divine54

snit

"Even more surprising is that Div and I agree on something"

if somebody is right then it remains right doesn't matter who posts!

david evens is besides other duties head of marketing.

i am extremly disturbed that the comp has not informed whether the lion has been de-collared.

i find it very sad that obviously camps and lodges gain good income from nature but obviously are hesistant to step in if an animal in need asks for actions.
maybe they do so if that lion was one of the last ones in the vicinity. but as long as there are others.....who cares. very sad.
ethically more than questionable!

div

ShellCat

It is strange to read your report and then Cindy's, which is presently directly above yours. I am sorry you were disappointed, more than a little. I am going to both Mala Mala and Matshatu in three weeks, so will post a trip report for both in November.

No amount of negativity is ruining my expectations of a great trip. The weather just turned rainy and cold and I am ready to escape.

I wish you luck in the future.

Shellcat

safarichuck

ShellCat,
I just returned from safari to Mala Mala and also Botswana (Wilderness Camps). Both were fabulous. I wouldn't let this tracker issue bother me one bit. The guides at Mala Mala are very very good and the Trackers postion really works out well for photography. Both Tracker and guide were effective in spotting and tracking. Good off roading often results in lots of flat tires. The tracker + ranger combination make short work out of tire changes and we had many of those. All things considered I found the ranger/guides at Mala Mala among the most professional I have ever used.
Chuck

ShellCat

Chuck-

Thanks for the message, I completely agree with you regarding Mala Mala having been there last year. All other reports for Matshatu have been very good, so I am sorry it did not live up to Snik's expectations.

I am glad you enjoyed your time and had great guides. Three weeks and counting down to departure.

skimmer

Ken,

Thanks for your honest report.

I had a great time at tented camp (luckily I went in a period while Mashatu wasn't busy at all - so mostly I didn't had to share the vehicle with many other people). Going to main camp would never be a thing I would take into consideration myself.

Like I said before, collaring animals is a very controversial issue. From a selfish point, I wouldn't like it as it spoils my photography. Anyway, what is unacceptable is the way some collaring is done here.

The way they handle the approach to the den (wild dogs) is unacceptable and I definitely will write an e-mail about it.

As a personal note, every safari operation got its own problems and Ken pointed some of them out here at Mashatu. I don't think these forums are always the best medium to do so... but that's my own opinion because some of my statements would be based on personal preferences and other things can't be told in public anyway.

Greetz,

Johan

PS: By the way, some nice pics here.

sniktawk

Johan,

Thanks for your comments!

The rest of our trip was great.

This thread only got into the condition it did as a result of spook postings and the attitude of Mashatu. Do you think that the comments they made should go unreported?

One final thing on the "tracker" positioning when they are on the back at night you must keep looking forward, a blinding spotlight coming from behind is no fun at all. IMHO

Livelife

Dear sniktawk and all other readers and contributers,

I have read this debate with great interest, not missing a single reply or comment!

I know Mashatu intimately having been part of the team in the past, and therefore I will not make my name known, simply out of respect for those friends of mine who may have been referred to in the comments above, including rangers, trackers, researchers and other Mashatu staff members. However, I write this completely objectively and with the aim to simply shed some light on certain issues...

I would like to start with what I feel is most important: The wild dog issue!! Interference near den sites can have a massive influence on the animals’ behaviour and I am just as concerned as many of you about the behaviour of the horse riders... However, I would like to ask another important question: How much pressure do the game drive vehicles place on the dogs??? As far as I understand the dogs are visited on a daily basis!?? How close do the vehicles get? Are people completely silent? How long do they stay? There are so many questions... On the other hand one may ask: Does any of this really bother the dogs?? Sure, they will get a fright and run into the den, but does it stress them enough to leave all together? My point being, maybe it is not just the horse riders that should be careful about their behaviour!! Agree? In terms of collars: Four collars on a wild dog pack of that size is not many! Dogs cover massive areas in very short periods of time, often splitting up... The more dogs collared, the better the chances are of learning more about their dispersal and movement patterns, which is currently much more important for their survival as a species then pretty photos... And as sniktawk has shown, one CAN get great wild dog photos even if some are collared. Understanding WHY animals are collared in the wild is very important and I get the feeling this message was not made clear at Mashatu, which is a personal concern...
Let me explain: Mashatu forms part of the Northern Tuli Game Reserve. This reserve, in turn, forms part of the proposed Limpopo-Shashe Transfrontier Conservation Area – a mega reserve that stretches over three countries – South Africa, Zimbabwe and Botswana. The problem is that there are so many different land-use systems in this area – hunters, farmers, local communities and of course eco tourism destinations like Mashatu. The problem is that the predators and other wildlife moves freely between these areas and therefore lions that are one day seen on a game drive may be shot on a farmer’s land the next! This is why it is so important to collar lions, leopards and other species! It is not done for the fun or for guaranteeing sightings!!!!!!

Something you may not know is that most of Mashatu’s young male lions leave the reserve at the age of 2 plus, when young males are due to disperse... The problem is that they seldom return! And that very few other males enter!! Where do they go? And who or what kills them?? This is what researchers are trying to answer! They are not collaring females, but rather young males which are due to leave soon...and once they go, the satellite collars they wear will provide extremely valuable information about their movements, and even their death! If we don’t know who kills them, how can we stop it!???

Regarding collar size: Researchers are experts. They fit the collars to be just tight enough so that the animal can’t get them off, and never too tight to strangle the animal. Remember that a collar on a male lion, with a mane, will always LOOK too tight, but actually has a lot of room to move freely under the hair. I have seen this many times myself and have, since I have read about your concerns, contacted a lion researcher who put my heart at rest. A collar that is really too tight will have the animal constantly tugging at it and will show clear signs of swelling, etc. I have seen no photos of the collared animal posted by sniktwak, but if you have any, I urge you to post them so that it can be investigated! I guarantee you that the Mashatu staff WILL act if necessary!!! No one has to worry about this!

As reserves get smaller and smaller, it becomes very important to know where animals move and where they are in danger, so please try to understand why they are collared in certain areas... Instead of complaining about your photo opportunities, rather try to have a conversation with one of the researchers over supper and try to find out what the goals of the study is... I am sure you will learn that they truly care about the lions, leopards and wild dogs just as much as we do!

Something you should know about Mashatu’s trackers: It is all about the definition of “trackers”... In Mashatu, the tracker is not the old, wise man who knows the bush intimately, but rather the young man who wants to learn from the ranger. In other reserves this is often the opposite, with a young ranger (who generally speaks good English and has little experience) and an old, local tracker with incredible skill... At Mashatu the rangers are generally older and have the skill. I have seen the guys tracking cheetah and leopard in ways that will boggle your mind – they are true experts!!! During any tracking experience, whether it is done by a tracker in front or a ranger driving, talking should be at a minimum, so I don’t think it’s a problem if the driving ranger does the physical tracking...! Agree?? In Botswana, guides HAVE to be a learning tracker for FIVE years before they may guide – this is why it is done this way! I think it’s great, because by the time they are rangers, they have learnt sooo much! With Mashatu’s massive elephant population (I have seen 800 plus on one sighting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) it is way too dangerous to sit in front – full stop.
So, before I write a novel, please try to understand WHY things are done in certain ways... If you try to understand and respect that, you’re experience will be so much better. Don’t make it unpleasant before you even go, just because you like things a certain way. The wonderful thing about Africa’s game lodges is the fact that they are so different, don’t you think???
Take time to really talk to the guides, soak in the landscape and appreciate ALL the wildlife. Forget about lions, leopards and cheetahs around every corner and cherish the bat eared foxes, aardwolf and honey badgers, all of which I have seen at Mashatu on many occasions!

For those of you who have been put off after reading sniktawk’s messages: Don’t cancel your trip!!!! Mashatu is a magical place, and might even be the best kept secret in Africa!!! There will always be some things you don’t enjoy about a game lodge, but I think it has much more to do about your attitude than with the actual events and sightings! Viva Mashatu...

cary999

Thank you Livelife for your perspective on this.

regards - tom

andybiggs

Good information, Livelife. Nice to hear both sides.

divine54

livelife

thank you for your elaboration.

you describe the huge 3 countries (one of them zimbabwe) involving area which can be covered by the wildlife. and you also explain that young male lions get collared.

wouldn't it be wise to collar any wildlife with these - more expensive but rather safe - self release collars?

we have seen youngsters with far too tight collars. so it's especially in huge areas more than likely that researchers loose track!
furthermore researchers are funded by organisations (mostly NGO's) which eventually run into financial difficulties and ask the researchers to stop the field work. we have experienced that more than once.

regarding the pax per vehicle:
as far as i know you seat 7 pax means incl. the passenger's seat besides the driver.
normally this seat is vacant for the tracker to jump in if situation requests this.

finally
as you state the driver is the ranger and the ranger is the guy with the better tracking skills.
how can they be able to drive, explain and track all at the same time?
we have experienced driver-guides without trackers (system in east africa) who simply could not track at all due to demand for their driving skills in the terrain.

i must admit that we enjoy enormously staying in camps which have the tracker-ranger-combo and where the tracker is from the shangan tribe who are by far the best trackers in that part of southern africa.
maybe that would offer a solution.

div

andybiggs

Divine, if you have not had guides that can track and drive a vehicle then I think you have not had experienced guides. East Africa is a different animal altogether, as the closed vehicles make it much more difficult to do any tracking. There are also fewer off roading abilities there, as well.

Seriously, I have had some of the best guides in the industry, and part of their skill set is to do their own tracking. Additional help is also nice, but an experienced guide should be able to find game on his own. If a guide has to 100% rely on somebody else for tracking, I suspect he is much less experienced and likes the additional assistance.

KayeN

Hi Livelife

Being a huge MalaMala fan, I found some of the issues mentioned needed more information on some issues, especially as I am heading there for my first trip in January 2009. I have been told to be prepared for the collars which I don't like, and who does, but I fully understand the reasons behind them, not to mention the high cost of the collar being replaced by something more up-to-date. At MM, I have seen a collared ele and a young male lion, and as you mention, his collar looked firm to me, but it was explained why this needs to be the case, and as mentioned it probably did look tighter than it felt.

MM management will be pleased that I will no longer need to email them with some questions as you have answered any that I may have had plus some, so thanks for taking the time. It certainly hadn't put me off in the slightest because people I have met and have similar gameviewing tastes to mine have said how much they loved it, and that is more than enough for me. In fact I am in the process of making reservations for Xmas of 2009.

So whoever you may be Livelife, thanks again.

Kind regards

Kaye

KayeN

Hi Livelife

Forgot to mention, regarding the tracker in the back of the vehicle -on this one I am definitely with Andy, without doubt I prefer the tracker in the back out of my camera focus. By far the majority of my gamedrives have been at MM where this is the norm, but when I have been at other lodges/reserves and the tracker has been on the front, for my photography and for his safety, I definitely prefer him to be inside the vehicle. I don't know how he cannot be in your way, when you are following an animal on the move and you are stopping and starting. I have also been in a vehicle when a lioness has charged the tracker sitting on the front and it was very lucky for the tracker that the ranger was looking at the lionesses because if he had been turning around talking to a guest, I hate to think what may have happened! I also like the fact that the tracker can let the ranger know when guests are doing something stupid, like standing for a better look - which can easily destroy a sighting if the animals move off in fright!

Kind regards

Kaye

Livelife

I am glad that I was able to answer at least a few questions...and urge you to ask if there is anything else, especially regarding the collars. I would like to comment on the self-drop collars:
These more-expensive collars are not always the best option...and here’s why: They either drop off by sending it a UHF-signal (which still means you have to get close to the animal) or by setting a fixed date on which it should drop off. Both mechanisms require an additional box (over and above the VHF-transmitter and GPS) to be placed on the collar. This makes the collar a bit too heavy for my liking...
Remember – the collars that are fitted to the young male lions of Mashatu are satellite collars and therefore it is possible to track them constantly, no matter where they move! Even if they go into Zimbabwe. The researchers in this area have formed a group, the Shashe Limpopo Predator Research Group, and therefore they have contacts in all three countries who can help if there is tracking that needs to be done or an animal has to be checked up or un-collared. Don’t for one second doubt that the researchers care for these lions as much as you do! Of course they do!! Also remember that young animals are the ones which disperse, and therefore THEY are the ones that have to be collared. I know there is always some risk involved, since darting can be a traumatic experience, but if you understand WHY they are collared and that it may actually ensure the conservation of the species in the area, it is 100% justified!
I am still waiting for a photo showing the Tuli lion’s collar being too tight...

Regarding tracking: I agree that a good guide can track on his own and does not need a guy in the front. And surely you don’t want your guide talking ALL the time...!??? Driving and tracking at the same time, especially in an open reserve like Mashatu, is not difficult. I have watched guys track at Mashatu with incredible skill, without getting confused with driving, tracking and talking at the same time... I don’t think Mashatu will ever have a guy in front – it is simply too dangerous! So leave it be. Sniktawk was unlucky not to see big herd of elephants, but believe me, Mashatu is one of the best (if not the best) place in the world to get close to massive herds of elephants...and the last place you want to be is on the front. Yes, yes, I know the tracker can jump into the passenger seat, but what a silly thing to have to do every time you get to an elephant, leopard, lion...etc. If you are going to Mashatu, just accept this fact and enjoy (1) having a clear view in front, and (2) having a youngster at the back who is keen to learn, but also has incredible eyes and a great sense of humour. Believe me, they don’t just sit and steal air at the back – they are great spotters and often full of information!
A last thing I would like to mention: If you are not happy with set times, do the following:
Talk to the other guests on your vehicle about maybe leaving a bit earlier in the morning or the afternoon. If all of you agree, approach the ranger and just ASK. They are more often than not willing to leave earlier, as long as everyone is happy on the vehicle. It’s not so easy to come back late, because this makes it very difficult for the kitchen. Imagine the frustration if some folks stay out late and then complain about the food that is not perfect!! I promise you that will happen! If you want to take a short game walk during the drive, ASK! The rangers have rifles and may take you on a short walk to see the smaller things... Mashatu is rigid, but also flexible in many ways...

pixelpower

Great post, LiveLife! Thanks for that info from the "other" side. I guess it's as with everything; there is no black nor white, no easy solutions either. It's all shades of gray.

The comments you made about the collars are very useful info. But still, as an outsider, I remain concerned. If I may quote what sniktawk wrote:


"We complained to one of the researchers who responded that it was not one of the Lions he had collared so he could do nothing about it (eco friendly or what?)"

So he DID talk to a researcher, who apparently DID NOT disagree with him.

"I will not mention our guides name but he was clearly disheartened, the reason for this was evidently the researchers. These people interfere with the running of camp and sell their guided tours to unsuspecting tourists were it not for Helena restraining me I would gladly have collared the lot, the tales they told were monstrously false, it was quite sickening!"

If the guide agrees as well, I'm sure there IS something going wrong. Right?

The issue of the "tracker" front or back I consider to be a minor issue. I'm actually with Andy on this one. Having just experienced the skills of someone like Ewan Masson, I am 100% confident my judgement on this is correct.

Ciao,

J.

Tanky

I believe some of you are missing the point about the tracker. It's not a case of the guide not being a able to track. It's the fact that the tracker concentrates on tracking with the assistance of the guide. No-one can seriously argue that having one person (who is also driving, guiding etc) looking for spoor is better than two. It's utterly ridiculous to suggest otherwise. However, it sounds as if the Mashatu trackers are trainee guides rather than trackers.

About the spotter sitting at the back - as PB has already said there is no way he can spot spoor in front of a travelling vehicle. If the spoor is on the front left side of the vehicle neither the guide or the spotter will see it. Of those advocating spotters and or no tracker how do you know how many times you have missed tracks? You only know about those that are found.

As for 'way too dangerous' to sit on the front - sorry, but that isn't the case with good guides. If the tracker on the front finds himself in danger from elephants then so is everyone else in the vehicle.

cbdemille

LiveLife. and everybody else

Firstly I find it strange that you feel the need to respond as a friend of Mashatu. I find it even stranger that the company refuses to fully answer the points raised either directly to me or to the readers of this forum. I am afraid that the usually proffered answer of you “have no knowledge” cuts no ice with me.

You are correct that the comments made by Mashatu about the wild dogs are the most disturbing factor in this whole sorry episode. In common with most people with any knowledge of Wild Dogs, it is known that they bear no grudges or come to any harm from careful visitation from people on vehicles. I cannot vouch for the standards of behaviour of some visitors but can say I have been very close to Wild Dogs on many occasions on foot as well as in vehicles, and never considered that my presence has in anyway unduly interfered with them. Given the quality of my guides on each occasion I am quite sure that this is correct.
Your comments about collars go against anything I or others that are interested in Wild Dogs have seen. I have only ever seen collars on Wild Dogs in Madikwe or Marakele in both cases each pack has ONE dog collared usually the Alpha Male or Alpha Female, this is normally sufficient for researchers to monitor the movements of the entire pack, and hopefully assist in their development. Given that both of these areas are involved in the breeding of Wild Dogs for future release into other parks in SA or as in this case Botswana, then I find this to be acceptable. It should also be noted that these parks regularly check the dogs for disease and inoculate as necessary; therefore the use of collars is totally acceptable. You note that I have managed to take photos of the dogs without collars quite successfully, this is correct, primarily as a result of the majority of my photos being of pups.
I and many others know where the Tuli block is, and are also familiar with the PROPOSED Transfrontier Park. I am aware of the current land use and the proposals of WWF amongst others as to the sustainable management of Wild Life in these parks, including HUNTING! I support the work of John Hanks and others in this area , they provide a sensible approach to the inevitable disputes between Human and Wildife populations, and the results of this approach are certainly supported by the success of conservancies in Namibia, which are managed in this entirely sensible manner.
I fail to see how the collaring of Lions and other predators helps in preventing such animals from being shot in hunting areas, either in Botswana or adjacent countries. Interestingly enough this is the very question that the researchers at Mashatu were unable to provide an answer to. You do not stop hunting by collaring Lions, you know who is killing Lions, or at least that is what David Evans says, it is either the daughter of Joshua Nkomo or a dastardly Swede over the border in SA
Personally I am not surprised that young male lions leave Mashatu at 2 years, they are probably sick of being strangled or looking for females, which are apparently not present in great numbers.
I have seen many collared Lions and have never seen a Lion with a collar so tight that hair was being prevented from growing and skin damage was clearly visible. If you had read this post then you would know that the staff, researchers and others were told of this situation and chose to nothing about it. I and hopefully others will remain worried until such time as evidence is offered that this disgraceful situation has been rectified!

Perhaps you might be able to explain where it is that reserves get smaller and smaller, I am unaware of this happening, I also see no reason why this could affect the need for collaring. In Mashatu which is a fairly small area there are clearly many vehicles out and about in the area on a daily basis from both Tented and Main Camps, they are also those that emanate from Rock Camp. Do really not believe that this is sufficient to monitor the wildlife population?

Your comments on “trackers” are most illuminating, and go someway to support my inference that they are not very useful., and in our case not worthy of inclusion on the vehicle irrespective of where they sit.

Divine54

At last we have a good subject to mostly agree on, perhaps we will be accused of being the same person again.

Andy
Whatever you say about trackers, I find it hard to believe that you can really believe that one pair of eyes is better than two! I for one would be most please to find out where it is you have had trackers sitting on the bonnet that have interfered with your ability to photograph. I have never comer across such a place, perhaps I am lucky!

andybiggs

dbdemille-

I have not said that trackers aren't welcome or aren't a nice thing to have, I have just mentioned that a good guide can do tracking by himself. I don't mind a tracker in the vehicle, and if there is one I would prefer that he be in the rear of the vehicle, as to not interfere with my line of sight for photography.

sniktawk

I obviously posted the above message under a wrong nom de plume.
I do hope that this does not cause any confusion
Andy
We clearly disagree on this subject, that is of course your perogative. Would it be possible for you to tell us how many camps that you have experienced the tracker at the front of the vehicle. I know that this is uncommon in Tanzania and at WS.

andybiggs

Yeah, I do believe we can disagree. No worries, and I am just illustrating the other side. I have been on about 5 safaris, spanned over a few years, where we had trackers on the front. I just think that in my experiences I prefer to have an experienced guide/ranger that can do his/her on tracking with some support from a tracker from the rear. A tracker on the front isn't wholly compatible with a vehicle of photographers in my experiences.

I have a question for you: have you been on many safaris where the tracker is in the rear seat? I know you have been to Mashatu, but how many other experiences have you encoutered?

Just two different approaches with two different opinions. It is what it is, and you have your opinion and now know the type of safari that you prefer. You have more safaris under your belt and as a result you can have a more robust conversation with your travel agent. That is a good thing!