Kavey

There's a different between looking away completely (which I don't advocate; you'll notice I have posted on the ban agents thread) and discussing the issue as adults. Mocking someone's photography (or even their own comments about their photography) is hardly furthering that debate or contributing to anything; it's little more than playground bullying of the "look that kid's down on the ground, let's kick him further" variety.

Shumba

hmmm, my post was removed........

anyway, like I originally said, Kavey, I agree that it is rather childish. I feel someone that can mock identfable figures, like spa girl and other photographers, puts themself's on a pedalstal though....

Everyone knows that it is an old favourite to mock when he all mighty has fallen, human nature i guess.

I personally feel that with Julain and Roccos blatant self-promotion, people just got rather sick and tired of them.I feel this is just a culmination of it all. There aer some excellent photographers on this boards, who are rather humble in regards to their work. Maybe a less arrogant attitude would not have got so many backs up.

Kavey

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting for a moment that there's no validity in the strong feelings you're talking about. I just think it's beneath us to sink to this level.

Surely the best way to avoid there being nasty cr*p on the board is not to contribute nasty cr*p to the board?

Roccco

In the interest of disclosure, Kavey, is there any truth in that you were considering accompanying Julian on an educational last year? Disclosure seems to be a hot button on the forum these days.

atravelynn

This all started over a strawberry with a gooseberry on the side.

divewop

Why doesn't everyone just let this whole thing go?!

And who cares who goes to Africa with whom? It's not anyone's business except the people going on the trip.

Geez, enough already with the high school antics!

<b>Step away from the thread!</b>

Roccco

My point was that more than just those in the industry have an agenda.

nyama

Rocco -- this is ridiculous. We all have some kind of 'agenda'. Most of us here know that Kavey knows Julian, but we also know that she's always trying to be fair. I remember a time not long ago when she also had some fair words for you, http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35003628

Roccco

I don't think it is ridiculous. I do think it is only fair to bring up the subject when she has also railed against agents who used the forum to allegedly self-promote, when she, herself, was set to benefit by way of an educational visit, whether or not it ever took place. I just see a lot of hypocrisy on the board, whether it is crusading against luxury lodges even while booked into one of the newest and most luxurious of them all or whether it is speaking out against agents self-promoting on the board, when the same person speaking was set to benefit by way of a visit that would have cost perhaps 25% of what would normally be paid. It is the self-righteous that are usually suspect in my mind.

Self Righteousness to the &quot;t&quot;

&gt;&gt;&gt;I'm sure it's meant to be funny and amusing but... I'm seriously surprised at some of you that are taking part.&lt;&lt;&lt;

napamatt

Wow - thats a serious amount of cojones.

thit_cho

I, for one, really like the Timeless Africa site -- its full of excellent information, but better yet, it shows a lot of candid, real photos -- not the perfect shots posted on the lodges' own websites.

And with respect to luxury -- its a fact of life, not only in Africa, but worldwide, and we can all choose to patronize lodges with as much, or as little, &quot;luxury&quot; as we require (and I put &quot;luxury&quot; in quotes because we all have different defintions of what's a necessity and what's a luxury).

Furthermore, if anyone wants to take me on a educational trip, sign me up -- I'd take the discount, and I'm not sure I'd feel compelled to advertise or disclose that to any of you.

Michael

Roccco

Michael,

Where you wanna go?

atravelynn

I can use some educating myself. Where do I sign up?

Nyamera

I too need some education!

Nyamera

The berry is a Cape gooseberry (Physalis peruviana) and it’s completely different from a European gooseberry (Ribes uva-crispa).

atravelynn

Thanks Nyamera, but that was not the kind of education I was seeking!

nyama

napamatt, thanks for the new word.

HariS

As a full-fare paying client at Rattray's or any other safari lodge/camp in Africa for that matter, i/we don't need anybody's approvals to make any booking with regards to our/ my choice.

Roccco

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
de·fen·sive /dɪˈfɛnsɪv/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[di-fen-siv] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective

5. excessively concerned with guarding against the real or imagined threat of criticism, injury to one's ego, or exposure of one's shortcomings.


I do understand the choice of Ratray's, however, as it does look like an incredible and very exclusive camp. Rooms remind me somewhat of Mateya, and it also shares similarities with Mateya in that it limits 4 guests per vehicle and has an age limit of 16 years old.

Formerly, I did not appreciate the fact that Ratray's featured golf carts until I stayed at Sabi Sabi Earth Lodge last year and enjoyed being whisked around in a golf cart rather than using the legs that God gave me.

If all that is not enough to justify the choice of Ratray's then I am sure it was the separate his &amp; her bathrooms, private heated? plunge pool, e-mail/internet facilities and the satellite television in every suite that was just too hard to resist. Game drive or reality television, game drive or CNN, game drive or ESPN...oh, the agony. Exclusivity in its purest form...I am so there next time I am in the Sabi Sand.

thit_cho

Getting boring -- I'm up early because I'm flying down to Florida for the weekend to visit the Everglades, which certainly qualifies as a unique environment. While you guys are mired in a petty, and fruitless, debate, I'll be canoeing with alligators.