cary999

I'm with Kavey, Lake Manyara reserve is not that interesting to me. Lots of baboons and vervet monkeys there, good birds. No off-road vehicles allowed. And in the two times I've been there (Feb 2011) the only one of the big five we saw was a few, very few, elephants. (Stayed a the Serena Lodge). If you need a close by stop to/from Arusha, then Lake Manyara works fine. But not as a primary safari camp/reservation. In fact, I'd skip it entirely

regards - tom

tanya_1976

Aesla did u explore the Serengeti Under Canvas option? That could be another option to Kleins if its available and more in north, north-central part of Serengeti. On their website they do say June-December Northern half of Serengeti. Rack rates are about 95 USD pppd cheaper than Kleins'

Lake Manyara or Kleins both allow night drive and off road options and having one of them in the mix will be good from that point of view as well.

They have a Klein's Under Canvas Jun-Dec( rest of Klein's camps are lodges not tented camps) so check on that if want more tented experience.

Kavey

I wouldn't skip Lake Manyara, just because, for me, the short visit we had there (a half day game drive with a single overnight near by) was magical - the mango trees and fig trees were in flower, so an incredibly heady perfume filled the forest and the way the light shafted through the upper foliage was magical to me. Game viewing wasn't very varied or special but was enjoyable to me because of the setting. The birds on the lake were great to see, for a short while, but as one is standing at the edge, behind a no-cross line, with hundreds of others, not a particularly special experience.

Who knows if I'd find it as magical at other times of year?

Certainly, even at that time, I would not have wanted 3 or 4 nights there.

StanKase

My cost of $6700/person in Feb.is with accommodations a step below some but not all of yours but well ahead of Serena level. It does fly to most places which makes our 4 places in 9 days not too difficult and for sure your rate should include a private driver. But $9k/person seems high unless you are in 2 rooms and one you are paying a large single supplement.

tanya_1976

Apologies aesla, just rechecked - no kids under 11 in SUC.
Rest of your selection 50% adult rate for a triple for a kid 6 to 11 years

sandi

Klein's is on a private conservancy, why off-roading and night drives can be done.

Tree Lodge at Manyara is at the very farthest end outside the park, why off-roading and night drives can be done.

Tree Lodge, however, on arrival at the Lk Manyara airstrip is easily a 2/hr drive thru the park (without game viewing, so will be even longer if stopping along the way). It'll also be 2/hrs driving from the Lodge to the airstrip. A stay here should be 2/nts, but not more... 4/nts is a bit overkill.

Suggest you check with andBeyond for them being able to provide an "aya" (nanny) for your child, if he/she is not be up for a game drive, you want to have a private dinner, or whatever. Fee is small. Also ask for any "child-friendly" foods your young one might like (specific cereals, etc..)... and, they should also be able to arrange meals earlier than that for the adults at camps.

Mnemba is a nice spot for R&R, but realize with 2/nts you only have 1/full day... lots of travel (air from mainland, road to boat dock, boat to Mnemba) to get and a rather expensive extension.

Is the listing shown above the actual routing? Granted you'd be flying, but still are zig-zagging the way it's shown - from Arusha, fly to north to south to west to farther northwest, then clear across country to coastal island... ugh! If so, assuming those were the only days available. Advise if routing is otherwise.

aesla

OK. No lake Manyara for four nights. The zigzaging is a bit concerning, but we're flying to all these places.

This schedule is made this way due to the availability. But their Kenya property may be a choice. What about Kichwa Tembo or Bateleur? Would you pick them over Klein's for four nights?

After Mnemba, we will still have 3 or 4 nights in Zanzibar. So we'll stay somewhere in the north and relax a bit more.

sandi

If Kenya, to keep to the same quality of property... then it's Bateleur Camp (18/tents, divided into group of 9/tents each south and north). Kichwa Tembo is 30/tents.

For the month of July, as you don't indicate if it's early or from mid-month onward, the migration is usually already in Kenya's Masai Mara (Bateleur Camp) by mid-month; last year the herds arrived early in June. Early July is "iffy" as one never knows what those confused wildies will do from year-to-year. That is if the migration is of interest. Grumeti River is a good bet at that time, but not always Klein's.

If you do consider Bateleur, would that be in place of Klein's as your first stop? And, what kind of transport between Kenya and Tanzania. Even though the Mara and Serengeti are the same eco-system, there is no direct crossing between the two. This too would have to be a flight/s transfer.

Whichever you choose - Klein's or Bateleur, neither will disappoint.

What properties are andBeyond offering you on Zanzibar? There are some lovely luxe properties, at more favorable prices than if at Mnemba! Know though that the coast is tropical - hot and humid. Mnemba doesn't have a/c, but does have ceiling fans and this along with "possible" breezes can work for some, not for others. Only you can decide whether the fan will be sufficient, especially for sleeping.

sdb2

I think going Serengeti/Tanzania to Masai Mara/Kenya will give you border crossing/immigration issues, including the need for additional visas. May be more of a headache than you want to deal with.

If your original itinerary goes in the order listed, it seems to me you will drive from Manyara Airstrip to the Tree Lodge, which Sandi says is 2 hrs. You're then going to Ngorongoro CL which is about 90 minutes from Manyara Airstrip (so you'll be driving from the Tree Lodge back to the airstrip, then over to NCL). No flying there, just driving time.

After reading the input from other posters, I think I'd suggest making your life easy at this point and do it as given. You'll experience a good selection of different terrain and not overstay someplace (i.e., Manyara). I'm glad to hear you'll have the extra relaxing time.

BTW, when I did Grumeti, Klein's and NCL, I also did it in an order than wasn't optimized for distance. Like you, I had to do what fit with their availability. But the flights are fairly short and comfortable. You should be fine.

Best of luck, Steve

aesla

Bateleur is available for the first four nights. This would mean missing out Lake Manyara and Klein's. My international flight arrives in Nairobi anyways. The transfer from Bateleur to NCL may be a long haul though. So will inquire. In Zanzibar, I was looking at Baraza and The Residence.

Kavey

Trouble with transfer from Bateleur to NCL is that it's multi-stage so by the time you get to NCL much of the day will be gone (I think, Sandi could probably confirm or correct) and for me, I'd want to maximise time spent there, with the stunning views and property.

aesla

I've modified my stay as below:

Bateleur 3 nights
NCL 2 nights
Grumeti 3 nights
Mnemba 5 nights

This makes the initial transfer to my first camp after a long international flight from Los Angeles much easier. I will ask for early transfer from Bateleur to NCL. We fly directly from Nairobi (Wilson airport) to Manyara. We'll have to skip Lake Manyara this time. But it seems that it's not going to be a big loss. They will also fly us from Grumeti to Zanzibar directly so we should be able to get to Mnemba in the afernoon time. Because of the extra nights in Mnemba, the price has gone up to around 35k for three of us. Eventhough it is a bit of a crazy price, I see it as great itinerary in one of the most popular times of the year.

aesla

By the way, all the internal flights and a final night in Nairobi is included in the price.

sandi

With 5/nts Mnemba, I can see where the price increased to the new $35K. Maybe, consider for part of the 5/nts, the other two - Barazza (about 17/villas, part of the Breezes group, along with The Palms w/ 6/villas... both on the east coast) or The Residence (relatively new on the SW coast with 65/villas [not what I'd call intimate] and not much feedback yet) as prices for these three are a bit more favorable (all have a/c) than spending all the time on Mnemba. The Palms caters more to couples/honeymooners; Barazza does cater to families.

I happen to prefer this revised routing. You're arriving NBO, but don't mention what time. Know that scheduled flights depart from Wilson (domestic) airport 9:15am, 10am, 12:15pm, 3pm and 3:15pm. Traffic from NBO/JKIA (int'l) to Wilson, can be horrific and take as little as 1/hr (doubtful)though not unusual for it be 2+/hrs.

When concluding at Bateleur, the transfer will be longer than others (those in TNZ that are all intra-country) vs between countries requiring Immigration/Customs/Visa, and with the scheduled flight into Kilimanjaro/JRO Tanzania arriving about 1:40 to 2pm, I'm then assuming a flight to Lake Manyara* departing JRO 2:30pm, road transfer to and not arriving NCL till about 4-4:30pm. Just in time to enjoy the amazing sunset an hour+ later. Time to catch your breath and next day do the crater tour.

*no direct flight Mara via NBO to Manyara... gotta stop in JRO for Immigration and do be certain all have Yellow Fever inoculations and proof of same for entry. You have to have YF even if only visiting Tanzania/Zanzibar... new rule, regardless from when arriving.

From Grumeti, scheduled flight departs about 10am, connecting in Arusha/ARK about 12:30pm onto flight to ZNZ (arrival by 2pm latest), then road/boat transfer to Mnemba.

Now, I'm assuming "scheduled" flights, unless andBeyond has put you on "charter" flights and these will always be way more expensive, but you're not tied to a schedule... just whenever the plane arrives, you take off into the blue skies!

Where are you staying last night in Nairobi?

aesla

We're getting to Nairobi at 750 am. So there should be plenty of time to transfer.

I really like Mnemba. I know the cost is really unreasonable, but will think of it as a once in a lifetime experience. I was looking for a place in Africa by the beach that would resemble the Maldives (that's where we go often) and besides Seychelles or some remote Mozambique resorts, nothing else compares. I will endure the extra cost for this unique experience.

Our last night in Nairobi has been booked at Serena Nairobi.

They claim that we will not have private safaris? Do you think that they may provide that if I make a condition for my final booking?

sdb2

When I was at Grumeti I met a British couple whose next stop was Mnemba. Later they wrote to me with their description, which I loved and thought you might like to see:

"We had a great final few days at Mnemba island off Zanzibar - the closest to a paradise island I have ever come - and so relaxing we were positively horizontal. Horizontal reading books, horizontal snorkeling over the reef - and what a revelation that was, and horizontal snoozing between times. Vertical to make our way to the beach bar and dining room! It was a beautiful place, and again we were looked after so well - I really recommend it if you return to Tanzania."

Regarding private cars, I believe at Bateleur they don't put more than 4 in a car, so I'd think you'd have a shot there at it only being the 3 of you. I would think with your lay out asking them is not unreasonable. But I suppose it all depends on how crowded they are at the camps.

sandi

I've seen Bateleur vehicles with more than 4/paxs, so having 6/paxs wouldn't be a surprise, especially during peak-season which July is.

However, if you request "exclusive use of vehicle" expect a hefty daily fee. Depending on amount (hey, you're already blowing the budget that most would never even consider... why not another $400+/- per day).

So, if you truly wish private, maybe consider 2/days mid-stay (definitely not the 1st day on arrival... you may just want to snooze [don't feel guilty doing so, as you may otherwise zonk-out farther into your trip]). EUV would have to be pre-booked to assure they have vehicle and guide for your use.

atravelynn

If you have a 7 year old in your party, I wonder if you would automatically have your own vehicle (perhaps at a surcharge or maybe not). I would think most camps would not mix other adults in a vehicle with a young child. That would be something to ask. Also ask if there is a minimum age at some of the camps.

Since you mention a couple of times that the additional cost is not a big deal and you are looking for a magical experience, I think you would enjoy the tented camp option, whether with AndBeyond properites or others. There is a difference in feel and atmosphere between Serena and the smaller, exclusive tented camps. That difference comes at a cost.

No private cars? For a price, there are private cars. Is that price really $400/day?

tanya_1976

Private vehicle for AndBeyond in Tanzania ( not thinking Mnemba) is 450/day this year. 350/day in Bateleur.

Aesla : When I was talking to them, they gave me a full price list word document for Kenya & Tanzania. This listed park fees, lodging, air fare breakups, PV etc. I am sure they would have given you too, if not ask, it has a very detailed Child Policy in the end.

6-11 years kids pay 50% of adult rates and inclusion in game drives is at the lodge manager's discretion- So would definitely check on this prior to booking( f.e. what will they do if one of your vehicle mates go and complain about having a child in the vehicle). No other game related activity allowed and no safari walks outside the lodge. Kids below 11 years not allowed in Serengeti Under Canvas.

Also this is my sense and I could be wrong, but in NCL, they like to fill the vehicles to atleast 4 to 6 people because they charge the crater fees at 50 USD/person/trip and the actual charge is USD 200/vehicle/trip

Since you are 3, and a &Beyond vehicle sits 6, if not free, at worst you should insist on 50%.

sandi

At NCL, the daily park fee (NCA) which covers 24/hrs from time of entry, is $50/person/day (not per trip); 2/24-hr periods = $100. It then costs NCL $200/per vehicle to go down to the crater floor, so it's no surprise that they'd fill up the vehicle.

And, yes... those are the daily rates for EUV, on average that most camps/lodges charge whether Kenya or Tanzania; some camps may charge a tad less, like $250.