PerpetualStudent

Hello! I've been lurking for a week or so; thank you for all your informative postings.

My 30-something brother and I will be traveling with our 60-something parents in June/July 2007. We will be in Livingstone for about 7 nights (conference). Then to Zambia for 7-8 nights - S. Luangwa and maybe Lower Zambezi. We will finish off with 4 nights in Botswana, hopefully. Which brings me to the question... where to stay in Botswana for these nights?

Okavango seems to be a must - but do we do all 4 nights here, or 2 each in this area and Linyati?

I also get the feeling we need to include both land and water activities in the Delta - isn't that part of the point of being there? But we aren't birders by any means. Also, maybe we can get the water stuff out of our systems in Zambia? We are first time safari-goers (but frequent travelers – though maybe not compared to some of you in here ) who don't want to be staying at the Ritz, but the mom would like to have an attached bathroom, so no mobile camps for us.

Right now I'm liking the sound of Chitabe Trails (for the watering hole close by and the hide you can sleep in!!), but no water activities there. I've read here other all-around good camps are Tubu, Kwara, Chitabe, Little Vumburu, Kwetsani.... Savuti up at Linyati sounds good too b/c of that elephant hide.

Any suggestions are welcome... pricing info also appreciated. Thanks!

afrigalah

I won't recommend any Botswana camps in particular, others will do that. I suggest only that you add the Kwando Lagoon and Lebala (kwando.com) and Selinda (linyanti.com) camps to the list of those you are considering. They are independent of the major operators in Botswana, and they are excellent destinations. What I will strongly recommend is that you do not split the four nights between the delta and the Linyanti. Do not split them even between two camps in one region. Spend all four at one camp, which gives you three full days (and usually, two half days) to better explore and appreciate a place.

There are water experiences and there are water experiences: you'll get one or two kinds in Zambia (rocco is one of those to advise you there); another at Kwando Lagoon (powered river cruise); and the mekoro experience in the delta is different again. If you fancy the idea of being poled along narrow channels in 'dugout' (fibreglass) canoes, then choose a delta camp which gives you a combination of land and mekoro activities (Xigera is one which I have experienced). Wildlife viewing on the water can be a bit limited though.

You will get some pictorial idea of what is on offer at both delta and Linyanti camps on my website www.afrigalah.com, as well as the operator websites which people will give you in this thread.

You'll find the choices are almost bewildering. Good luck.

John

PerpetualStudent

... I should add that we will be in Botswana early July, and we'd love to learn a lot from our guide. Smaller, more personal camps are appealing. Right now I am excited about seeing the more obvious type of wildlife - elephants, cats, hippos, but who knows what we will be interested in once we learn a bit about other creatures... we are newbies, after all.

PerpetualStudent

Thanks John; I didn't see your post before I tacked on that additional comment... Good to hear you rec doing 4 nights in one place; that is how I was leaning and was hoping to hear. I'll check out the sites you mention tomorrow; time to rip myself away from this trip research!

- Sarah

santharamhari

Hi! I concur with John and his post. 4 nights for Botswana is way too short.....by trying to fit everything into a very short time, doesnt allow you to enjoy the full potential of any area. Also, internal transfers are expensive so it's logical to make the most of your time without too much hopping around.

12 nights between South Luangwa, LZ and Botswana is too much hopping around IMO. You are better off just doing Zambia or just Botswana for the time frame.....

Hari

santharamhari

I should add, just do a search here and you should find my trip report from my visit to Kwando last month.....

Hari

jweis

Hello long-time student -

I recommend that you make an inquiry with your agent and see what's available in Bots for those 4 nights before you start assuming that you can pick and choose.

Trust me, space is becoming limited already for that time frame, especially with 4 people. Do not delay even one more day.

2 nights/2 nights would actually be my suggestion if you only have 4 days in Bots. Definitely visit a camp in the Delta with some water activities (mekoro is a must and Little Vumbura would be my choice) and then spend 2 nights in the Linyanti or Selinda. Savuti is my choice there.

Like I said, contact your agent asap!

Enjoy.
James

afrigalah

Sarah,

"Smaller, more personal camps are appealing."

That compels me to modify what I said about not recommending any particular camp. Unfortunately, it doesn't offer a water experience, but the smallest and most beautifully intimate camp I can immediately bring to mind is Zibalianja (little sister to Selinda camp). It has only three tents. I've been there twice, and it is a delightful camp. I think Hari is going there next June. My experience of delta camps is out of date, so maybe somebody else can tell you of a delta camp which is as small and which offers the same excellent level of game viewing as well as the mekoro experience (which Zib can't). In the same concession as Zib is Motswiri, which also has only three tents and is close to the delta panhandle, but it hasn't proved itself yet. It was converted from a hunting camp to a photographic safari camp less than two years ago, and needs more time.

I have to agree with James about the need for haste. There is great demand for places at many of the best camps, and the longer you leave it, the more you risk being forced to split your time between camps (and possibly not the best choices)...a great pity if you really do favour the idea of more in-depth stays over skimming the surface.

John

santharamhari

Hi,

Yep...i'm planning a long stay in the Linyanti for next June, like John mentioned. A combination of Lebala and Zibalianja.....

Lebala, because it is my absolute favourite camp in all of Africa and Zib next door, as i've heard lots of great reviews about it (including a very recent trip report from August from a fellow-fodorite). I also think such a wonderful combination gives me a great chance to see the Selinda pack of wild dog (ofcourse, chances are that i could easily miss them), but hey a chance is a chance......

Hari

jasher

Hello,

Four days in Botswana is a difficult one -- personally I'd recommend shortening your time in Zambia to get at least 6 days in Botswana. That way you could spend 3 days in the Linyanti and 3 days in the Delta, which would be ideal -- it would be a shame to pass up either region as they both offer something very different.

In the Delta, I'd second James's recommendation of Little Vumbura -- this is a wonderful little camp with only six tents, and it offers a full range of water and land activities. I've stayed there and it's one of my favourite camps.

http://www.wilderness-safaris.com/ca...mp;method=menu

Other good mixed land and water options are Kwetsani and Kwara:

http://www.wilderness-safaris.com/ca...mp;method=menu

http://www.kwando.com/content/view/4/5/

In the Linyanti, you have a number of good choices. For a small, personal camp I'd recommend Savuti or Zib.

http://www.wilderness-safaris.com/ca...mp;method=menu

http://www.wilderness-safaris.com/ca...mp;method=menu

(This is the same Zib mentioned by John).

I stayed at Savuti on my last trip and you can read about it in my trip report. My trip took place right around the time you will be travelling (though you should note that the weather was very odd this year).

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34844345

Lebala and Lagoon have also received good reviews from people on this board.

http://www.kwando.com

For first-hand trip reports, take a look at the Southern Africa Trip Report Index:

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34858382

Pictures of many of the camps can be seen in the Safari Photo Album:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jasher/sets/

As James mentioned, availability is already getting very tight in Botswana for the time of year you want to travel, particularly for a group your size -- in the end, availability may be the determining factor in where you end up staying.

Cheers,
Julian

PerpetualStudent

Wow, thanks all for the input. I promise to write a trip report when we return! We are contacting agents now; thanks for the tip re: urgency. I'm adding your suggestions to our list... Zib, Kwando Lagoon, Lebala, Savuti, etc... (and have been reading the incredible trip reports).

For the Zambia portion, we are cutting out Lower Zambezi, so we will just do S. Luangwa.

I would love to add 2 more days to the Botswana portion of the trip and hit both the delta and Linyati, but a bit worried that will break the budget completely. Anyone have an idea of what 6 days in S. Luangwa and 6 days in Botswana (delta/Linyati) would look like, price-wise?

We've gotten one quote for $32,000 for 4 people - 3 nights at Tafika in S. Luangwa, 3 nights in L. Zambezi (Sausage Tree or Chiawa), 2 nights in Chitabe, 2 nights in Savuti. That includes the air transfers - we will lose some of those thankfully. So our itinerary has changed since this quote, but we're wondering if they are reasonably priced or no.

Another quote: 8 days in Botswana at $1,000 per person per night, land only.

Thank you again in advance!!
- Sarah

Roccco

Perpetual Student,

I wouldn't give up on Lower Zambezi just yet. It is a beautiful park and there are some fantastic properties such as Chiawa, Chongwe River Camp and more.

Also, Star of Africa offers some nice packages that combine Victoria Falls, Lower Zambezi and South Luangwa, including all air & road transfers.

Take a look at this package. This is a great package but does improve with an extra night or two added to Puku Ridge at the end:

http://www.starofafrica.com/tours/underthestars.htm

While it is already a very nicely priced package, a preferred agent of Star Of Africa may be able to discount it a bit more.

For Botswana, Sanctuary Lodges does offer shoulder season pricing all the way until June 30th.

So, you could potentially visit Chiefs Camp and Baines Camp or Stanley Camp at the end of June and then proceed to Victoria Falls, Lower Zambezi and finish up in South Luangwa. This, I believe, would offer a fantastic safari experience.

Alternately, choose between Chiefs Camp or Baines Camp and add a Linyanti area camp and then proceed to Zambia.

Good luck.

Roccco

PS,

Here is a vote for an all-Zambia safari. Your itinerary would be:

5 night Chiawa/Old Mondoro package (3 nights Chiawa, 2 nights Old MOndoro)

5 nights at Luangwa River Lodge

Accomodations only = $5155

Your air starting in Livingstone and ending in Lusaka would add about $995 per person.

Total price - $6150 per person sharing for high season 10 night Zambian safari.

www.luangwariverlodge.com
www.chiawa.com

Roccco

(These are rack rates I am quoting, nothing that is not available to anybody making a direct enquiry from the lodges)

jasher

Hello,

Your second quote (8 days in Botswana for $1,000 per person per day, land only) is rather high -- you could get nine days for about $500 less.

Is there any way you can move Botswana to the beginning of your trip? If you can travel before June 15, you would qualify for shoulder season pricing at Selinda, Zib, Savuti, and LV, and the cost of a nine-day trip would drop to less than $6,000.

Cheers,
Julian

PerpetualStudent

Have I said thank you enough? This is so helpful!
Ok so now our itinerary is turned completely upside down, but I think we are getting closer. Thank you Roccco and Julian for the info re: discount dates and pricing... I didn't realize we were so close. That allows us some more possibilities – moving Botswana before the conference… What do you think of this plan:

- 3 nights in Chiefs Camp (reduced rate, yay)
- 3 nights in a Linyati camp (Lebala or Zib)
- The 7ish nights in Livingstone - conference
- 3 nights in Lower Zambezi (Chiawa or Sausage Tree)
- 3 nights in S. Luangwa (Luangwa River Lodge, Tena Tena, or ...)

Would you choose Chiefs over Chitabe Trails or Kwara, if there wasn’t a price difference? Is there a price difference? At this time, Chiefs will be about $530/pppn. I know Chiefs and Kwara have water activities, and I hear I’ll want to get off the land eventually, but the overnight hide at Chitabe really seems to be a draw. All three seem to get good reviews here.

We contacted one agent who basically said don’t worry the camps aren’t filling up…?? I’m going to believe you guys over that bit of info. Waiting to hear back from others; we are having a hard time learning about pricing of individual camps, and availability. I’m the type that likes to look at all available info, but it is so difficult to do with this Africa trip! It is so different from the wandering around other countries (with lots of resources but no set agenda) kind of travel I am used to.

Hari, maybe we will cross paths in June! Your reports have been so helpful. Lebala sounds great. I guess I need to think of this as my *first* Africa trip; more to come.

Roccco

PS,

I will tell you what I tell my clients...do NOT wait too long to book Chiawa as it does fill up early. Although it is one of the most expensive properties in Zambia, it is for very good reason and all of my clients have come home raving about their Chiawa experience.

For South Luangwa, at the time of year you are going, Luangwa River Lodge would be a good choice as it is quite central and will allow you to explore both the northern part of the park as well as the Chichele part of the park. I think late June/early July may be a little early for the optimal experience at the northern camps in South Luangwa (Tafika, Kaingo, Nsefu, Tena Tena).

If not Luangwa River Lodge, then I would go with Puku Ridge for the time of year you are visiting. Four nights at Puku Ridge does earn you a small discount of 5% from Star Of Africa.

I would definitely choose Chiawa over Sausage Tree Camp. If not Chiawa then I would go with Chongwe River Camp.

www.chongwe-river.com

Good luck.

jasher

Hello,

The six days in Botswana split between the Delta and the Linyanti looks good.

Note that both Chitabe and Chief's are essentially land-only camps -- Chief's may offer water activties depending on flood levels, but there's no guarantee. If you definitely want both land and water activivities, I'd recommend going with LV or one of the other mixed activity camps.

Both Chitabe Trails and Chief's will offer very good game-viewing at that time of year. Chitabe offers walks and the option of a sleep-out in a hide, which I did on my last trip and found very enjoyable.

Either Lebala or Zib should be a great Linyanti option.

Cheers,
Julian

afrigalah

Sarah,

Congratulations on a very good-looking itinerary. 3 + 3 is far superior to 2 + 2 for the delta/Linyanti experience, and you won't be sorry you've chosen Lebala or Zib for the latter. Actually, it's a pity you can't do both, as they are different enough to justify that and close enough to do an enthralling land transfer. If some of us enthusiasts here had our way, your Botswana/Zambia odyssey would last..oh...a couple of months

John

santharamhari

Sarah,

Your trip sounds super!!! Yes, you have some fabulous camps for your visit. I concur with John, that it is easy to spend two months in Africa....unfortunately we all have to get back to "reality" sooner.

Glad you liked my trip report. Yeah, maybe we cross paths.....what are your dates for the Linyanti area?

Chief's island is always great location wise for all the big game viewing.

Your Zambia camps, sound very good also. I've read super reports from all vistors to any of those camps!!!

Hopefully, you'll get a quick soak of the atmosphere during this trip, and return next year for a longer stay at locations that you find intriguing...

Hari