6th, 2007, 05:35 AM
#27
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I've traveled with OAT many times and have have never had a problem. However, I don't understand why they would overbook on such small groups. Recently a friend had booked a trip to China with them. About a month before the trip, he was asked if he could reschedule due to overbooking. He was able to delay the trip for 2 weeks. OAT then gave him $1000 for the inconvenience, so he was not unhappy with the results and had a great trip.
Nov 6th, 2007, 05:54 AM
#28
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Piperpat, what if your friend, who seemingly had an abundance of flexibility, had been unable (or unwilling) to reschedule? I would wager that many of us do not have such flexibilty and would be unable to so easily delay a trip to China.
In the event of overbooking, I think that OAT should run a parallel trip for the excess travelers, even if they are forced to do so at a loss and even if that trip ends up being for a solo traveler.
They should suffer a penalty for overbooking!
In the event of overbooking, I think that OAT should run a parallel trip for the excess travelers, even if they are forced to do so at a loss and even if that trip ends up being for a solo traveler.
They should suffer a penalty for overbooking!
Nov 6th, 2007, 06:28 AM
#29
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If OAT used more rewards, perhaps they would not have the overbooking problem. The guy who rescheduled his China trip was happy with $1000. If no one could be found for $1000, then offer $1500, then $2000, and so on until enough people are enticed to re-book.
A worst case scenerio would be to run another trip, as Thit Cho suggests. If the big group plus the overbookers were split into two groups, it would result in smaller groups, a plus from the clients' viewpoint.
Some companies have policies of "we won't cancel." I know Natural Habitat does. But they are more expensive than OAT, which has some of the lowest prices I've seen.
For those who still go with OAT, I would monitor where you are in the booking pecking order from the start.
A worst case scenerio would be to run another trip, as Thit Cho suggests. If the big group plus the overbookers were split into two groups, it would result in smaller groups, a plus from the clients' viewpoint.
Some companies have policies of "we won't cancel." I know Natural Habitat does. But they are more expensive than OAT, which has some of the lowest prices I've seen.
For those who still go with OAT, I would monitor where you are in the booking pecking order from the start.
Nov 6th, 2007, 06:43 AM
#30
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I've read all the complaints against OAT and don't consider them inconsequential. However, I can only speak from personal experience, and I have never found them to be anything but efficient and accommodating. I would like to see a thread from all the thousands of people who love OAT - their itineraries, their wonderful guides, small groups, unique accommodations, close experiences with people in the country visited, combined with excellent prices. While other companies I've traveled with have been good, none have provided the experiences I've had with OAT. Also, these companies are not based in the USA, so I wonder if we would have access to the complaints against them like we do against OAT.
Nov 6th, 2007, 07:16 AM
#31
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I'm sure that OAT has many, many satisfied customers, but what I can't figure out is how they can have an overbooking problem so close to departure -- their Terms and Conditions require payment in full 90 days prior to departure. If they have a full slate at the 91st day, they should refrain from accepting new travelers until the 90th day, when they can fill any slots that open as travelers fail to make full payment (by the 90th day).
Nov 6th, 2007, 07:25 AM
#32
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In response to PIPERPAT, it seems that OAT may make sense if you have a flexible schedule and can take vacations whenever you want, which might be the case for some persons who are retired. However, for most people with jobs, where they have to request vacation time in advance, I can't see it ever being worth the price to use OAT (even factoring in a somewhat below market price and the possibility of a $1,000 or whatever sweetener they may throw at you if they cancel your trip with only a week's notice).
To PIPERPAT's point that OAT's poor record maybe isn't that out of line with non-US competitors, that may well be the case. But it DOES seem to be out of line with a number of U.S. competitors that are written about favorably on this board. My impression is that a company really has to tick off quite a lot of people to get an "unsatisfactory" rating from the Better Business Bureau. As was previously noted, this is what the BBB says about them: "Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record with the Bureau due to a pattern of complaints. Based on BBB files this company has a pattern of complaints concerning contract issues. Consumers state that they purchase vacations advertised with specific amenities and itineraries. Consumers state that they are not kept informed of changes made to trips until days before departing or sometimes changes are made while on the trip. Consumers state that the amenities, activities and locations of the hotels are not what was advertised and that adequate substitutions are not made. Consumers state that they are unable to receive refunds or reimbursements from the company. Consumers state that they are dissatisfied with the level of customer service they have received trying to find resolution to these issues. The Bureau processed a total of 112 complaints about this company in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period. Of the total 112 complaints closed in the last 36 months, 30 were closed in the last 12 months."
By contrast, Eyes on Africa and Born Free Safaris have "satisfactory" records, and the Africa Adventure Company has an A+ rating. So, there definitely are U.S. competitors with favorable ratings. It also seems that one of the reasons people choose to use a U.S. company is because there may be a better assurance of quality and more accountability (e.g., through the Better Business Bureau). It would seem that if you're going to pay a premium for using a U.S. company, you'd want to get a better product, or one that won't get canceled on you at the last minute. Otherwise, you're paying a premium for no reason. On the other hand, if I had lots of free time, and could cancel my vacations at the last minute, maybe I'd be willing to roll the dice with OAT. But it really does seem to be a gamble with them.
To PIPERPAT's point that OAT's poor record maybe isn't that out of line with non-US competitors, that may well be the case. But it DOES seem to be out of line with a number of U.S. competitors that are written about favorably on this board. My impression is that a company really has to tick off quite a lot of people to get an "unsatisfactory" rating from the Better Business Bureau. As was previously noted, this is what the BBB says about them: "Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record with the Bureau due to a pattern of complaints. Based on BBB files this company has a pattern of complaints concerning contract issues. Consumers state that they purchase vacations advertised with specific amenities and itineraries. Consumers state that they are not kept informed of changes made to trips until days before departing or sometimes changes are made while on the trip. Consumers state that the amenities, activities and locations of the hotels are not what was advertised and that adequate substitutions are not made. Consumers state that they are unable to receive refunds or reimbursements from the company. Consumers state that they are dissatisfied with the level of customer service they have received trying to find resolution to these issues. The Bureau processed a total of 112 complaints about this company in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period. Of the total 112 complaints closed in the last 36 months, 30 were closed in the last 12 months."
By contrast, Eyes on Africa and Born Free Safaris have "satisfactory" records, and the Africa Adventure Company has an A+ rating. So, there definitely are U.S. competitors with favorable ratings. It also seems that one of the reasons people choose to use a U.S. company is because there may be a better assurance of quality and more accountability (e.g., through the Better Business Bureau). It would seem that if you're going to pay a premium for using a U.S. company, you'd want to get a better product, or one that won't get canceled on you at the last minute. Otherwise, you're paying a premium for no reason. On the other hand, if I had lots of free time, and could cancel my vacations at the last minute, maybe I'd be willing to roll the dice with OAT. But it really does seem to be a gamble with them.
Nov 6th, 2007, 03:24 PM
#33
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Just to clarify what OAT's posted terms and conditions say on their website, re. overbooking and schedule changes:
"13. In certain circumstances, OAT overbooks its trips to offset anticipated cancellations. If, up to four days prior to departure, more passengers are booked than can be accommodated, OAT will solicit volunteers to change their reservations. Customers affected by overbooking will receive compensation and will be offered an alternative departure date.
14. In certain circumstances, OAT may change the departure date of your trip or consolidate any trips that do not reach a minimum level of participation or are overbooked. In this event, you will be offered an alternative departure date or trip. If we are not able to agree upon a suitable alternative, you will be entitled to cancel your reservation and receive a full refund of your Trip Price plus any cost you paid for the Travel Protection Plan."
OAT and GCT do extremely high volume business, largely with repeat travelers. The rate of complaints is a small fraction of 1%. In a perfect world, there would be no problems, but this is not a perfect world. After 8 trips with GCT, we have no complaints.
Jack and Ann
"13. In certain circumstances, OAT overbooks its trips to offset anticipated cancellations. If, up to four days prior to departure, more passengers are booked than can be accommodated, OAT will solicit volunteers to change their reservations. Customers affected by overbooking will receive compensation and will be offered an alternative departure date.
14. In certain circumstances, OAT may change the departure date of your trip or consolidate any trips that do not reach a minimum level of participation or are overbooked. In this event, you will be offered an alternative departure date or trip. If we are not able to agree upon a suitable alternative, you will be entitled to cancel your reservation and receive a full refund of your Trip Price plus any cost you paid for the Travel Protection Plan."
OAT and GCT do extremely high volume business, largely with repeat travelers. The rate of complaints is a small fraction of 1%. In a perfect world, there would be no problems, but this is not a perfect world. After 8 trips with GCT, we have no complaints.
Jack and Ann
Nov 6th, 2007, 04:43 PM
#35
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It sounds to me like they reserve inventory with a ground outfitter, and they are not the only one reserving these spots. The problem in an agent/ground outfitter situation is the total lack of control if your ground outfitter decides to play by different rules. Contrast or no contract, it is a lack of control. I suspect OAT got stung really bad, and their customers (you) are paying the price. OAT is a large enough company that they could or should have their own vehicles on the ground in Tanzania. They don't, unfortunately.
Nov 7th, 2007, 02:28 PM
#36
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Andy, jkr2006 was going to Egypt, not Tanzania. However, your scenario could still be accurate. I know that they sometimes run multiple trips in Egypt at the same time (we had 4 groups of 16, which upset a lot of people.) You'd think they could have found some way to accomodate her. There's no excuse for them to do what they did.
As an aside, OAT's outfitter in Tanzania, Kibo Guides, is an excellent organization. I don't think they would ever be the cause of something like this. In fact, I doubt it was the Egyptian office's fault, either. I've traveled with OAT three times and it's always the Boston office that messes something up.
As an aside, OAT's outfitter in Tanzania, Kibo Guides, is an excellent organization. I don't think they would ever be the cause of something like this. In fact, I doubt it was the Egyptian office's fault, either. I've traveled with OAT three times and it's always the Boston office that messes something up.
Nov 7th, 2007, 02:50 PM
#37
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I am waiting for an OAT rep to chime in here.
In the meantime I guess I need to retire, become flexible in my travel dates, book OAT trips, hope for a rescheduling from them, pocket the money they give me for the inconvenience, and see the world for less.
In the meantime I guess I need to retire, become flexible in my travel dates, book OAT trips, hope for a rescheduling from them, pocket the money they give me for the inconvenience, and see the world for less.
Nov 7th, 2007, 03:18 PM
#38
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<b>what I can't figure out is how they can have an overbooking problem so close to departure</b>
Different business, but probably similar circumstances ... owner of a remote fishing lodge whom I know well had 11 rooms/boats not rented and a group came in late needing 13 rooms or no go ... so he decided to book them and screw two people who had reservations ... this is one reason these kinds of things happen, a bigger group will dominate singles or doubles ... this also happens at safari lodges, or so I've been told.
Bill
Different business, but probably similar circumstances ... owner of a remote fishing lodge whom I know well had 11 rooms/boats not rented and a group came in late needing 13 rooms or no go ... so he decided to book them and screw two people who had reservations ... this is one reason these kinds of things happen, a bigger group will dominate singles or doubles ... this also happens at safari lodges, or so I've been told.
Bill
Nov 7th, 2007, 04:12 PM
#39
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"In the meantime I guess I need to retire, become flexible in my travel dates, book OAT trips, hope for a rescheduling from them, pocket the money they give me for the inconvenience, and see the world for less."
I can almost see the ad now...
I can almost see the ad now...
Nov 7th, 2007, 04:32 PM
#40
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<<what I can't figure out is how they can have an overbooking problem so close to departure
Different business, but probably similar circumstances ... owner of a remote fishing lodge whom I know well had 11 rooms/boats not rented and a group came in late needing 13 rooms or no go ... so he decided to book them and screw two people who had reservations ... this is one reason these kinds of things happen, a bigger group will dominate singles or doubles ... this also happens at safari lodges, or so I've been told>>
That may be the case, but if OAT had done that, it would have violated their Terms and Conditions, which I had read before posting. I'm not sure how OAT justifies late cancelations in light for their T's and C's.
Different business, but probably similar circumstances ... owner of a remote fishing lodge whom I know well had 11 rooms/boats not rented and a group came in late needing 13 rooms or no go ... so he decided to book them and screw two people who had reservations ... this is one reason these kinds of things happen, a bigger group will dominate singles or doubles ... this also happens at safari lodges, or so I've been told>>
That may be the case, but if OAT had done that, it would have violated their Terms and Conditions, which I had read before posting. I'm not sure how OAT justifies late cancelations in light for their T's and C's.
