Travel Agents Please Identify Yourselves!
Oct 20th, 2006, 05:46 AM
#61
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To the Editor
Outrageous - you've blocked some of the folks who offered some of the best advice on this board; both Eben and Rocco are great contributors to the Africa Forums. I've been reading this board for over a year now (way too much) and I can state that I never felt that were advertising, just giving great, free advice to anyone who asked for it.
If promoting Africa is wrong, then ban all of us.
Outrageous - you've blocked some of the folks who offered some of the best advice on this board; both Eben and Rocco are great contributors to the Africa Forums. I've been reading this board for over a year now (way too much) and I can state that I never felt that were advertising, just giving great, free advice to anyone who asked for it.
If promoting Africa is wrong, then ban all of us.
Oct 20th, 2006, 05:53 AM
#62
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Wow. I lurk here (safari'd in Aug 2005 and still love to come see the chat and see photos). I truly appreciate how generously the people who are "agents" give their time and expertise to this board. Rocco and Eben have offered so much without ever promoting themselves. I will express my displeasure in a letter to the editors.
I know we get riled when Fodor's removes "negative" threads but I find that somewhat excusable--this board isn't meant to be a place for mudslinging but travel planning. I always thought the Africa board did the best at avoiding all the cattiness and just getting down to what we all love--African travel. This decision to block Rocco and Eben is really inexcusable, Fodors.
Africa is unique. While many are drawn there again and again, often many make it a once-in-a-lifetime trip. It would be a shame to have a board full of one-timers offering advice --there's the blind leading the blind! I have been once and post now and again about my one-time experience because I KNOW an expert will follow up with in-depth advice or specifics. My advice standing alone would be awful. You cannot put a price on the help you get from Rocco, Sandi, and Eben who assist people with evaluating, planning, and weeding out "novice" advice.
I know we get riled when Fodor's removes "negative" threads but I find that somewhat excusable--this board isn't meant to be a place for mudslinging but travel planning. I always thought the Africa board did the best at avoiding all the cattiness and just getting down to what we all love--African travel. This decision to block Rocco and Eben is really inexcusable, Fodors.
Africa is unique. While many are drawn there again and again, often many make it a once-in-a-lifetime trip. It would be a shame to have a board full of one-timers offering advice --there's the blind leading the blind! I have been once and post now and again about my one-time experience because I KNOW an expert will follow up with in-depth advice or specifics. My advice standing alone would be awful. You cannot put a price on the help you get from Rocco, Sandi, and Eben who assist people with evaluating, planning, and weeding out "novice" advice.
Oct 20th, 2006, 06:04 AM
#63
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I think Rocco made a huge mistake in adding his business e-mail to his user name. In the past that has always been sufficient to break the rules on advertising. Rocco et al should be reinstated. I do not think TA's should disclose their interests, rather they should post as Rocco usually has giving their experience, without reference to their commercial ventures. If their clients wish to mention them in their own posts that is fine and acceptable. It does seem unreasonable that in years past on Fodors a user name with a commerical e-mail warranted an instant close down of an account, in recent times those rules have been relaxed (or not enforced) I assume that goes to a time factor for the Fodors staff.
Bottom line, everyone knows the rules and should stick to them.
Bottom line, everyone knows the rules and should stick to them.
Oct 20th, 2006, 06:06 AM
#64
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What a ridiculous move on the part of the editors. If they actually read the posts they would understand the dynamics here. The TAs on fodors don't sell, they provide valuable information for all of our trips. Editors: don't ban, join.
Oct 20th, 2006, 06:15 AM
#65
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To the Editor:
I am a relatively new recruit to the Fodorite world and have only asked a couple of questions as I plan my 2007 Africa trip. On this basis I thought I'd contribute my opinion as a relatively new participant.
I have been reading the various posts while I make my plans for my 2007 trip and have found Roccco and Sandi's insights very helpful. They have pinpointed issues that I hadn't considered and given me questions to ask the travel agents that I am working with.
Although I realized relatively quickly that they were agents, I never felt that there was any solicitation, in fact I have been impressed by the lack thereof. (I didn't even know what company Roccco or Sandi were part of until this thread.)
I already miss the input from them on this forum after only one day. I cannot imagine having their helpful insights blocked permanently.
Please reconsider this decision and consider some of the less drastic measures suggested here.
Shari
I am a relatively new recruit to the Fodorite world and have only asked a couple of questions as I plan my 2007 Africa trip. On this basis I thought I'd contribute my opinion as a relatively new participant.
I have been reading the various posts while I make my plans for my 2007 trip and have found Roccco and Sandi's insights very helpful. They have pinpointed issues that I hadn't considered and given me questions to ask the travel agents that I am working with.
Although I realized relatively quickly that they were agents, I never felt that there was any solicitation, in fact I have been impressed by the lack thereof. (I didn't even know what company Roccco or Sandi were part of until this thread.)
I already miss the input from them on this forum after only one day. I cannot imagine having their helpful insights blocked permanently.
Please reconsider this decision and consider some of the less drastic measures suggested here.
Shari
Oct 20th, 2006, 06:27 AM
#66
I don't understand why Eben and Rocco were blocked. Was Sandi? When I read the post from the Fodors Editor, they acknowledged that the contributions from the agents are valuable
"<b>We do recognize that many travelers, some who happen to be agents, have contributed immensely to this board.</b> A clearer policy is in the works. Your comments, sent to [email protected], are always welcome."
As soon as I read this post from a Fodors Editor, I did send them my comments. I did not know when I sent this email that Rocco and Eben had been banned. This is what I sent.
<i>Good evening Editors
I love the Africa forum at Fodors and have posted there for quite awhile. I do not have a problem with the agents posting there. I may be a little obtuse but I didn't know sandi was an agent for a couple of YEARS. I even asked her once how she knew so much about Africa and if she had a photographic memory and she still didn't say she worked for an agency.
It would be a very boring place and the amount of information available would be greatly diminished without them. (I think it was much slower before the agents started showing up.) I have learned so much from their contributions and I know others have too.
At Fodors, you discover that you don't have to take a group trip and pay immense prices to A&K or Thomsons just so you know you'll be safe in Africa. Normal everyday people can plan a trip (somewhat within any budget) with the guidance and information freely posted by the regular travelers and agents.
And yes, Rocco gets on everybody's nerves sometimes but he was the same (or worse) before he was an agent. Rocco fell head over heels in love with Africa (like so many of us have after one trip) and he was smart enough to make it part of his life.
So, be sure to consult me before you make any changes. (kidding) I can't imagine what your policy change might be but I hope it doesn't disrupt the way things are now.
Thanks for listening
sundowner</i>
"<b>We do recognize that many travelers, some who happen to be agents, have contributed immensely to this board.</b> A clearer policy is in the works. Your comments, sent to [email protected], are always welcome."
As soon as I read this post from a Fodors Editor, I did send them my comments. I did not know when I sent this email that Rocco and Eben had been banned. This is what I sent.
<i>Good evening Editors
I love the Africa forum at Fodors and have posted there for quite awhile. I do not have a problem with the agents posting there. I may be a little obtuse but I didn't know sandi was an agent for a couple of YEARS. I even asked her once how she knew so much about Africa and if she had a photographic memory and she still didn't say she worked for an agency.
It would be a very boring place and the amount of information available would be greatly diminished without them. (I think it was much slower before the agents started showing up.) I have learned so much from their contributions and I know others have too.
At Fodors, you discover that you don't have to take a group trip and pay immense prices to A&K or Thomsons just so you know you'll be safe in Africa. Normal everyday people can plan a trip (somewhat within any budget) with the guidance and information freely posted by the regular travelers and agents.
And yes, Rocco gets on everybody's nerves sometimes but he was the same (or worse) before he was an agent. Rocco fell head over heels in love with Africa (like so many of us have after one trip) and he was smart enough to make it part of his life.
So, be sure to consult me before you make any changes. (kidding) I can't imagine what your policy change might be but I hope it doesn't disrupt the way things are now.
Thanks for listening
sundowner</i>
Oct 20th, 2006, 06:31 AM
#67
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I have also written the editors regarding this ridiculous banning and even though I haven't contributed much here, I love reading the reports and advice in anticipation of my next trip to Africa.
Oct 20th, 2006, 06:31 AM
#68
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A copy of my message to the editor:
Dear Editors,
I am writing about the recent banning of certain contributors to your East Africa forum. I am very new to the site, and found it while researching a trip I am planning to Tanzania for Sept., 2007. The objective information provided by many people on the forum was the best I have seen in online forums or travel books, completely even-handed, fresh, and offering many different perspectives and options. Not even realizing that he had a travel company, I contacted one member, Eben, just to get his thoughts on a few places that I knew he had been. It was not until I asked him what he did that I found out he was a professional. I was already working with an agent at the time, planning a trip to the south and west, and I was looking for somebody to help me with the northern leg. Knowing that I was already working with another operator, and feeling that the complicated trip that I was planning might be better handled by just one agent, Eben tried to TURN AWAY MY BUSINESS by suggesting that I try to do the whole trip through my other agent. My other agent does not handle the north, so I have been working very happily with Eben, but at no time was I solicited or pressured.
The forum members do a great job of 'outing' inappropriate people. Obviously operators will benefit from being a part of the forum, and I am sure they get a lot of business through it, but if they have been contributing in a positive, informative, objective and non-soliciting way for years, and have become trusted members of the community, why WOULDN'T we want to do business with them or hear their advice? Any solicting by them, 'shilling', or bad performance in doing actual business, would have immediate and disasterous consequences to them online.
Please reconsider your recent bans....we truly appreciate your efforts to keep this forum honest and
a great objective resource, but you should also consider the member's ability to police themselves!!
thanks
Dear Editors,
I am writing about the recent banning of certain contributors to your East Africa forum. I am very new to the site, and found it while researching a trip I am planning to Tanzania for Sept., 2007. The objective information provided by many people on the forum was the best I have seen in online forums or travel books, completely even-handed, fresh, and offering many different perspectives and options. Not even realizing that he had a travel company, I contacted one member, Eben, just to get his thoughts on a few places that I knew he had been. It was not until I asked him what he did that I found out he was a professional. I was already working with an agent at the time, planning a trip to the south and west, and I was looking for somebody to help me with the northern leg. Knowing that I was already working with another operator, and feeling that the complicated trip that I was planning might be better handled by just one agent, Eben tried to TURN AWAY MY BUSINESS by suggesting that I try to do the whole trip through my other agent. My other agent does not handle the north, so I have been working very happily with Eben, but at no time was I solicited or pressured.
The forum members do a great job of 'outing' inappropriate people. Obviously operators will benefit from being a part of the forum, and I am sure they get a lot of business through it, but if they have been contributing in a positive, informative, objective and non-soliciting way for years, and have become trusted members of the community, why WOULDN'T we want to do business with them or hear their advice? Any solicting by them, 'shilling', or bad performance in doing actual business, would have immediate and disasterous consequences to them online.
Please reconsider your recent bans....we truly appreciate your efforts to keep this forum honest and
a great objective resource, but you should also consider the member's ability to police themselves!!
thanks
Oct 20th, 2006, 06:50 AM
#69
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Rocco, Eben, Sandi blocked? Who else? I can't believe this. Editors....here I come, what are you thinking?
Please let me say how important it is to have the contributions of these fine people on this forum as I would not have even thought it was possible to customize a trip to Africa with out them.
Can I also say how "attached" I have become to this community (including the TA's)...so much as to take a wild leap out of my comfort zone to recently suggest and attend a " Fodors get together". Rocco is not only unselfishly generous on this board but remember he opened his home up to complete strangers for the evening, so we could all share our love of Africa.
It would be a shame to have to depart from this board, but I too would take this step if the TA's were to be banned. Please reinstate Rocco, Eben & Sandi.
Please let me say how important it is to have the contributions of these fine people on this forum as I would not have even thought it was possible to customize a trip to Africa with out them.
Can I also say how "attached" I have become to this community (including the TA's)...so much as to take a wild leap out of my comfort zone to recently suggest and attend a " Fodors get together". Rocco is not only unselfishly generous on this board but remember he opened his home up to complete strangers for the evening, so we could all share our love of Africa.
It would be a shame to have to depart from this board, but I too would take this step if the TA's were to be banned. Please reinstate Rocco, Eben & Sandi.
Oct 20th, 2006, 06:59 AM
#72
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Keep the agents off. Let them advertise if they want to reach clients.
I am just as awed by the passion that Rocco and other agents have for Africa.
But this is not the place for their self-serving promotion.
It's a place for honest opinions of travelers.
Rocco and others can't provide that because they only promote places they choose to promote.
For example, did you know that he tries to get discounts and when operators refuse, he badmouths their camp or just keeps silent about them.
So no matter how great those places are, you, the traveler, won't ever
know about them . . .
Kind of makes you feel used, doesn't it?
I am just as awed by the passion that Rocco and other agents have for Africa.
But this is not the place for their self-serving promotion.
It's a place for honest opinions of travelers.
Rocco and others can't provide that because they only promote places they choose to promote.
For example, did you know that he tries to get discounts and when operators refuse, he badmouths their camp or just keeps silent about them.
So no matter how great those places are, you, the traveler, won't ever
know about them . . .
Kind of makes you feel used, doesn't it?
Oct 20th, 2006, 08:11 AM
#77
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<i>"Rocco and others can't provide that because they only promote places they choose to promote"</i>
Utter tosh sir: you obviously have not read Eben's posts or Rocco's for that matter.
Agreed about commercial email in user name, so reinstate without. But where does that apply to Sandi and Climbhighsleeplow?
Now before this carries on ad infinitum, let us please have a full explanation from the fodors editors thus to clarify the situation once and for all and put an end to any more speculation.
Matt
Utter tosh sir: you obviously have not read Eben's posts or Rocco's for that matter.
Agreed about commercial email in user name, so reinstate without. But where does that apply to Sandi and Climbhighsleeplow?
Now before this carries on ad infinitum, let us please have a full explanation from the fodors editors thus to clarify the situation once and for all and put an end to any more speculation.
Matt
Oct 20th, 2006, 08:16 AM
#78
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Agreed Matt, it does not make sense about Eben. In fact it took me forever to work out he had a commercial interest, which is the way it should be, though I don't spend much time looking at EA threads.
Oct 20th, 2006, 08:31 AM
#80
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"Rocco did not get blocked until he used his commercial e-mail address in his user name, that's against the rules, it has been enforced in the past, so why not now."
I realize this post could be read in the wrong way. I was merely pointing to the coincidence. Rocco indicated this was not the reason and I am glad to be able to set the matter straight.
I realize this post could be read in the wrong way. I was merely pointing to the coincidence. Rocco indicated this was not the reason and I am glad to be able to set the matter straight.
