Southern Africa Itinerary Planning
Sep 29th, 2009, 04:24 PM
#22
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atravelynn- We're planning to Alaska in 2010 with my mother. What's your plan? I haven't planned a thing. Trying to avoid the black fly and mossie season. Going with Cruise West or an indie? Katmai for the bears?
Robin - Haven't heard from safariwannabe, so it doesn't seem to be a problem that we all hijacked the thread. We don't drive when we've been to S Africa because it's expensive to rent a car. We priced it out last time and surprisingly it was a little less expensive for us to get drivers for our three transfers. With leaving a 4x4 vehicle at the camp for 3-4 days unused and renting in one place and dropping it off at another, it worked out. I don't know if it's an option in Zam, but might be worth looking into. We had great drivers - they were all very personable and really good tour guides so we got to learn a little about what we were seeing. With a driver you can do both air and car, which was a huge plus for us.
Robin - Haven't heard from safariwannabe, so it doesn't seem to be a problem that we all hijacked the thread. We don't drive when we've been to S Africa because it's expensive to rent a car. We priced it out last time and surprisingly it was a little less expensive for us to get drivers for our three transfers. With leaving a 4x4 vehicle at the camp for 3-4 days unused and renting in one place and dropping it off at another, it worked out. I don't know if it's an option in Zam, but might be worth looking into. We had great drivers - they were all very personable and really good tour guides so we got to learn a little about what we were seeing. With a driver you can do both air and car, which was a huge plus for us.
Sep 29th, 2009, 04:42 PM
#23
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Wannabe is finishing his report from one year ago, as he should be, because in a few days it will be more than one year since he returned. So he doesn't have time to check out this post until he finishes with the Selous.
Christabir, you can email me at atravelynn at hotmail dot com.
Christabir, you can email me at atravelynn at hotmail dot com.
Sep 30th, 2009, 01:53 AM
#24
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I've been following and have a lot to compile and research from the info in this thread. Thanks to everyone whose offered advice and suggestions. Atravelynn is right - I've been trying to focus on getting that trip report done and the pictures up on a site, and will return my focus to the upcoming trip soon. Thanks again to all for your help.
Sep 30th, 2009, 06:27 AM
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Christabir - Here is what Safariwannabe has been up too! Have a look - it's a great read!
http://www.fodors.com/community/afri...ember-2008.cfm
Quite right - it certainly isn't cheap to rent any vehicle in southern Africa, but especially a fully equipped Land Rover - about US$250 per night. We travel this way, not to save money, but because we like the freedom it offers. However, the more I read about Zambia, the more I am thinking that self-drive may not be practical for what we want to do. Need to do more research!
Lynn - Kutandala looks/sounds fantastic - I have added it to the itinerary. Thanks for the suggestion. Robin
http://www.fodors.com/community/afri...ember-2008.cfm
Quite right - it certainly isn't cheap to rent any vehicle in southern Africa, but especially a fully equipped Land Rover - about US$250 per night. We travel this way, not to save money, but because we like the freedom it offers. However, the more I read about Zambia, the more I am thinking that self-drive may not be practical for what we want to do. Need to do more research!
Lynn - Kutandala looks/sounds fantastic - I have added it to the itinerary. Thanks for the suggestion. Robin
Sep 30th, 2009, 11:20 PM
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I would add a couple of points.
Avoid canoeing in August and do it in September. Game viewing will be better as the pans dry out, also there is the wind to think about.
I don't know about you level of physical fitness, though at this time of the year, the wind blows east-west, against the flow of west-east. It can make some of the longer stretches of water a little choppy and quite tiresome.
I would also call the canoe safari 4 days, else there is a good chance you will miss the first afternoon as I did on the 4 out of the 6 did on my WS canoe safari. Stay at a Mana pools lodge the night before, which is an easy transfer to the starting point.
Would have to agree with SKimmer on the weather and trying to do too much.
Avoid canoeing in August and do it in September. Game viewing will be better as the pans dry out, also there is the wind to think about.
I don't know about you level of physical fitness, though at this time of the year, the wind blows east-west, against the flow of west-east. It can make some of the longer stretches of water a little choppy and quite tiresome.
I would also call the canoe safari 4 days, else there is a good chance you will miss the first afternoon as I did on the 4 out of the 6 did on my WS canoe safari. Stay at a Mana pools lodge the night before, which is an easy transfer to the starting point.
Would have to agree with SKimmer on the weather and trying to do too much.
Oct 3rd, 2009, 08:10 AM
#28
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Thanks for all the feedback. I'm pretty sure I'm going to drop Namibia from this trip. I'm also thinking about dropping Zimbabwe. I think that I'd get a similar experience at Lower Zambezi NP as Mana Pools, but I'm not sure - would I be missing something if I didn't go to Hwange? Would South/North Luangwa be a similar experience?
Oct 3rd, 2009, 08:19 AM
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If you have a choice between lower zambezi and mana pools, i would take mana pools hands down. there will be 90% less people, the same animals, and costs will be lower for equigalent or better lodging.
hwange cannot be compared to s/n luangwe. totally different environment and ecosystem.
if you want to go from south luangwe to mana pools you can now get there by flying to lusaka then taking a road & boat transfer from there.
hope this helps.
craig beal
hwange cannot be compared to s/n luangwe. totally different environment and ecosystem.
if you want to go from south luangwe to mana pools you can now get there by flying to lusaka then taking a road & boat transfer from there.
hope this helps.
craig beal
Oct 3rd, 2009, 12:50 PM
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LZ vs MP
My answer will not be that different from Craig's but will incorporate more emotions about certain antelope species.
MP was a little better for scenery, abundance of wildlife, etc. As for lodging, I did not stay at the nice places MP has to offer, because it was a mobile--a very nice mobile. But LZ's Chiawa (where I haven't been) and Sausage Tree and Old Mondoro are top notch accommodations. I think I'd let cost and logistics play a big role in determining MP or LZ. Going to both would be a "safari connoisseur" move that I'd like to do, but understand not everyone would want to go to both.
Hwange and the Luangwa Valley are very different. What Hwange has that is hard to duplicate anywhere else is:
1. Pans that draw animals, especially at sunset. With a several day stay you'd like have beautiful views of eles and giraffes outlined in the sunset coming to drink. This is a spectacular sight.
2. I've never seen such sizeable herds of sable anywhere else. This attractive, rare, and sought after antelope was sighted a couple times while I was in Hwange and with a several night stay, you'd have a good chance too.
3. Forget when you're going, but into the dry season the eles often come and drink from the pool when guests are cooling off, especially at Little Makalolo.
The Luangwa Valley has puku (as does much of Zambia), a relaxed and ruddy colored antelope I hold dear but I don't remember any at Hwange. There are also the less common Cookson's Wildebeest, especially in the northern part of S. Luangwa and in N. Luangwa.
The remote walking of N. Luangwa and the atmosphere (both tangible and intangible) of Kutandala (one of several camps in N. Luangwa) is very hard to duplicate. The scenery of S. Luangwa is classic--sandy river beds with concave banks, trees and root systems left dangling, testament to the force of the Luangwa’s rushing water during the rains.
I think it was mentioned here, but I'd check out the poaching situation in Zim in the areas you are interested in going. My comments on Zim are from the 90s.
You have the problem many of us are very fortunate to suffer from. Where to go, how to best use your time, what activities appeal to you most, while in Africa. And of course budget.
Any reasonable Zim/Zam combo or an all Zim or all Zam trip will be great. You can post what you come up with for more comments.
My answer will not be that different from Craig's but will incorporate more emotions about certain antelope species.
MP was a little better for scenery, abundance of wildlife, etc. As for lodging, I did not stay at the nice places MP has to offer, because it was a mobile--a very nice mobile. But LZ's Chiawa (where I haven't been) and Sausage Tree and Old Mondoro are top notch accommodations. I think I'd let cost and logistics play a big role in determining MP or LZ. Going to both would be a "safari connoisseur" move that I'd like to do, but understand not everyone would want to go to both.
Hwange and the Luangwa Valley are very different. What Hwange has that is hard to duplicate anywhere else is:
1. Pans that draw animals, especially at sunset. With a several day stay you'd like have beautiful views of eles and giraffes outlined in the sunset coming to drink. This is a spectacular sight.
2. I've never seen such sizeable herds of sable anywhere else. This attractive, rare, and sought after antelope was sighted a couple times while I was in Hwange and with a several night stay, you'd have a good chance too.
3. Forget when you're going, but into the dry season the eles often come and drink from the pool when guests are cooling off, especially at Little Makalolo.
The Luangwa Valley has puku (as does much of Zambia), a relaxed and ruddy colored antelope I hold dear but I don't remember any at Hwange. There are also the less common Cookson's Wildebeest, especially in the northern part of S. Luangwa and in N. Luangwa.
The remote walking of N. Luangwa and the atmosphere (both tangible and intangible) of Kutandala (one of several camps in N. Luangwa) is very hard to duplicate. The scenery of S. Luangwa is classic--sandy river beds with concave banks, trees and root systems left dangling, testament to the force of the Luangwa’s rushing water during the rains.
I think it was mentioned here, but I'd check out the poaching situation in Zim in the areas you are interested in going. My comments on Zim are from the 90s.
You have the problem many of us are very fortunate to suffer from. Where to go, how to best use your time, what activities appeal to you most, while in Africa. And of course budget.
Any reasonable Zim/Zam combo or an all Zim or all Zam trip will be great. You can post what you come up with for more comments.
Oct 4th, 2009, 06:24 AM
#31
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Based on the feedback, I've eliminated Namibia and narrowed it down to ZIM/BOTS or ZIM/ZAM for this trip. The plans below are in no particular order and would welcome suggestions of alternative camps.
Options 1 - Zimbabwe/Botswana
Mana Pools - Ruckomechi - 1 night
Mana Pools - WS Canoe and Walking Safari - 3 nights
Hwange - Little Makalolo - 3 nights
Vic Falls - 2 nights (at least 1 night in ZIM, other night could be Livingstone)
Chobe/Linyanti - Savuti - 3 nights
Okavango - Chitabe - 3 nights
Have a possible 3 nights for another camp
Option 2 - Zimbabwe/Zambia
Mana Pools - Ruckomechi - 1 night
Mana Pools - WS Canoe and Walking Safari - 3 nights
Hwange - Little Makalolo - 3 nights
Vic Falls - 2 nights
S. Luangwa - Robin Pope Luangwa Bush Camping - 7 nights
Kafue - Busanga Bush Camp - 3 nights
Thanks again for all the feedback and suggestions - thoughts on these?
Options 1 - Zimbabwe/Botswana
Mana Pools - Ruckomechi - 1 night
Mana Pools - WS Canoe and Walking Safari - 3 nights
Hwange - Little Makalolo - 3 nights
Vic Falls - 2 nights (at least 1 night in ZIM, other night could be Livingstone)
Chobe/Linyanti - Savuti - 3 nights
Okavango - Chitabe - 3 nights
Have a possible 3 nights for another camp
Option 2 - Zimbabwe/Zambia
Mana Pools - Ruckomechi - 1 night
Mana Pools - WS Canoe and Walking Safari - 3 nights
Hwange - Little Makalolo - 3 nights
Vic Falls - 2 nights
S. Luangwa - Robin Pope Luangwa Bush Camping - 7 nights
Kafue - Busanga Bush Camp - 3 nights
Thanks again for all the feedback and suggestions - thoughts on these?
Oct 4th, 2009, 07:03 AM
#32
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i like option 1 the best, but i have yet to travel to south luangwe and kafue (i leave next sunday!).
regarding mana pools: are you sure you want the trails safari? it is going to be a lot more adventurous than the rest of your camps. i do think it would be a great experience and the price is absolutely right now for 2010. also, since ALL the wilderness safari camps in zimbabwe for 2010 are on stay3pay2 pricing, are you sure you don't want to add two nights at ruckomechi? you would only have to pay for one of the additional two nights so it would cost no more than $400 to add two nights. with all the logistice of getting to mana pools, and the relative value of the camps right now, i think it may be worth adding two nights.
i hope you take my advice and have your agent book you into Harare to start the whole safari? i think i mentioned the savings on charter and commercial flights is about $500 pp to do it this way vs flying into vfa. i have sent several clients this season on this exact routing.
i suggest you spend both nights in zim at the vic falls hotel if you take option 1. you can cross over to zam for a tour on that side. if you go in september, you may even experience the devil's pool on the zambia side. for a better experience of the landscape i also suggest you have a driver take you from the vic falls hotel to kasane instead of flying. you will already get a flyover of the falls when you land at VFA from Hwange so no need to do it again. also, with the airport road transfer, charter flight, and airport departure tax, flying VFA-BBK (kasane) is about $200 per person. the drive is about $70. i am sure cost is not a big deal to you given the length of the safari, but everything helps. also, total travel time from the VF hotel to Kasane is about the same by road as by flying!
i am sure your agent told you there are no water activities at chitabe and savuti. both those camps are fantastic, but if you want to add a few days i suggest you add a camp with water activities like little vumbura or kwetsani. i realize you will get to canoe in mana pools but many people like the mokoro rides as well which only happens in the delta. you could add a water activity camp in botswana, two nights at ruckomechi, and eliminate the canoe trails if you are less adventurous.
you really are on the right track!
craig beal
regarding mana pools: are you sure you want the trails safari? it is going to be a lot more adventurous than the rest of your camps. i do think it would be a great experience and the price is absolutely right now for 2010. also, since ALL the wilderness safari camps in zimbabwe for 2010 are on stay3pay2 pricing, are you sure you don't want to add two nights at ruckomechi? you would only have to pay for one of the additional two nights so it would cost no more than $400 to add two nights. with all the logistice of getting to mana pools, and the relative value of the camps right now, i think it may be worth adding two nights.
i hope you take my advice and have your agent book you into Harare to start the whole safari? i think i mentioned the savings on charter and commercial flights is about $500 pp to do it this way vs flying into vfa. i have sent several clients this season on this exact routing.
i suggest you spend both nights in zim at the vic falls hotel if you take option 1. you can cross over to zam for a tour on that side. if you go in september, you may even experience the devil's pool on the zambia side. for a better experience of the landscape i also suggest you have a driver take you from the vic falls hotel to kasane instead of flying. you will already get a flyover of the falls when you land at VFA from Hwange so no need to do it again. also, with the airport road transfer, charter flight, and airport departure tax, flying VFA-BBK (kasane) is about $200 per person. the drive is about $70. i am sure cost is not a big deal to you given the length of the safari, but everything helps. also, total travel time from the VF hotel to Kasane is about the same by road as by flying!
i am sure your agent told you there are no water activities at chitabe and savuti. both those camps are fantastic, but if you want to add a few days i suggest you add a camp with water activities like little vumbura or kwetsani. i realize you will get to canoe in mana pools but many people like the mokoro rides as well which only happens in the delta. you could add a water activity camp in botswana, two nights at ruckomechi, and eliminate the canoe trails if you are less adventurous.
you really are on the right track!
craig beal
Oct 4th, 2009, 08:03 AM
#33
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I did not read the other vote so as not to taint my answer.
I'll assume both are ok costwise.
I like #1 for the variety. If you had more time (that's always the constraint) then Zim & Zam and add Bots would be ideal.
Given your timeframe, #1 would provide you with all that MP and the Zambezi offers, both mobile and stationary. Do the driving activities at Ruckomechi and focus on canoe/walking on the mobile. You get Hwange with the sunsets, the sable, etc. and 3 nts is enough to enjoy it. Vic Falls from both sides, great. Then 3 nts in Chobe- Linyanti-Savuti where there would be a couple of excellent camp choices and 3 nts Chitabe, a place I extended my stay from 4 to 8 nights. You might consider a night at the Chitabe walking trails camp, an elevated platform/hide where you sleep. It was an outstanding activity and even fun alone, which is what I did--it appears you are going alone. Both of these concessions are top wildlife producing areas in Botswana.
Then another camp? Maybe something with water options in the delta like Little Vumbura or Kwara. Kwara is a Kwando camp I'd love to visit.
Not sure how the time in Chobe-Linyanti-Savuti is structured. You might want to add one more day here and then have 2 nts for something else later in the trip. The Chobe area is separate from Linyanti-Savuti and might require staying there, then going to Lin-Sav. The afternoon wildlife cruise on the Chobe River is a spectacle and unique in Africa for the prolific wildlife. There are other water and river activities/cruises/boat rides, but there is only one Chobe River Cruise.
Here is one thing to consider regarding the Chobe-Lin-Sav that recent visitors have observed. The higher levels of rain in the last couple of years have made wildlife viewing there more difficult. I too experienced more water (beautiful scenery, lots of birds) and less animal activity on my last trip to this region. Still had wild dogs in camp with 3 wild dog sightings in 1 day and found a nice cheetah, despite the less than ideal conditions. Going well into the dry season (late Aug, Sept) seems even more important given what appears to be wetter conditions. Of course predicting the rain and weather is a crap shoot.
#2 would be nice too but does not have the variety. Save that for your next trip.
#1 looks terrific to me.
I'll assume both are ok costwise.
I like #1 for the variety. If you had more time (that's always the constraint) then Zim & Zam and add Bots would be ideal.
Given your timeframe, #1 would provide you with all that MP and the Zambezi offers, both mobile and stationary. Do the driving activities at Ruckomechi and focus on canoe/walking on the mobile. You get Hwange with the sunsets, the sable, etc. and 3 nts is enough to enjoy it. Vic Falls from both sides, great. Then 3 nts in Chobe- Linyanti-Savuti where there would be a couple of excellent camp choices and 3 nts Chitabe, a place I extended my stay from 4 to 8 nights. You might consider a night at the Chitabe walking trails camp, an elevated platform/hide where you sleep. It was an outstanding activity and even fun alone, which is what I did--it appears you are going alone. Both of these concessions are top wildlife producing areas in Botswana.
Then another camp? Maybe something with water options in the delta like Little Vumbura or Kwara. Kwara is a Kwando camp I'd love to visit.
Not sure how the time in Chobe-Linyanti-Savuti is structured. You might want to add one more day here and then have 2 nts for something else later in the trip. The Chobe area is separate from Linyanti-Savuti and might require staying there, then going to Lin-Sav. The afternoon wildlife cruise on the Chobe River is a spectacle and unique in Africa for the prolific wildlife. There are other water and river activities/cruises/boat rides, but there is only one Chobe River Cruise.
Here is one thing to consider regarding the Chobe-Lin-Sav that recent visitors have observed. The higher levels of rain in the last couple of years have made wildlife viewing there more difficult. I too experienced more water (beautiful scenery, lots of birds) and less animal activity on my last trip to this region. Still had wild dogs in camp with 3 wild dog sightings in 1 day and found a nice cheetah, despite the less than ideal conditions. Going well into the dry season (late Aug, Sept) seems even more important given what appears to be wetter conditions. Of course predicting the rain and weather is a crap shoot.
#2 would be nice too but does not have the variety. Save that for your next trip.
#1 looks terrific to me.
Oct 5th, 2009, 05:29 AM
#34
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chritabir,
the person you met from wilderness safaris two weeks ago was Blessing! i won't even try spelling his last name. he runs wilderenss safaris for zimbabwe. we hosted an event in minneapolis last week with wilderness safaris, lindblad/national geographic, and regent. he was a very popular that night!
zimbabwe is fantastic and i highly recommend a visit to anyone going to southern africa.
craig
the person you met from wilderness safaris two weeks ago was Blessing! i won't even try spelling his last name. he runs wilderenss safaris for zimbabwe. we hosted an event in minneapolis last week with wilderness safaris, lindblad/national geographic, and regent. he was a very popular that night!
zimbabwe is fantastic and i highly recommend a visit to anyone going to southern africa.
craig
Oct 5th, 2009, 04:11 PM
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Most any camp or lodge will take you to the cruise or even do their own. I was in a mobile and we had our own boat for the 6 or 7 guests. Chobe Game Lodge is where the boat departs so you can certainly go easily if you stay there.
Because the cruise is such a highlight, most accommodations plan to include it. The afternoon is the best time but if you added a morning cruise too that would be nice.
Because the cruise is such a highlight, most accommodations plan to include it. The afternoon is the best time but if you added a morning cruise too that would be nice.
Oct 5th, 2009, 06:26 PM
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Craig - yes it was Blessing!! He was awesome, and really sold his camps well. The whole group was tons of fun. I will try to get to Zim in 2011. Have to visit 2 other places before I'm "allowed" back to Africa. (sorry - go Tigers!! Had to get that out being that you're from Minn. I'm a BIG Tigers fan.)
sw - I don't know how I'd choose between the two. I'm leaning toward #2. Maybe because I've been to Bots. If you've not been, then #1. But in truth, they both sound amazing. Like I said - I wannabe U!! Why one nt at Ruckomechi? One thing I would do is make sure your TA lets the camps know you are interested in walks so they can arrange that before you arrive. We didn't do that on our last trip and were unpleasantly surprised that the afternoon walks are not always available and we only went on one in ten days. Not all the guides are allowed to walk. We went on a cruise and mokoro at Vumbura Plains. Nice change of pace, and they let us catch and release fish on the cruise. It was nice being so quiet in the canoes, but they are low, so frogs, flowers and birds were the sights of the day. Great for me, not so great for 20 yr old nephew.
Christa
sw - I don't know how I'd choose between the two. I'm leaning toward #2. Maybe because I've been to Bots. If you've not been, then #1. But in truth, they both sound amazing. Like I said - I wannabe U!! Why one nt at Ruckomechi? One thing I would do is make sure your TA lets the camps know you are interested in walks so they can arrange that before you arrive. We didn't do that on our last trip and were unpleasantly surprised that the afternoon walks are not always available and we only went on one in ten days. Not all the guides are allowed to walk. We went on a cruise and mokoro at Vumbura Plains. Nice change of pace, and they let us catch and release fish on the cruise. It was nice being so quiet in the canoes, but they are low, so frogs, flowers and birds were the sights of the day. Great for me, not so great for 20 yr old nephew.
Christa
Oct 15th, 2009, 06:01 PM
#38
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Searched the board, but most postings were a year or older - given a choice between Kwetsani and Little Vumbura which is better for game viewing? Also between Duma Tau and Savuti? I'm getting closer to figuring this trip out - thanks again to everyone for the great advice and input.
Oct 15th, 2009, 07:13 PM
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Duma Tau and Savuti do their game drives on the same land - the Linyanti Concession. Unless the vehicles cannot get accross the Savuti Channel, then the game drives CAN be exactly the same.
Little Vumbura has access to the Vumbura Plains so you can do 100% dry land game drives if you want. Kwetsani is surrounded by water on all sides. You have to arrive by boat or helicopter. I have done it both ways but the helicopters are not used much any more. Kwetsani is a classic water camp in the heart of the wettest part of the Delta. Little Vumbura is on an island and offers all the dry land and water activities but it on the fringes of the Delta. I hope this helps. I would have a tough time choosing between Kwetsani and LV!
Craig Beal
Little Vumbura has access to the Vumbura Plains so you can do 100% dry land game drives if you want. Kwetsani is surrounded by water on all sides. You have to arrive by boat or helicopter. I have done it both ways but the helicopters are not used much any more. Kwetsani is a classic water camp in the heart of the wettest part of the Delta. Little Vumbura is on an island and offers all the dry land and water activities but it on the fringes of the Delta. I hope this helps. I would have a tough time choosing between Kwetsani and LV!
Craig Beal
