Clematis1

The people who have told you not to lose precious days in Europe just to break up the long flight are correct. Better you save up your frequent flyer miles and try to upgrade to business class on a plane that has flat seats if you feel the long flight may be hard on you. More airlines are installing these seats over the next few years as they see there is a demand for them. You're coming a long ways, and with the shots and the expense, you might as well enjoy what is unique to Africa. You will probably pass through London several times in your life, but Africa is a destination that takes some planning and effort, so you might as well focus on it and enjoy the magic.

I know the possibilities can be mind-boggling but for most of us it was the issue of trying to cram in all the things we wanted to do.

You should look at some itineraries on the internet and brochures from outfitters so you can get some idea of what might normally be included in two weeks in SA and use that as a starting point to discuss what kind of trip the four of you will be happy with.

rockabelle

I've been to both Cape Town and Jo'burg for work, so my views slightly skewed. I wouldn't deliberately spend any time in Jo'burg again (though I'm not bothered about going back there - just think there are better places to see). I'd quite like to go back to Cape Town and explore it more (particularly going to Table Mountain), but I'd rather be on safari.

But I agree with everyone else - don't bother with three days in London. You won't do anything for those three days! You'll spend a day (plus) getting over the travel, only to do another 12 hour flight, which you'll then need to get over again. Much better to get the whole thing over and done with in one go! If you do stay the three days in London, you've wasted the first (in one of the most expensive cities in the world), and you'll spend the third getting ready to fly again, so you only have the second. If you've never been to London before, you'll only get confused as to where to begin (I'm a Londoner, I know how big the city is, and I know just how little of it I know after living here my whole life!) Come to London another time, when you've got the time to explore it properly!

cary999

Very well said indeed rockabelle.
regards - tom

annhig

hi, jaspertl,

yes, we are getting excited - just writing my post made me realise how close it's getting.

I'm well stuck into planning for each day [with Plans B just in case] and researching restaurants etc. Just wish I could get DH more involved - he likes to wait til be get there and then grumble when things don't go quite to plan!

as we're going so far at such cost, I'm determined that I'm as well prepared as possible.

Anyone got any ideas to draw DH in gently?

regards, ann

pabster

What Kurt said.

Personally, it's impossible for me to imagine going all the way to South Africa from the west coast and not taking at least a few days to experience the urban culture and visit the historical sites that make it one of the most unique and fascinating countries on the planet. Unless, of course, it's a foregone conclusion that you'll return to visit.

LAleslie

Jaspertl,
I can almost guarantee that after 3 days you will not only love watching the animals, you will want more, more, more and will be kicking yourself for not booking more safari time. Don't know about your friends. Kurt is right on about Cape Town. This is a city in which you get to see multiculturalism and democracy in its infancy after decades of racism. Fascinating.
Ann,
I planned our entire trip last fall and spent almost a year doing it. It was mt dream trip; the DH wasn't involved. I worried he'd get bored. But on our very first game drive in Chobe Natl Park, in the 1st 15 minutes or so we came upon two lions feasting on a fresh buffalo kill. The DH was RIVETED! The next day, I had to stay in the room after I caught some virus, but he was raring to go at 5 a.m. and he HATES to get up in the morning. So now he's booked our entire upcoiming Botswana trip. Sometimes you have to lead them by the nose, but they will eventually drink!
Leslie

atravelynn

"I love animals and it will be a thrill to view them up close in their natural habitat but will I love it after 3 days of viewing?" Yes and odds are you will become addicted and want to go back and see more.

Not the the crowd is always right, but nobody spends several days recovering from jetlag in Europe. Some people add on a mini European vacation if they have the time and the money. But I don't think you have enough time to justify a London holiday.

Kurt A lists many good reasons to visit Cape Town. Ironically those reasons are why I did not plan to stop there on this June's South Africa trip. I could only spare about 2 days and felt Cape Town deserved more. So I would do it right or not do it at all.

Are these friends that insist on days of recoup time infirm so that they would require recovery time? Or are they very elderly or frail? If not, they'll do fine.

I fly coach but get a window so I can lean up against it and sleep. I have found Heathrow to be a great place to sleep between flights because there are designated quiet areas with chaise lounge type seating. There are also many seats that allow you to lay down.

You could even get a day room at a nearby hotel. Kind of expensive but if you are really interested, I could look up a rooming house that I once used as a day room that was not expensive. Had a bed and a shower in a picturesque town with swans in the nearby creek and everything.

As for the DH, you need to get him in the straight-to-Africa camp. You could see what Cape Town activities appeal to him if you'd have enough time there without London. Did Kurt A mention penguins? You could get a DVD or video at the library on some of the South Africa parks and see what he thought about it. If he likes maps, get one and you can chart out where you are going. Many of the Sabi Sands lodges have a variety of activities so you could see what appealed to him. Phinda, not in the Sabi Sands, and a fenced reserve, has 7 days worth of activities that you could find on their CCAfrica website.

Good luck with DH, the jetlag-phobic friends, and the itinerary planning in general.

Hearsh

If you haven't gotten your air tickets yet, you can probably fly to Johannesburg with a stop in Cape Town for no extra charge or a small increase in price.

I can't see flying all the way to South Africa and spending just 3 days there. I am sure after three days, you will want to stay longer. Even if you stop in London, the flight from London to Jo'berg is long. You will be spending too large a proportion of you time flying and not enough seeing the country.

hills27

We just did that...added Capetown to our international ticket and it cost practically nothing.

HariS

Cary999,

You comparing Fullerton to Cape Town? I hope not....otherwise, i would say......You have to be kidding???

Cheers,
Hari

cary999

Hari, could be, have you ever been to Fullerton? (But I've never been to Cape Town either).
regards - tom

jaspertl

I am meeting our travel friends for dinner tommorrow night and have printed out this post.

You have changed my mind now...more days on safari, (4-5 nights perhaps) fly there as quickly as possible and see Cape Town.

Thanks for your viewpoints and opinion's!!!!

What would we all do without this board and the generous people who donate their time and knowledge???!!!

I heard one time many years ago that vacations are 85% anticipation and 15% recollection! 3/4 of the fun is in the planning!!! How true

thanks again!!

sandi

I know I'm late to this, but have found once you've passed the 8 - 10/hr flight time, you feel no pain for the remaining hours in the air, whether flying first or last-class! As expressed above, any number of days you spend in Europe as a layover is eaten up and leaves you with maybe 1/day to actually "see London" and not being exhausted still for the ongoing flight to JNB. You bite the bullet and just keep going, no stops till at your destination.

Best to book a flight (5/hrs) to an East Coast hub city for connection to a non-stop flight to JNB. And, you should be able to get the connecting flight to CPT with no extra fee. The extra cost will come into play flying from CPT to Kruger, but by checking options doesn't have to be all that expensive.

And while I and many others find CPT a charming and lovely city, it does deserve more than 2/days, so if you can't allocate at minimum 3/days... it can be skipped. It's your safari and should meet your wishes to make your holiday a pleasant experience.

However, what really caught my attention was spending all of 3-5/days on safari! California to South Africa is a long way to go for a brief safari and not enjoy other area of this beautiful country. While CPT doesn't compare to SFO, being spread out with nowhere the amount of hills or traffic; with wine country being a short drive from most places in CA, and once you've seen one wine area feel you've seen them all regardless where in the world, there's more than "just wine" in the winelands around CPT. The towns are charming, with great restaurants and lovely architecture and worthy of relaxing days. Then there are the penguins, the botanic gardens, Table Mountain, the point down south, Robben Island, District 6 museum and the Malay district.

If you decide on only 5/days safari, then maybe it's best to consider a layover in London on your homebound trip, as you'll be exhausted from the flying and few days of safari to justify recooping somewhere before you find your way home. Planning a trip this far from home and not allowing at minimum 10/days in country would be a shame and not do justice to your time, money and the destination.

My 2-cents.

cary999

I agree with Sandi about the long flight times. After 8-10 hours I'm in a stupor of some kind (drunken if I'm lucky ) and feeling nothing. I just plod on with it, get it over with. Carolyn feels the same way, she is able to sleep a lot. But I sleep "fitfully" while sitting up.
regards - tom

annhig

hi, leslie -

the irony of my situation is that we're going to SA and CPT followed by the garden route and eastern cape safari largely because he preferred that to my idea of a holiday dedicated entirely to a safari in Kenya/Tanzania!

so I'm a little miffed at how little interest he shows in the details, like what we do if Table Mountain is wreathed in mist [not uncommon that time of year] etc.

in fact, getting up to the top of the mountain is about the only thing he has shown any interest in. WE've got 4 days to do it, I suppose, before we're due to move on along the coast.

I must stop whinging - it's only 10 weeks before we set off!

Jaspertl - i wil post the trip report, promise.

regards, ann

sandi

ann -

Every morning, first thing I did was go out on the terrace of our room in CPT. Sure enough, the tablecloth was blanketing the mountain... most frustrating. Finally, our last day, joila, bright and sunny and no clouds. Would it hold till we showered, dressed, had breakfast and go to "the mountain?" Thankfully, yes.

But, we could have been completed clouded our and not made it to the top. It's was our good fortune.

However, the other three days were full of lots that we did. And, to this day, feel that CPT is a "keeper." A really lovely city.

annhig

hi sandi,

thanks - I'll be keeping fingers and toes crossed.

regards, ann

Fabio

jaspertl

well, with about 2 weeks in your first trip to SA I would definitely skip the EU stopover and spend the whole time in Africa.

Ypu might fly in to Cape Town and out from Joburg with a domestica SA flight inbetween CPT and JNB with a small surcharge, assuming you are flying with SA and/or Star Alliance.

So with 2 weeks I would do

- 3 days Cape Town
- 3 days selfdriving around the Peninsula, Good Hope etc...
- air transfer CPT to JNB
- 6 days shared between Kruger Park (selfdriving)and Sabi Sands, 3 nights each
- flight back home after a memorable trip !!

ciao
fabio

Fabio

well, those 3 nights selfdriving around te Peninsula may also be extended to a larger area around CPT, not just the Peninsula !

On our first trip to SA our son was only 10 months old, it was january, during hot and humid summer so we decided not to do any safari due to the malaria risk. So we had 9 days in total and flew to Cape Town, then we got a car and drove the Garden Route, including the Peninsula, Cape Aguhlias, Georg, Knysna and other lovely places along the coast up to Port Elizabeth where we drop off the car, and flew back PLZ-JNB and home.
We were recommended to skip completely JNB due to a very high crime rate and almost nothing to see. It was 1996 but now it is even worst !!
but once again, as in the previous post, try to mix some of the CPT city, the landscape and game viewing safari !!

jaspertl

Fabio...your itinerary sounds interesting. I'm going to present it tomorrow night.

You would do 3 days in cape town (we would rent a car) and then drive around the area for another 3 days?