Of course I agree with all those saying that they'd prefer to pay less rather than pay for a service they won't use. But I think the topic is about the upmarket lodges, where you pay A LOT already. Personally I consider it unacceptable to pay more than $1000 pppn and not have a vehicle for exclusive use. There are some lodges/camps that will provide this ath this price, but they are few and far between. Others will charge $300-700 for a private vehicle, and still others don't even offer that option because they only have 2 or 3 vehicles for 5-7 tents.

I'm all for non-inclusive accommodation since I love to self-drive in game drives. I choose to self drive even when in a lodge where game drives are included in the price. Heck, I also self-drove when I had my own driver and vehicle, with the driver in the back seat So I don't like the fact that in the vast majority of cases I can't book a lodge without also paying for the game drives, meals that I won't eat because I will be away and drinks that I won't have because I don't drink. BUT, if I were to have some luxury safari in which I would pay a lot of money in order to have everything done by someone else, then it would look really bad if laundry was not included.

"... I can't book a lodge without also paying for the game drives, meals that I won't eat because I will be away..."

Good point MM. Maybe the camps should have a basic room rate, like a hotel, then EVERYTHING else is add on cost?? No thanks

You know, there is a safari camp like that - Kruger. You pay for a bungalow and everything else you do and pay for. Works for us and so do camps that are all inclusive
regards - tom

Tom, the Kruger model (and the SANP model in general) is amazing and it can't be replicated, simply because the private sector has much less to do with the park management in South Africa. In Kruger you can self-drive, get off at a camp or picnic site and have a meal or buy a bottle of water. This simple thing is next to impossible in big national parks of other countries; you have to go to a lodge for everything, sometimes even to fill up on gas.

But while the Kruger model can't be replicated in parks of other countries, it can certainly be replicated in budget lodges. And some already do employ this non-inclusive model. Eg Chobe Safari Lodge: http://www.chobesafarilodge.com/rates.php You pay exactly what you get and nothing more. This makes perfect sense for travellers on a budget.

What it doesn't make sense is the upmarket lodges behaving like budget ones, hence this thread. When I'm in a budget/medium lodge, I'd love to choose what I pay for. But when I'm in luxurious place, I hate to see that the owners are cheapskates.

Daily laundry service is not a service you should have to do without. While on safari it is a luxury to be able to travel light. We have only run into this issue one time and it was in Kruger,(we rarely go to Kruger) Most of your private game lodges still offer daily laundry, soft drinks, and alcohol included. In regards to vehicles game drives etc. You should be able to secure a private safari vehicle with a guide/driver for $150.00 to $300.00 per day for the duration of your safari. This price varies from country to country of course. We just spent this September in Zimbabwe and private vehicle,(provided by guide) was $150.00 per day.

Tim
The daily rate for the SUV seems to be extremely cheap.

The camp which charged that little was it solely photographic safari or was it on a hunting safari?

Would you mind to give us some more info in case it was solely photographic:

- name of camp
- area
- bed night rate
- etc.

THX!

This was a photographic trip. Some of the lodges we use are private or government owned concessions that do offer hunting. We do not have photographic safaris in camps at the same time hunters are there. The rates for driver/guide is low because we have our own guides in Africa for this purpose.
We also work directly with the owners of the lodges and concessions so no middleman. Below is a couple of links to typical lodges we use.
http://www.mhlozibushcamp.co.za/imag...Image_Id=47#47
http://www.hluhluwe.co.za/site/default.asp
I do not want to go further on a forum setting for fear of looking like I am trying to "Sell"
My e-mail address is on my personal profile page please send me a message and I will provide you with any information you like.
Thanks

"Extremely cheap"?? The rates by Tim416 are in line with what I've heard for a private vehicle and guide provided at a camp. And cost does seem to vary widely/wildly. But I've not done such. An SUV, SUV you say, from Avis and private guide would surely be a lot more than this.

And welcome Tim416 to the Fodors forum.

regards - tom

Thank you Tim for the information - very much appreciated particularly as you state openly you have mixed guests at the same time: photographic and hunting.

150US$/day for SUV Tom pls inform where you got that.
The MINIMUM is 260US$/day Kenya - 300US$/day Southern Africa as far as I know - and I know quite a few camps but would love to add some cheap or favourable ones.

Not SUV. Not SUV like you rent/hire from Avis. I'm talking about an old (beat up and noisy?) Land Rover, typically used in safari camps. The Land Rover being owned by the camp or being owned by the guide. Can't give specific camp or guide that has this rate but I have heard of $150-$300 range before here. Also heard of it being a lot more $$$. If you check camp web sites, most camps don't publish a private vehicle rate. So not that easy to verify. But I think 90% of them offer it, you need to ask directly about it.

I'm sure there are camps in SA that charge $300 - and more per day. But I bet I could find some less than $300. One camp I know for sure, Kings Camp, Timbavati, a couple of years ago, was $200/day for private vehicle. Betya they're in the $200-$250 range today.

On another tack, I would not go to a camp that allows hunting. If for no other selfish reason than I would think the wildlife would be very wary of humans. And thus making photography difficult.

regards - tom

tom
S(ole)U(se)of V(ehicle)

sorry tom, for not being more clear!

FWIW
SUV in USA is a (S)port (U)tility (V)ehicle. A Land Rover qualifies, so do many models made by M-B, Toyota, Ford, etc. Typically 4 wheel drive, big, heavy and expensive to rent/hire.

regards - tom

We DO NOT have photographic trips in camps if there are hunters in the same camp.

We own our own vehicles. Toyota Landcruisers 2007 and newer equipped with high game viewing seats.
We do not rent them from the camps.

Hunting is NEVER mixed with photographic safaris.

Sorry if I was not clear on that.

Tim

At the hunting camps, do for example lions and leopards allow non-hunters to come as close to them as in a non-hunting camps?

regards - tom

Tom,

You have asked a fantastic question!

One I have not been asked in my fifteen years of offering safaris.

I have copied it and sent it to our staff in order to compile what I trust will be an honest anwser.

Our guides have over fifty years of combined experience in guiding photographic and hunting safaris. Some have worked for the national parks in Africa.

As soon as I have compiled their opinions on this question I will post it here.

Thanks again for the great question and am looking forward to hearing the feedback.

Tim

Isn't it dangerous for the animals to try to acclimate them to the safe photo safari vehicles and then drive up with a hunting safari? Sounds mean to me. That's why I try to go to non-hunting concessions, not because I'm anti-hunting.

From everything I've heard, anywhere hunting is allowed, the animals are more skittish. For good reason. The newer photo concessions have trouble for the first few years until the animals feel safe. But to have both? I don't know how that could work well.

Thanks Tim, will be curious to know.
I'm wondering if the wildlife "knows" the difference between humans in a vehicle shooting cameras and those shooting guns? But actually maybe it is how they are hunted, that is, on foot, from vehicle, from a hide?

regards - tom