mala mala or londolozi
Feb 2nd, 2007, 04:00 AM
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Hello,
It's been interesting to read all the MM / Londoz comments. As some of you know, I've been going to Londoz for years, whereas my first visit to MM was in July 2006. Here are a brief summary of my impressions (they will be more detailed in my trip report, when I finally get around to it):
Both lodges have phenomenal game-viewing. I would say that MM gives a more varied experience due to the size of the property whereas Londoz is more big cat focused (specifically on leopards). This is not to say you can't have fabulous leopard sightings at MM, but that MM also offers very good sightings of other species as well whereas Londoz tends to lean specifically towards big cats.
At both MM and Londoz I told my ranger than I wanted to focus on the cats and particularly on leopards. While I was at MM, we effecively 'stumbled' across some wonderful rhino, elephant, and buffalo sightings. At Londoz it was leopards, leopards, leopards (not that I'm complaining in the least!).
I would say that MM is more about hard-core game-viewing than Londoz is, though it's a bit hard to judge since I've had private vehicles on many of my stays and I like to go out early and come back late. At both lodges the rangers were happy to accommodate my request for an early departure and late return to camp. I never felt like I was being rushed back to be there in time for dinner or some such at either lodge.
My rangers at both lodges have been top notch. Raimond at MM was one of the best rangers I ever had, and we had a wonderful safari. I was a bit nervous about spending so much time with my ranger (as a solo traveller, this is probably a bigger factor for me than for someone travelling with a companion) but we got on so well it was brilliant. I requested a ranger with a strong interest in photography and Raimond definitely fit the bill. He's also doing a PhD in genetics which is my academic field so we had a lot in common. I was impressed by how thoroughly he'd read the information I sent on ahead. Even given that I've been going to Londoz for years and they probably have an enormous file there detailing every weird request I've made over the years, Raimond gave me the sense that he'd really done his homework in terms of making the effort to know what I wanted out of my safari.
I stayed at Sable Camp at MM, and visited Main Camp and Rattrays. Despite the comments some people have made about the TVs and Internet access at Rattrays, I found them very inobtrusive. The TV was tucked away in a corner and all the couches in th sitting room were orientated towards the bush outside -- anyone who wanted to watch TV would have had to put in quite a bit of effort to get the furniture into position! To me, this reflected the MM philisophy that while they may offer these luxuries for guests who request them, their first priority is game-viewing.
As an aside, I've found that I really like the idea of in-room Internet access having spent way too long waiting for access to the computers at other lodges just to do a quick email check. Being able to check email means I can spend longer in the bush than I otherwise could, so I hope other lodges will follow suit. I know Singita has plans to install wireless.
MM Main Camp does have a more substantial feel than many other camps, but that's due to the architecture as much as the size. I didn't feel that there were hordes of people by any means. Supposedly there were some small children in camp but I didn't hear or see them (thank God).
Personally I prefer the aesthetics at Londoz, especially Pioneer and Tree Camps which have a lovely intimate feel to them. This is really a matter of taste. The upcoming renovations sound like they will defiintely move things to a different level in terms of accommodation, but prices will stay around the same level (and remain single-supplement free for stays of 4 nights or longer).
I agree with Tom about the drinks policy at MM -- it does jar a bit. I'd rather pay a bit more and have soft drinks and local alcohol included to smooth this out as it's practically the only thing which does not run like clockwork. This would also mean you could avoid the credit card swiping at check-in which was the only thing which really felt hotel-like.
So which one is better for you depends on what you want. I would happily return to either place and would feel certain that I would have excellent game viewing and guiding.
For me Londoz has a bit of an edge because I've come to know many of the staff (who will be staying on) and many of the resident predators and I enjoy 'catching up' with them when I visit. But for someone without these ties, I think you'd do well either way.
Cheers,
Julian
It's been interesting to read all the MM / Londoz comments. As some of you know, I've been going to Londoz for years, whereas my first visit to MM was in July 2006. Here are a brief summary of my impressions (they will be more detailed in my trip report, when I finally get around to it):
Both lodges have phenomenal game-viewing. I would say that MM gives a more varied experience due to the size of the property whereas Londoz is more big cat focused (specifically on leopards). This is not to say you can't have fabulous leopard sightings at MM, but that MM also offers very good sightings of other species as well whereas Londoz tends to lean specifically towards big cats.
At both MM and Londoz I told my ranger than I wanted to focus on the cats and particularly on leopards. While I was at MM, we effecively 'stumbled' across some wonderful rhino, elephant, and buffalo sightings. At Londoz it was leopards, leopards, leopards (not that I'm complaining in the least!).
I would say that MM is more about hard-core game-viewing than Londoz is, though it's a bit hard to judge since I've had private vehicles on many of my stays and I like to go out early and come back late. At both lodges the rangers were happy to accommodate my request for an early departure and late return to camp. I never felt like I was being rushed back to be there in time for dinner or some such at either lodge.
My rangers at both lodges have been top notch. Raimond at MM was one of the best rangers I ever had, and we had a wonderful safari. I was a bit nervous about spending so much time with my ranger (as a solo traveller, this is probably a bigger factor for me than for someone travelling with a companion) but we got on so well it was brilliant. I requested a ranger with a strong interest in photography and Raimond definitely fit the bill. He's also doing a PhD in genetics which is my academic field so we had a lot in common. I was impressed by how thoroughly he'd read the information I sent on ahead. Even given that I've been going to Londoz for years and they probably have an enormous file there detailing every weird request I've made over the years, Raimond gave me the sense that he'd really done his homework in terms of making the effort to know what I wanted out of my safari.
I stayed at Sable Camp at MM, and visited Main Camp and Rattrays. Despite the comments some people have made about the TVs and Internet access at Rattrays, I found them very inobtrusive. The TV was tucked away in a corner and all the couches in th sitting room were orientated towards the bush outside -- anyone who wanted to watch TV would have had to put in quite a bit of effort to get the furniture into position! To me, this reflected the MM philisophy that while they may offer these luxuries for guests who request them, their first priority is game-viewing.
As an aside, I've found that I really like the idea of in-room Internet access having spent way too long waiting for access to the computers at other lodges just to do a quick email check. Being able to check email means I can spend longer in the bush than I otherwise could, so I hope other lodges will follow suit. I know Singita has plans to install wireless.
MM Main Camp does have a more substantial feel than many other camps, but that's due to the architecture as much as the size. I didn't feel that there were hordes of people by any means. Supposedly there were some small children in camp but I didn't hear or see them (thank God).
Personally I prefer the aesthetics at Londoz, especially Pioneer and Tree Camps which have a lovely intimate feel to them. This is really a matter of taste. The upcoming renovations sound like they will defiintely move things to a different level in terms of accommodation, but prices will stay around the same level (and remain single-supplement free for stays of 4 nights or longer).
I agree with Tom about the drinks policy at MM -- it does jar a bit. I'd rather pay a bit more and have soft drinks and local alcohol included to smooth this out as it's practically the only thing which does not run like clockwork. This would also mean you could avoid the credit card swiping at check-in which was the only thing which really felt hotel-like.
So which one is better for you depends on what you want. I would happily return to either place and would feel certain that I would have excellent game viewing and guiding.
For me Londoz has a bit of an edge because I've come to know many of the staff (who will be staying on) and many of the resident predators and I enjoy 'catching up' with them when I visit. But for someone without these ties, I think you'd do well either way.
Cheers,
Julian
Feb 2nd, 2007, 05:26 AM
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Hi Hari,
Between my job at the hospital and my other venture, there's a limit to how long I can be incommunicado without running into some serious problems at work. There are some decisions which can only be made by me, and they tend to be time-sensitive.
Being able to check in to see if there are any crises brewing that need to be dealt with immediately enables me to stay away from the office longer -- otherwise I'd have to head back to England. Whether this is a factor for anyone else probably depends on their job.
Cheers,
Julian
Between my job at the hospital and my other venture, there's a limit to how long I can be incommunicado without running into some serious problems at work. There are some decisions which can only be made by me, and they tend to be time-sensitive.
Being able to check in to see if there are any crises brewing that need to be dealt with immediately enables me to stay away from the office longer -- otherwise I'd have to head back to England. Whether this is a factor for anyone else probably depends on their job.
Cheers,
Julian
Feb 2nd, 2007, 05:45 AM
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Actually, I, too, have changed my tune about Internet access. I have recently increased the frequency of my trips, and have been able to do largely as a result of the ubiquity of high-speed Internet. While I had said I thought it would detract from a safari, it would be a valuable tool for an hour or so each day (I only hope that I'd have the fortitude to resist surfing, and part of my objection was an expected lack of self-control).
Feb 2nd, 2007, 05:51 AM
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Hi Michael,
Glad to hear that I'm not the only one. I'm not really a napper so I don't mind using an hour of my siesta time every day or two, and it was great to be able to check in online for my flight home while I was at Londoz.
Cheers,
Julian
Glad to hear that I'm not the only one. I'm not really a napper so I don't mind using an hour of my siesta time every day or two, and it was great to be able to check in online for my flight home while I was at Londoz.
Cheers,
Julian
Feb 2nd, 2007, 08:23 AM
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Wow, this discussion has my eyes watering. I can understand the convenience of internet and how it allows for a trip extension, in fact unfortunately it will be the only reason that many can take the trip in the first place, but its a huge step in making safari feel like everywhere else in the world. What's next Starbucks kiosk's in the common areas? This may be a weak comparison but sporting events used to be dominated by true fans, now with new deluxe stadiums they have gone corporate and empty seats, half-hearted fans, and people on cell phones durning the event have become the norm. I can see the same potential for a changing safari culture, one where more people go because they can continue to do business, and send email and make phone calls and much like sporting events they will not be as into safari etiquette seeing no reason why they can't be on the phone -- I mean its important to them and they paid all this money. Ready for the gamedrives with a cell phone picture of the lion you are watching being instantly emailed out to the office because its coming soon.
While I can at least understand the desire for internet I cannot comprehend why there is a television at any lodge! I should add I'm one of the biggest T.V. fans in the world, I watch way too much. That makes tears stream down my cheeks and I hope that stops with the S.A. luxury lodges as I will simply avoid them.
While I can at least understand the desire for internet I cannot comprehend why there is a television at any lodge! I should add I'm one of the biggest T.V. fans in the world, I watch way too much. That makes tears stream down my cheeks and I hope that stops with the S.A. luxury lodges as I will simply avoid them.
Feb 2nd, 2007, 08:34 AM
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Frankly, I wouldn't mind if lodges like Wilderness added wireless access (many of us travel with laptops), and I wouldn't be bothered if others were watching a movie, uploading photos or checking emails -- seems harmless.
Feb 2nd, 2007, 09:13 AM
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Pred
I'm with you, I do like to escape. I like the set up at Rattrays, its there if you want it, but if you say no, you would never realize you had TV / internet in the room. I can aslo see that for some people they need to stay in touch. I would find it difficult to relax, but I'm sure plenty of people find it difficult to relax if they are not in touch, so oh well.
I would not be a fan of listening to someone watching a movie in a tented camp where tents are close together like Lagoon, I think then it would impinge on my enjoyment.
I'm with you, I do like to escape. I like the set up at Rattrays, its there if you want it, but if you say no, you would never realize you had TV / internet in the room. I can aslo see that for some people they need to stay in touch. I would find it difficult to relax, but I'm sure plenty of people find it difficult to relax if they are not in touch, so oh well.
I would not be a fan of listening to someone watching a movie in a tented camp where tents are close together like Lagoon, I think then it would impinge on my enjoyment.
Feb 2nd, 2007, 10:04 AM
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Hello,
From what I've seen and heard, Internet access is coming, like it or not. I hope the lodges that bring it in will use a set-up like Rattrays where the facility is there but not in your face, and it's up to you to use it or not.
From what I've seen the lodges have been quite sensitive to the fact that many people come to the bush to escape. Satellite phones and the like are not allowed on game drives, and cannot be used in common areas but only in your own room where no one else can hear you.
Bill, I don't understand the TV thing either, but them I don't even own a TV at home...
Cheers,
Julian
From what I've seen and heard, Internet access is coming, like it or not. I hope the lodges that bring it in will use a set-up like Rattrays where the facility is there but not in your face, and it's up to you to use it or not.
From what I've seen the lodges have been quite sensitive to the fact that many people come to the bush to escape. Satellite phones and the like are not allowed on game drives, and cannot be used in common areas but only in your own room where no one else can hear you.
Bill, I don't understand the TV thing either, but them I don't even own a TV at home...
Cheers,
Julian
Feb 2nd, 2007, 10:36 AM
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I agree that internet and satellite phones confined to your own area is much better than common area usage, and I hope that is where it stays. Based on the cell/black berry manners I witness everyday though I don't have a lot of faith that it will remain that way.
On that note though you may read about the first case of 'safari rage' when someone in my vehicle needs to get back to the camp so they can get 'connected' for their all important email message instead of tracking down another sighting. At that point the lions may want to film what I do to the tourist
and put it on You Tube (which will probably be instantly viewable to guests throughout Africa and create quite a stir).
I have stayed at one lodge with a t.v. in the common area, Madikwe Hills. It was on once for a big cricket match that the Aussie guests were involved in. Other than that it was pushed out of the way. I'm a huge sports fan but I'd rather DVR it and have it on my return. I don't ever want to see a t.v. on again while on safari although it certainly can be a fun way to bond with the guests but I can go to a bar and watch sports during the other 50 weeks of the year.
On that note though you may read about the first case of 'safari rage' when someone in my vehicle needs to get back to the camp so they can get 'connected' for their all important email message instead of tracking down another sighting. At that point the lions may want to film what I do to the tourist
and put it on You Tube (which will probably be instantly viewable to guests throughout Africa and create quite a stir).I have stayed at one lodge with a t.v. in the common area, Madikwe Hills. It was on once for a big cricket match that the Aussie guests were involved in. Other than that it was pushed out of the way. I'm a huge sports fan but I'd rather DVR it and have it on my return. I don't ever want to see a t.v. on again while on safari although it certainly can be a fun way to bond with the guests but I can go to a bar and watch sports during the other 50 weeks of the year.
Feb 2nd, 2007, 03:16 PM
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Bill,
I'm with you all the way on this. I won't bother to repeat anything you've said, except your reference to bad manners in our world of modern communications and 'safari rage'. I am awaiting the day when a guest in my house answers his mobile phone and I finally lose my cool and tell him to leave or I will throw the bloody thing down the toilet.
I would gladly join you, Bill, in hoisting an offending tourist over the side of the vehicle and allowing the lions to do more than just film the event. I'm only half-joking.
When I was still working, I never gave my employer a contact for me (even when I was 2-i-c in my department). My attitude was: bugger you, I'm going on leave and you'll hear from me when I walk back into the office and no sooner. When I go to Africa, the only contact my family has is the number of my agent, and the harder it is for anybody to reach me, the better. I can understand the difficulty self-employed people or those in very important positions (who can't delegate authority) might have, but I don't sympathise with them. It's a lost cause, I know, but pray God all their means of communication don't invade real wilderness areas.
John
I'm with you all the way on this. I won't bother to repeat anything you've said, except your reference to bad manners in our world of modern communications and 'safari rage'. I am awaiting the day when a guest in my house answers his mobile phone and I finally lose my cool and tell him to leave or I will throw the bloody thing down the toilet.
I would gladly join you, Bill, in hoisting an offending tourist over the side of the vehicle and allowing the lions to do more than just film the event. I'm only half-joking.
When I was still working, I never gave my employer a contact for me (even when I was 2-i-c in my department). My attitude was: bugger you, I'm going on leave and you'll hear from me when I walk back into the office and no sooner. When I go to Africa, the only contact my family has is the number of my agent, and the harder it is for anybody to reach me, the better. I can understand the difficulty self-employed people or those in very important positions (who can't delegate authority) might have, but I don't sympathise with them. It's a lost cause, I know, but pray God all their means of communication don't invade real wilderness areas.
John
Feb 2nd, 2007, 05:46 PM
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I have to also agree with Pred and John. The concept of safari is to get away from it all.....going on safari takes time to plan etc etc., likewise, you plan ahead to getaway for whatever time frame......
Being self-employed myself, the first trip was an adjustment (communications free), but, now both at the office and with me.....we have all adjusted well to the concept of no communications. Thank you Botswana!!!! I wouldnt change a thing.
This upcoming trip for me in June is going to be a touch longer than past trips, so, i hv already made everyone aware of my travel plans etc etc.,
I think life goes on.....everyone will get things done whether you are around or not....so, there goes....
And PB: note on the sports stadiums. You need to go to an Eagles game at the Linc....no softies there....
But i'm glad the options for safaris are plenty out there.....those that desire internet and tv can go to certain places and then, there are other options for those who want to just ,"Get away"
Hari
Being self-employed myself, the first trip was an adjustment (communications free), but, now both at the office and with me.....we have all adjusted well to the concept of no communications. Thank you Botswana!!!! I wouldnt change a thing.
This upcoming trip for me in June is going to be a touch longer than past trips, so, i hv already made everyone aware of my travel plans etc etc.,
I think life goes on.....everyone will get things done whether you are around or not....so, there goes....
And PB: note on the sports stadiums. You need to go to an Eagles game at the Linc....no softies there....
But i'm glad the options for safaris are plenty out there.....those that desire internet and tv can go to certain places and then, there are other options for those who want to just ,"Get away"
Hari
Feb 2nd, 2007, 06:05 PM
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John: throw them to the lions was my initial thought but then I realized that the lions would almost surely be destroyed so I decided it would better for me to take care of business and let the lions view for once.
Hari: glad to hear that about the Eagles, of course the famous fans who booed Santa Claus would never lose their edge. In Denver where I have my season tickets its still great at times but it is certainly a notch below where were in old Mile High and instead of knowing everyone around my seats there are new people every week.
Hari: glad to hear that about the Eagles, of course the famous fans who booed Santa Claus would never lose their edge. In Denver where I have my season tickets its still great at times but it is certainly a notch below where were in old Mile High and instead of knowing everyone around my seats there are new people every week.
Feb 3rd, 2007, 03:29 AM
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Hello,
I look forward to the day when I have a staff to delegate to -- unfortunately, that's probably some time in the future with my current venture!
Realistically, even when that happens there will be some clinical decisions I'd ever feel completely comfortable delegating -- my patients have placed their trust in me to make those decisions, and that trust is something very important to me. But that is a personal matter.
On a more philsophical note, while I certainly sympathise with the sentiments of those who would prefer to avoid technology creep, I don't feel that going on an extended safari should be the exclusive domain of retirees. If LIMITED, DISCREET access to email means that more people will visit Africa and fall in love with it, I'm all for it. Preservation of the wild places we all love depends on convincing more people that they are worth preserving, and the best way to do that is for them to experience them for themselves.
As I see it, the key managing technology access to be limited and discreet so it does not impinge on the experience of others. The Rattrays model isn't a bad one - you can take it or leave it, and no one else in camp will ever know if you're using the Internet or not. And there should be a clear understanding that the game drive will not be held up so you can finish checking your email, and that cell and satellite phones must stay in your room.
Mind you, I am not in favour of TVs or DVD players in rooms, or God forbid Playstations. There's no need for these things when the greatest show on earth is taking place right outside your door. But I don't see any harm in discreet Internet access.
Yes, I'm sure there will be some rude gits (there always are) who will bring their phones on drives, but I don't think that their behaviour should dictate whether the vast majority of polite people should have access to technology. In a sense the phone battle is already lost as anyone with an Iridium phone can make calls from the Delta.
I have heard of at least one incident involving an obnoxious guest who took a satellite phone to a camp in the Delta and spent half his time on the phone to his secretary in New York. He even took it on a game drive and made a call. You'll be pleased to know that both management and fellow guests laid down the law and told him in no uncertain terms that the phone was to stay in his room or he would not be going on any more drives. He was also told that if it he used it in the public areas or disturbed anyone else with his phone conversations he would get a one-way ticket back to Maun. The phone stayed in his room and not a peep was heard for the rest of his stay.
Personally, I suspect that some camps wil declare themselves 'tech-free zones' to appeal to those who would rather experience a tech-free safari. I wouldn't be surprised if Kwando did this, though given that you can already receive cell phone signal in their camps it may be a lost cause.
Just my .02 pence...
Cheers,
Julian
I look forward to the day when I have a staff to delegate to -- unfortunately, that's probably some time in the future with my current venture!
Realistically, even when that happens there will be some clinical decisions I'd ever feel completely comfortable delegating -- my patients have placed their trust in me to make those decisions, and that trust is something very important to me. But that is a personal matter.
On a more philsophical note, while I certainly sympathise with the sentiments of those who would prefer to avoid technology creep, I don't feel that going on an extended safari should be the exclusive domain of retirees. If LIMITED, DISCREET access to email means that more people will visit Africa and fall in love with it, I'm all for it. Preservation of the wild places we all love depends on convincing more people that they are worth preserving, and the best way to do that is for them to experience them for themselves.
As I see it, the key managing technology access to be limited and discreet so it does not impinge on the experience of others. The Rattrays model isn't a bad one - you can take it or leave it, and no one else in camp will ever know if you're using the Internet or not. And there should be a clear understanding that the game drive will not be held up so you can finish checking your email, and that cell and satellite phones must stay in your room.
Mind you, I am not in favour of TVs or DVD players in rooms, or God forbid Playstations. There's no need for these things when the greatest show on earth is taking place right outside your door. But I don't see any harm in discreet Internet access.
Yes, I'm sure there will be some rude gits (there always are) who will bring their phones on drives, but I don't think that their behaviour should dictate whether the vast majority of polite people should have access to technology. In a sense the phone battle is already lost as anyone with an Iridium phone can make calls from the Delta.
I have heard of at least one incident involving an obnoxious guest who took a satellite phone to a camp in the Delta and spent half his time on the phone to his secretary in New York. He even took it on a game drive and made a call. You'll be pleased to know that both management and fellow guests laid down the law and told him in no uncertain terms that the phone was to stay in his room or he would not be going on any more drives. He was also told that if it he used it in the public areas or disturbed anyone else with his phone conversations he would get a one-way ticket back to Maun. The phone stayed in his room and not a peep was heard for the rest of his stay.
Personally, I suspect that some camps wil declare themselves 'tech-free zones' to appeal to those who would rather experience a tech-free safari. I wouldn't be surprised if Kwando did this, though given that you can already receive cell phone signal in their camps it may be a lost cause.
Just my .02 pence...
Cheers,
Julian
Feb 3rd, 2007, 04:21 AM
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Technology changes to allow us to stay in touch and maybe this increases the expectation and perception we should be available 24/7 from anywhere in the world...but the reality is virtually no one is indispensible and decisions can be made by responsible associates. If that is not the case, don't go, and leave one of the last bastions of nature as it has always been. Plenty of non retirees manage to place competent people in positions of responsibility.
The issue however may really be with the lodges that are charging rediculously high prices (IMHO) and their well-heeled guests, in many cases, feel they must stay in contact so to vie for the almighty dollar, euro, pound (insert your local currency here), competes and the competiton does not always lead to a better overall product just one that is closer to the life left behind.
Regards,
Eric
The issue however may really be with the lodges that are charging rediculously high prices (IMHO) and their well-heeled guests, in many cases, feel they must stay in contact so to vie for the almighty dollar, euro, pound (insert your local currency here), competes and the competiton does not always lead to a better overall product just one that is closer to the life left behind.
Regards,
Eric
Feb 3rd, 2007, 04:27 AM
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Julian,
I'm not convinced that more people herded out on safari is going to promote conservation. I think, the point is to conserve what is already there...
You final note on Kwando remaining "tech-free"...i certainly hope so. The cell phone coverage is sparse and only from one tent at one camp, that is a weak signal spilling over from the caprivi strip (accoriding to some recent visits by fodorites)...it's an accidental occurance.......so, if they do declare themselves "tech-free" in your terms...i dont think it is a lost cause.
Only retirees going on an extented safari? I dont know about that.....it takes planning, not just the trip, but the absence.....etc etc.,
Hari
I'm not convinced that more people herded out on safari is going to promote conservation. I think, the point is to conserve what is already there...
You final note on Kwando remaining "tech-free"...i certainly hope so. The cell phone coverage is sparse and only from one tent at one camp, that is a weak signal spilling over from the caprivi strip (accoriding to some recent visits by fodorites)...it's an accidental occurance.......so, if they do declare themselves "tech-free" in your terms...i dont think it is a lost cause.
Only retirees going on an extented safari? I dont know about that.....it takes planning, not just the trip, but the absence.....etc etc.,
Hari
