I do understand Wayuu's questions and point of view. Many is the time I have felt that a tip is obligatory, and not thanks for a job well done.

I don't think Wayuu is trying to 'stiff' anyone.

In some countries (e.g. NZ) people make a point of saying no tips are neccessary for a job well done. In other places, tips are accepted but the tipper is not neccessarily admired, but rather not too bright for not recognizing the value of money.

I think that when places get used to American tourists, the tipping becomes expected and then obligatory. People that don't tip, or that tip comparatively less are then seen as being 'tight'.

Slightly off topic, I often wonder how it is decided here in the US who gets a tip and who dosen't.

People who provide a service get tipped. Why don't you tip the doctor?
Because Professionals aren't typically given tips?

So does that mean anyone with a college degree dosen't get tipped? Guides and concierge staff receive professional training but get tips.

I'd love for any of you to answer this (without the snide comments). This may also help Wayuu understand the American frame of mind...

TIPS - to insure proper or prompt service.

Generally, TIPS go to service personnel - waiters, doormen, bellmen, cab drivers, delivery people, housekeepers, etc.

I'm sure a tip to your physician wouldn't improve the wait time in their office; having your attorney or accountant return your call; the pilot to fly the plane any faster (and of late, let you off the plane if it's not getting off the runway.

Take a look at Wikipedia's explanation of "TIP" as the process works throughout the world:

"These payments and their size are a matter of social custom."

There is nothing specific about East Africa but ground operators are informing travellers of local social customs by giving them suggested guidelines.

Sandi,
You make a very good point. In fact I did postgraduate work in England (I was qualified in both eh U.S. and Britain)and it was the custom to pay professionals their bills in guineas, at that time the value was one pound one shilling = one guinea. I though it amusing and a colleague explained it was the British custom and likened it to tipping in America. It's all about local custom and what the host country expects. When American travel abroad I think they generally try and determine the expectation of the host country and not offend their hosts. Obviously WayuU and Femi have different views, Femi sure dosen't speak for the Americans I know.
Regards, Chuck

I wonder if any of you know if its true that the Japenese seldom tip? Safari guides have told me this - but the reason is founded in cultural etiquette apparently. Their reasonong appears to be that to tip implies that the recipient is incapable of earning enough to support his family without the aid of charity. Hence they don't tip so as not to insult their driver/guide. The drivers apparently like them because they are so courteous and polite, but don't want to drive them if they have a chance of driving another nationality.

True or not - I don't know but would love anyone here to enlighten me if they can please.

In general I have to say I try to tip well, but only if the help is given with a good heart. In summary, I'd like my money taken off me nicely and I have declined to tip a sulky or grumpy driver, but thankfully these are a rare breed.

Femi, Thanks for the heads up on New Zealand but isn't this the Africa Forum? Try your philosophy out in toilets of Egypt.
Regards, Chuck

Hi,

Unless I have overlooked, what's missing from all these posts is the immediate, impact on the underpaid driver/guide/porter/cook etc. when they are not tipped properly. Must their child drop out of school because the parent can't afford the cost of a uniform? Must treatment of an acute infection be declined? Does the family not eat for a day? It is all well and good to say let the economic system work it all out but that leaves far to many people suffering and destitute. My daughters waited tables while in college. The custom in our part of the U.S., maybe throughout, is for the employer to pay half the minimum wage with employee expected to make up the rest through tips. We expect to take our first trip to Africa/Tanzania Jan. 08. We will tip according to local custom.

Cheers,
Robert

Femi, then perhaps WayuU should look for a New Zealand guide for his Kenya trip, then they'll all be happy.

Well said Robert. Consider the impact on the underpaid work staff at the camps. I always place my tips in the camp Tip Box and then slip a bit extra into the hands of people who have gone out of their way to be helpful. The smiles leave a lasting impression, equal to the fabulous Leopard in a tree sighting I may have witnessed in their camp. When traveling in these countries, it is important to keep in mind that unemployement is very high (over 45% in Botswana), Aids and Malaria take an incredible toll on the vigor of these people. Tipping is an important part of their income and goes far to make their lives a bit easier. If at all possible and you are traveling on a tight budget, spend one day less on safari and tip. I would like to see some comments regarding the hard work the driver/spotters and guides do, day after day. It is hard physical work and yet they remain cheerful. If this post offends some of you I'm truely sorry but this is an important facet of support for eco tourisim.
Regards, Chuck

Tipping can be confusing and maybe a bit perplexing when you are from a country where it is not prevalent. When I visit another country I always ensure I am aware of their tipping etiquette so that I know what the norm is and can therefore make my assessment of what is fair for the service I have received. When on a trip I always expect good service therefore I will always account for tipping in my budget if it is a norm in that country. This is what I did when I went on our recent safari and as I expected the service was fantastic throughout and our tips reflected that.

When in a country where tipping is the norm and it ‘makes up’ a persons wage, as in Kenya, I see it as an exchange in that ‘you’ have provided me with the service I expected and my tip (ie the norm) reflects my gratitude of that service. If I was to be dissatisfied with the service I would lower my tip accordingly, conversely, if the person went over and beyond my expectations I would increase my tip accordingly. In a country where it is not the norm but accepted, I see tipping as an additional thanks for an excellent service that has gone above and beyond expectations.

I do think that tipping terrible service in whatever country demeans the service given by those who actually earn their tip and do a good job. I have thankfully rarely been in that situation and certainly wasn’t in Africa

I hope you have a good trip WayuU and that you are given fantastic service that you will feel very happy about rewarding

Mancfi: You said it better than I could.

QueenofDaNile: That does serve to clarify the issue a litle.

Sandi: I wonder, if I tipped the doctor's front-office person, would she sneak me up to the front of the line? Just a thought

Chuck: The OP did say he was widely traveled and was comparing safari customs to what he has experienced in the past.

Mancifi is right!!! When travelling to a country, go by their norms.....if you go to a safari camp, there is a certain etiquette and it is best to ask your travel agent. If in doubt, ask the camp/lodge for their recommendations.

Rgds,
Hari

Are there any safari lodges that pay their staff good wages that reflect the price we are paying per night. Coming from Australia where tipping is not normal I find doing so very stressful. I am prepared to pay for good service but at $2000 per room per night would expect it as a given and that service charges are included. Surely it is the lodge owners who are at fault here for paying poor wages. We are staying 14 nights in safari lodges in South Africa and budgeting $750 for tips. Is yhis enough

kimac~ $750.00 divided by 14 nights is around $54.00 divided by 2 people (I'm assuming it's 2) gives you about $27 a day per person for tips. That is plenty, possibly a bit much but you might even WANT to give more. just don't stress and have a good time!
Yes, at $2000 a night it SHOULD be a given, but it's NOT the way it is in Africa.

Femi - wish it were, but I doubt it would help For a regular visit (non-emergency) and I've waited too long (more than 30/min.) I simply reschedule. Hey, my time is as important as the doc. Between travel to/from, time to wait, the actual visit (my doc happens to be quite liberal and affords me all the time I need)... then 2/hrs is more than sufficient time for this slot in my Day-Planner.

Even at $1,000+/day/person, paid to the high-end lux tour outfitters, who already include the tips for staff, they leave it to the client to handle the gratuities to the guide/driver and tour leader.

A thank you to amolkarnik and Femi for being among the very few who understand my point of view and for being strong enough to support it and for viewing it rationally.
Canary111 seems understanding too.

mancfi wrote:
"I hope you have a good trip WayuU and that you are given fantastic service that you will feel very happy about rewarding "
Thank you mancfi.
As I think you understood from my posts, I will be tipping, of course. Depending on the service my tipping will vary.



Bobcaat wrote:
"WayuU - You seem to know the way you believe the world should work; but you do not accept that this is not how the world works in a lot of places."

That is a key point. Exactly, I do NOT accept how the world works. That's is the big difference between me and 95% of the rest of the worlds population. I try to change it, however futile it might be. I don't give up on making the world a better place. The rest just follow the path of least resistance and at the most pay off some money from their big salaries to satisfy their need to help, be it the Red Cross, WWF, etc..
I know some who do this are genuinely into the charity of their choice and they will try to live environmentally friendly or volunteer their time off to children in need, etc. But we are all too few.
I am betting that most of you that complain to me are at most the ones who pay a little sum of money and then go and sleep well thinking you're doing a great thing. Many of you who complain to me haven't impressed much at all since you have shown a lack of ability to read the posts correctly, twisting them to your own satisfaction, especially such ppl as safarichuck.

I DO wonder how many of you, who complain to me, would change your job and start working for an NCO with minimum wage for the rest of your life because you actually want and do change this world to a better place, however small steps they may be.


QueenofDaNile:
Do not state Wikipedia as a source when you want to point out facts. Wikipedia is managed by everyone and known for it's numerous errors. The founder of Wikipedia has even gotten so tired of all the errors he's now starting a new service where only professionals will be allowed to edit the contents.
I'm not saying that what you stated from that source is wrong, but other sources should be prioritized.


matnikstym:
I don't know where you got entertainment from, but our trip does not say anything about our driver/guide entertaining us. The rest, well, those are specified as included in the itinerary we got. They would have been specified as extras otherwise.



I'm not a fan of the human race, but if more ppl took action instead of following the path of least resistance, then there could still be time to save this sorry race AND a beautiful, wonderful world, soon destroyed.

My post has done at least some good, created a discussion and maybe some will read the posts correctly and reflect on what has been said.
MAYBE a new volunteer or person dedicating her/himself to making changes.

I certainly have taken some posts from complaining individuals seriously, like sandi (and some others). Others like safarichuck just "scare" me

_________________________________

"It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value"

WayuU,
Good, that was my intention.
Chuck

Wayu,

Is one really doing a good thing when in the course of trying to change the world one hurts the common man in a third world country?

I admire your sacrifice in helping wildlife. But to not tip properly in accordance with the norm of the country one visits is not helpful nor nice.

I have always felt that tipping is something given for a job done well or over and above expectations. In parts of the world tipping is considered mandatory and although I don’t agree with mandatory tipping, I will always tip in these countries. I do feel strongly though that levels of tipping should be up to the individual and not prescribed.

Very interesting thread that does point out some of the cultural differences amongst people.
I have always told my children that a tip is not a gratuity...it may seem they are one and the same and just a matter of semantics but they are not. I understood that TIP was an acronym for "To Insure Promptness"...hence given before a service in hopes of better or quicker service while a gratuity was given to thank the service person for a job well done.
Obviously those terms have become muddled and gratuities are now considered the norm for some services and not for others.
There was a famous NY restaurant that some years ago took part of the waiters' gratuities and used them to help defray the chefs' salaries. Needless to say, when this became public it created a bit of an issue.
Similarly it would appear to me that when a company can charge $500-1500pppn that the staff ought to receive adequate wages that the tourist should not feel they are the ones paying the majority of the wage while the company's owners reap the financial windfall. Sadly however that is not the case and we choose, maybe not wisely and merely to perpetuate the supplementation the paltry salaries that are paid.
Chuck, I actually had a patient give me $20 when I was a resident after coming to see her in the ER. She felt that I was underpaid and that my service to her on a weekend was above and beyond. I was really taken aback, didn't accept the money but was so appreciative of the act that I remember the experience of over 20yrs ago as if it were yesterday.
I will choose to give as generously as I can and hope that those who are able to afford such luxurious trips recognize their responsibilty to be generous. ( In additon being charitable is everyone's responsibility, but that is a different issue). I do not however believe it is my "right" to tell people how much they have to give but giving guidelines is certainly appropriate.
Regards,
Eric