lovetodiscover

Rocco:

" During my stay at Mbuzi Mawe, there was an OAT group present, and I must say that Mbuzi Mawe was the least favorite of all the camps I had visited (Tarangire Treetops, Lake Manyara Tree Lodge, Ngorongoro Crater Lodge and Nomad Serengeti Mobile Camp). "

Is your point Rocco - that Mbuzi Mawe wa not acceptable to your standards or are you inferring that you dislike the company of large groups? Normal people, like many on the board, choose to travel with groups --- does not make them less desireable.

Roccco

I find that the larger the camp/lodge, the less personable the service. This was even true while at Tarangire Treetops, but it was such a beautiful camp, with rooms that were so tastefully done (while Mbuzi Mawe looked like it needed the help of one of the HGTV interior designers) that even Tarangire Treetops was very nice, despite its 20 tents. Plus, we were allowed the opportunity to enjoy private dinners on our beautiful balcony overlooking the horizon. This would not have been possible at Mbuzi Mawe. Another thing...the food at Mbuzi Mawe was very mediocre and there were no gameviewing tracks anywhere in the area...everything was a 45 minute drive away before there were any circuits to be found.

If I could have done it over, I would have gone all the way north to Migration Camp, despite my March visit. I ended up 1/2 way there, anyhow, while doing game drives from Mbuzi Mawe.

Finally, as it seems that this is what is trying to be squeezed out of me...admittedly, I did not enjoy sharing a camp with an OAT group. They were largely first time travelers to Africa who did not have basic understandings that a more sophisticated safarigoer would have (like it is not a laughing matter when lions are stationing themselves in the camp!). Moreover, I think it ruins the intimacy of the safari experience when there are large groups, OAT or others. Just my personal opinion but one that I use when planning safaris for my clients, as well.

Patty

Anytime you have a group, they can sort of "take over" a camp, even a group of Fodorites

The complaints that I recall seeing against OAT seem to mostly involve bumping travelers due to overbooking or cancellation of trips due to not enough travelers booked. Notice in some cases was given very close to the departure date when it would be very difficult for the traveler to find an alternative. I don't think I've read anything like that on the Africa board, but here's a thread from the Europe board - http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34546783

Comments about the tours themselves seem to be positive overall.

jules39

I have read of similar things mentioned by Ptty but I think I read it on a report on the ASIA board. I will try to find it and post a link but if you get to look before I do just do a search for OAT on the Asia board.
J

jules39

Try this

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=27

Hope it works!
J

jules39

Sorry I am missing something in the link! But if you search on the Asia board under OAT it is the first thread that comes up.
J

climbhighsleeplow

Maybe my previous post was a bit strong. My apologies.

What rattles my cage a bit are constant claims that thousands of dollars can be saved on these group tours!

My question is simply: Are you sure?

For example, compare OAT or 2Afrika tours with this published Good Earth itinerary: http://www.goodearthtours.com/migration_safari.html

To me, the GE accommodations look far superior yet the packaged (air included) fares are comparable (but understandably more). Should one downscales the GE accommodations to compare with OAT then a private GE safari will certainly be cheaper than OAT/2Afrika group tours of 10-60 people!

And GE is not even the cheapest outfitter! I wish Leopard/Sunny/Ranger and others will also publish their prices!

Kavey

Jules, to get the full link for that thread, once you've pulled it up yourself, right click on the title of the thread (assuming you're on a PC, not a MAC) and copy the shortcut/ link location and then paste that into your post here.

lovetodiscover

Eben - it might be my math, but with a longer stay on OAT (~2 weeks) vs. ~ 10 nights with GE, OAT is still less expensive on safari portion with airfare excluded. Actually to me it does make sense for a private safari to be more costly. There are some flexibility issues on group tours.

Patty

OAT's trip isn't 2 weeks if we're talking about their Tanzania one. The actual safari is 9 nights plus 2 nights in Arusha.

I think the Good Earth itinerary is 8 nights safari plus 2 nights Arusha if I counted right, so 1 night difference.

lovetodiscover

Thanks, Patty. Actually, I was comparing the wrong rates - thinking of the Ultimate Africa (s. africa , botswana, etc) which is 19 days. There is the Best of Kenya and Tanzania for ~ 2 weeks. These longer trips probably do have ~4 days of travel time built in.

Really, it will come down to who/which company Barbara prefers or whether a group or private tour is more attractive.

Barbara - reading back, I think we missed talking about S. Africa since your focus was on Botswana / S. Africa. There are several others who have taken trips there so will pass back to others.

Bo2642

Thanks, Everybody, for a lively and useful discussion. At the end of the day, I would not hesitate to take another trip with OAT, having had positive experiences with them previously. That is to say, I'd take a chance. Re the BBB reports, where there's smoke, etc..... I'm certain that there are those who've had problems which negatively impacted much longed for trips and resulted in anger and disappointment. Yet, realizing the "things happen" in even the best planned out activities, I think that Ry2two makes a good point that one should look at percentages rather than just numbers. Also lovetodiscover where she pointed out that many of the most reputable companies do not even choose to be registered with the BBB. All that being said, here's where we are right now:
Climbhigh--your assertion that one can do an independent private safari for the same money or less hasn't fallen on deaf ears. Once I get past being intimidated by the overwhelming number of camp/lodge choices and what it takes to get from Johannesburg to Cape Town to...well, all those connection logistics. Boy, I'm not certain I have the confidence to get into that sort of thing.
What we might do is get back to 2Afrika. We had the most incredible experience with them a year ago. In fact, on this date, July 4, we were just leaving the Tanzania leg of our trip to tap into the Kenya part. What a way to enjoy July 4: flying from Arusha to Nairobi and seeing Mt. Kilimanjaro from the air.
In Tanzania, my travel partner and I, though we neither asked for it nor paid for it, were welcomed by our very own driver/spotter/guide--wonderful Mathias who gave us greater animal sightings than we could ever have hoped for. In addition, he was a very nice man. This boiled down to private game drives for us, just my travel partner and me. Mathias never ever hurried us as we watched animal activity. Never gave any indication of wanting to move on until we gave him the signal. That was special and gave us insight into the value of not being packed into a van with several other people. Why 2Afrika arranged this for us, I have no idea. Maybe we were just lucky especially in light of the fact that there were two other people who were on that same 2Afrika itinerary and who also had their own driver/spotter/guide just as we had. Doesn't make financial sense for the company, so go figure.
For the Kenya part of the trip, we found ourselves with just the two other gals who had been on the 2Afrika segment in Tanzania, and this time we were put together with Denis, who was as excellent a driver/spotter/guide as Mathias (Wildlife Safari (although his vehicle also had a sign Leopard Safari [lots of freelancing here?]) was for us in Tanzania and Robert (Predators) was for our friends there.
Bottom line, our guides were great, and we had a private safari in Tanzania and a semi-private safari in Kenya.
Our accommodations were not deluxe or luxury. We especailly loved the Kirurumu Tented Lodge near Lake Manyara, the Serena Mountain Lodge, in Kenya, and the Siana Springs Lodge near the Masai Mara. They were not particulary intimate or exclusive, but for us, it wasn't the lodging that was the priority; it was seeing the wildlife.
So....we might get back to Ken at 2Afrika to see if he could customize our Botswana tour so that we would not have to share a game drive guide and vehicle with anyone else. Would be worth the extra $$. Of course, what we're really hoping is that our two friends, the ones who were with us when we were in Kenya, will be joining us. Were that to happen, we'd look into having the driver/guide/vehicle for the four of us.