makinghay

I have scheduled with OAT for their Safari Serengeti.(A 2 week trip). I chose mid-September because I had originally hoped to tack on our own post trip to St Lucia, and on down the coast.
Now I know I cannot do a break-away from this OAT trip, and adding on their Morocco trip (which I had considered) would put us in the desert when it was too hot.

I am wondering if I should back up the trip to mid-August, when it is a bit cooler. That is my simple question!

Does anyone have an opinion on this? I think I had originally avoided August because I thought it was more crowded then. But mostly, I was trying to aim for decent weather on the coast.

Next question:

Looking at other options,I could back out of this OAT commitment, choose a different agent for the Tanzania portion, and try to do the southern coastal area after all. I had tried to do that in the first place, but could find no tours comparable to OAT's in length and inclusions for anywhere near OAT's price. (About $5500 each for the two weeks, including air.)

But I hate to travel so far and at such expense then have to leave after 2 weeks. There is so much I want to see and do in Africa!

Could a couple of active seniors safely do the coast on their own? Is their an itinerary and guide you could suggest? Could it be done inexpensively? This would be a scenic and cultural road trip, not a safari. We have no need to stay in luxurious lodging. I just want to see as much as possible. (Next trip will have to be Botswana!)

All suggestions welcome! I REALLY need your help! Sorry for the convoluted questions. I will have to get back to this in a couple of days...leaving on Grandchild trip in the early morning!

kimburu

I am sure you can do this comfortably under-budget and stay as long as you like. In August you might be able to get group trips too, but if you don't mind just the two of you and your guide there are lots of options. Here's something on a reasonable budget for two, just to give you an idea. It would be easy to add a Zanzibar or Mafia or Saadani extension to this kind of thing.... or stay more nights at any of the accommodations. I'm not necessarily recommending this - although it looks nice to me, just putting it forwards as an example of what's available - from stuff that happens to be saved in my Favorites.

http://www.tanzania-adventure.com/so...oastbyroad.htm

kimburu

Note also it starts from Arusha. Dar or Zanzibar-based operators might have a better deal.

Patty

Where is St Lucia?

Dana_M

St. Lucia is in KwaZuluNatal, South Africa.

sandi

Dana - you beat me to it.

Patty

I know <i>that</i> St Lucia but I didn't think that's what the OP meant.

Dana_M

I only know of two St. Lucia's and the other is in the Caribbean. Maybe the OP will come back and tell us if there's a third.

makinghay

Hi, This is the OP. What is an OP?

I never got back to this because I've been busy exploring the logistics and airfares,etc. I have decided to do the Kwazulu Natal and So Africa tour in conjunction with my NEXT Africa trip which I hope will be next year to Botswana. Have award miles to use if I start planning soon enough! Just got this started too late to put it all together...complicated.

Dana and sandi got it right about St.Lucia. I'm surprised that some of you don't branch out to see these areas. KwaZulu, Swaziland, Wildcoast..They sound different and very beautiful. The Garden Route and Cape Town photos look amazingly beautiful.

Without an extension, I am disappointed to have only a 14 day (an 11 day safari,really)stint this time, but maybe it will feel like enough.
I'll be back to torture you with questions next time around.

Per Forum suggestions on another thread (sorry, I'm new at this.) I have decided to change our tour from Sept. to early August. I do still have one question that is keeping me from making my final move.

Since we will be in the No.Serengeti in a mobile camp for four full days in early August, our chances of seeing the migration should be quite good. Is there still reason to do OAT's Mara extension?

To recap, the extension reads like this:

Overland Arusha to Naiarobi
Air to Mara...3 full days in Mara tented camp. Includes nature walk,game drives and Maasai village visit. (I don't know if this is the &quot;staged&quot; visit you've written about.

This dilemma probably seems silly to you, but we are talking about yet another $1100 for the 4 nights, AND, I do have reservations about being in Kenya when the people are still under threat. It just seems disrespectful. The State Dept. does say things seem to be improving, but still volatile. I also don't think trip insurance covers the area.

So, if you will again share your wisdom....I thank you.

I think it was ShayTay who suggest a FAQ column. I think it would be the perfect answer to your having to help each of us newbies individually.

atravelynn

FAQ is a good idea.

As for branching out to other areas, I am working my butt off to get enough money to be able to branch.

Your travel plans are never silly when you are trying to get your trip right. As for the additional 4 nights in the Mara--if that $1100 will make a big difference in your next trip and what you'll be able to do, then you may want to save it for then. Going to Kenya and supporting the economy would be a better way to respect the Kenyan people than avoiding the destination, IMO.

If the choice is Mara or no Mara, I'd say add the Mara. If it is Mara this trip or more flexibility to add something next trip, then I'd be inclined to put that time and money into the next trip.

I am looking into an Aug 2010 trip and will probably do 4-5 nights in the N. Serengeti and 4 nights Mara.

Patty

<i>Going to Kenya and supporting the economy would be a better way to respect the Kenyan people than avoiding the destination, IMO.</i>

I totally agree with this and would have no qualms about going to Kenya in August (I was there in February).

BTW OP stands for original poster or original post. The reason I didn't think you meant the St Lucia in KZN was because it's quite some distance as an add on to Tanzania and kimburu's post threw me off slightly and made me think that perhaps there was another St. Lucia somewhere along the coast of Tanzania that I hadn't heard about. Thanks for clarifying.

ShayTay

&quot;OP&quot; is Original Poster, I believe. The FAQ idea wasn't mine, but I like it. On Rick Steves' website for Europe, they have a &quot;Graffiti Wall&quot; where you can post by topic. I realize that Fodor's probably doesn't have the capabilities to do that, but it would be great to have an African Graffiti Wall somewhere.

The question about going to the Mara is a personal one, as the Migration will be moving from Tanzania to Kenya (Serengeti to Mara) at that time. I would imagine that you'd see some of the herds on either side of the border in August. The OAT website doesn't say where they stay in the Mara, so you might find out what camp they will be at and post that info. One note: OAT is offering $600 savings for bookings of the Safari Serengeti trip. Did you get that discount? If so, perhaps you could consider the Mara extension a &quot;half price&quot; trip, if you take this discount into effect.

makinghay

OK,Fodorites, Now there is a new wrinkle to my plans. I have just been called by OAT asking if we would give up our Sept.13 reservation to accomodate a family of six. I am inclined to do this, since I have been considering changing to August anyway.

However, I am so discouraged by OAT phone contact lack of any real information. I want to know just WHERE the migration camp is in August. I had been under the impression that it was in the Northern Serengeti, as I gather that is where the migration might be in August and they claim to &quot;go where the animals are&quot;.

Now I read in their brochure, in a separate location, that the not-very-mobile-mobile camp is in the Central Serengeti.

All I read says the migration in August, would most likely be in the Mara, but some still in the extreme Northern Serengeti.

I don't know the logistics. For those of you who do, is it possible to be camped in the Central area and do game drives that take you to the North?

This is a long awaited and expensive trip and I want to do it right. It makes me very frustrated that OAT has no one on staff who has any information other than what they,and I, can read in a brochure! (The only other tour company we've used is Rick Steves. He has an expert on every country right there ready to answer your every question and concern. I expect no less. It is my one criticism of OAT.) At least I have you all with your collective wisdom!

I do believe that OAT does a great job on their trips, but I have read reports on the Forum of, for instance, no water in the Delta, when the Mokoro was a major feature of the tour location on the Delta. That would ruin a Bots trip for me! I know they want to fill their trips each month, not just on the best months.

The dates we could have at present are Aug.5 or 9, and I think that July 24 is also available. Atravelynn had suggested this time might be better.

If any of you can give me more definitive information or reassurance, I would be so grateful. I still don't think I want to go into Kenya, unless the advisory is lifted. Yesterday I talked to a travel insurance person who was, herself headed for Egypt. She said that she herself would not travel to any country with a State Dept caution. (Nor does travel insurance cover such locations, generally.)We would fly out of Nairobi if we did the Mara extension.

I have to let them know in a couple of days. Tell me. Am I way too wordy? I could do more of a list format...

makinghay

Me again...sorry. I keep forgetting that August is said to be too crowded...so many vehicles out and about, so many in the Crater. What do you know about this? Is it to be avoided? I assume maybe not, since atravelynn is planning an August trip.

climbhighsleeplow

Makinghay

The answer lies in the itinerary.

On day 8 you have to drive to the Serengeti from Ngorongoro Farm House (or Tloma Lodge quite a bit further away) and return on day 12.

Due to the very long distances involved they cannot put the camp anywhere else but the central or south Serengeti!

You may be able to drive to the Lobo area on one of the 3 days while in the central Serengeti but it will be an all-day trip. I wonder if all 6 in the car will be up for the drive after the long drive on day 8.

Another thing to remember. The lodging for this tour was built specifically with larger tour groups in mind. Locations were not the main priority.

In both Tarangire (Maramboi &amp; Burunge) and Ngorongoro Crater (Farm House or Tloma) you will be quite a distance from the best wildlife.

In August the migration should be north of Lobo in the Serengeti.

July will probably work best for your itinerary.

atravelynn

Not too wordy at all. You have to lay out your concerns and what you've learned. Nobody has to read it if they don't want to.

Somehow I thought OAT had more than one private camp so that you spent time in the Central Serengeti and then somewhere else depending on the season. (You mean in Feb all 4 nts are in Central and not Southern Serengeti? Who'd do that trip, if that's the case.) With 4 nights in the Serengeti, it made sense to me that your time would be split, but the answers you received don't support my 2 camp inkling. I'd go with your definite answers.

ClimbHighSleepLow is exactly right with the timing involved. If it is only one camp, you'd never make it that far north.

The family of 6 is your out. I'd take it and book July given the location of the Serengeti camp. You'd be in the right place at the right time.

As for not being in the best wildlife locations at the crater and Tarangire--

At the crater you'll probably just have a longer drive in. There was some wildlife (ele, buffalo, monkeys, tree hyraxes as I recall) around Sopa and I think some of those creatures around Wildlife Lodge, but to get to the concentration of animals you had to go into the crater, regardless of where you stayed.

At Tarangire, I am not sure where the accommodation is located. But I would think you could drive to more animal abundant areas in Tarangire far more easily than trying to hunt them down in the Serengeti.

The shortfalls of OAT that ClimbHighSleepLow pointed out are accurate, but may be tolerable to you on a first time safari for the price you are getting. But not going to the right location in the Serengeti is too big of an itinerary flaw for a good price, in my opinion.

See if OAT will give you any discount or something for making the change. Did you already get that $600 off? If not, see if you can get that for your change. Maybe vouchers for $ off on the Southern Africa trip if you plan to use OAT for that too.

As for not going to Kenya based on the insurance provider's info, OAT is not going to take guests to a hotspot. Neither are companies like Tauk, A&amp;K, Globus, Natural Habitat. I wouldn't let that sway you with the Kenya extension. But if you are going to be worried all during your wonderful TZ trip about what might happen in Kenya, then I wouldn't book the Mara because it could mar an otherwise fabulous experience.

August is more crowded because much of Europe is on holiday. I've had lots of trips to Africa in Aug and can't say it was much more crowded than July. I would not let possible crowds in Aug vs. July make my decision either.

Hope you can get ready by July!

climbhighsleeplow

Tarangire camp locations are on this map:

http://www.go-safari.com/Tarangire/TarangireApr7.jpg

Maramboi and Burungi are both to the west far outside the park. Maramboi is closest but still more than 30 minutes away on bad roads. And from the park gate it is another long haul to the Silale Swamp and other great areas.

makinghay

Well, I guess I will count on just being thrilled to be where I am. If I don't know we are &quot;too far away&quot;, I won't mind. I am not looking forward to the 4 and 5 hour drives....I don't even like them at home. But we do need to get around to see a variety and I can only hope that we will do that.

OAT does say they try to take you out of the crowded areas. Perhaps that's an excuse for the inconvenience, but it may also enhance the experience at times. Also, villages,markets,school or orphanage visits are part of the experience too. Our locations may take that in to consideration.

The Farmhouse is said to be an hour away, but a pretty drive. I inquired early on and was told that we spend 5 hours IN the crater.
The Farmhouse also is fairly close to the Karatu village for a market visit. Isn't that good?

As for the $600 discount, that is only for new clients. We got only $300 each. Bummer. I don't feel we are in a bargaining position, as I had already called and discussed changing to early August. July is out...husband has conflicting event. I did just remember a rule I just learned about. If you change once, you can't change dates again. If I give up the September date for the family, I WILL insist on being given a second &quot;out&quot;, should I change my mind again...being rushed into a decision that I should not have to make until mid-June when full payment is due. Thank you for the suggestion!

Atravelynn, you are correct about the mobile camps: Dec-Mar/Southern: April-Nov/Central Serengeti. I really appreciate you're positive remarks. I do think we will have a wonderful time. OAT trips are really popular and we have friends who have done 6 or 8 and are still happy. Ignorance IS bliss!

Good Night all.

I'm more than half asleep. Will pick this up when I can. My thanks again

ShayTay

Makinghay, I think you'll enjoy the properties that OAT uses, including the Farmhouse, which is a beautiful property. They are not your usual hotel-like safari lodges. Lake Burunge Camp is about an hour from the main entrance of Tarangire, but it's a really nice camp. I think that Kibo (the OAT outfitter) has tried to get TANAPA to open a gate closer to the camp, but don't know if they ever succeeded. If you stay there, they do a full day's visit to Tarangire, often with a picnic breakfast and lunch. Kibo has many mobile tented camp setups that they use in the Serengeti. They will try to place your camp as close as they can to the Migration, but it's always a guessing game as to where it will be at any given time of the year. There are only a few specially designated campsites where mobile camps can be set up, so they are usually booked well in advance, although Kibo does a good job of trying to get their camps in the right place. Last June, I had picked out a campsite close to the Western Corridor that I thought would be good for our group. Kibo changed it twice, finally located in Rongai, which was a bit south of the central Seronera area. I wasn't happy about that until I found out that the Migration was much further south than usual for that time of year. The herds moved right past our camp when we were there...good job by Kibo!

atravelynn

I'd go for early August, then.