Hastobe_Katt

www.theisraelproject.org website is managed by Jennifer Laszlo Mizrahi who is known to be sympathetic to Israel. Her publicised aims are to improve the profile of Israel and to engender support for Israel in the States - so I assume you are happy with her statistics.

The source for the Palestinian deaths is Amnesty International: http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/in...15/015/2009/en

Hastobe_Katt

I won't post to this again. The Green Olive Tours are objective and not tied to any political persuasion. I would encourage any visitor to Israel to try to see both sides - and to explore the West Bank and meet it's people.

Elkaz

lol, The websites you list are known to be sympathetic to the Palestinians. Amnesty International has also been called to task more than once for not being a fair organization. NGOs on the West Bank--far from fair.

Green Olive tours--go to their website--anyone and read their mission. They ADMIT what they are presenting!

The number of deaths in Operation Cast Lead is contested! Children?--well the Palestinians are well known for using children as Human Shields. When rockets are fired from school yards you expect Israelis to sit back and do nothing!--sorry, AND yes the few incidents of misconduct by Israelis resulted in punishment for the soldiers involved.

Photos of the Wall--the same sections over and over again--prove what, I know, lots of people want to take the same picture. How about googling fence Hey, even Wikipedia, not a known supporter of Israel indicates that it is 90% FENCE and 10 % WAll

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier

Sharon_travels

Hastobe - it seems that you too have an axe to grind and have made your own decisions, perhaps without looking at the whole picture. You say you work for an NGO in the West Bank then perhaps you too have bought into the Palestinian propaganda machine without really seeing the facts.

1. The separation wall has saved countless lives by making it much more difficult for suicide bombers and other terrorists to enter Israeli cities and blow up civilians who were just trying to go about their daily lives.

2. The separation wall is not a huge concrete monstrosity for its entire length - for much of its length it is just a chain link fence - and yes it has barbed wire on top as it is meant to keep people from climbing over.

3. The Arab population in Israel has made no real efforts to achieve peace. They have been slaughtering innocent civilians way before there was a State of Israel - so Israel's existence is not what is bothering them. If you don't know what I mean please look up the Hebron Massacre of 1929.

4. The Palestinians are famous for manipulating statistics and distorting numbers - so please don't quote their figures for casualties in Cast Lead, or anything else - they are the ones who place rocket launchers in kindergartens, use ambulances to transport munitions and bomb schools, school buses, etc. The deal is that they do it on purpose, when Israel misfires they admit it was an accident, they apologize, they investigate and punish those responsible. When was the last time you heard the Palestinians apologize for killing a child???

5.I can continue for quite a while poking holes in the little bit that you said. It is interesting that you made a few statements and did not bother to address anything that other posters said in response. You do not address the issues, just drop a few well chosen phrases. Your sources of information are woefully unbalanced.

So - if this is what you want to believe - go right ahead - but it is not the truth, it is not balanced and you are being just as close-minded as the opinions you believe others have.

I know of no country in the world that has taken so many steps to safe-guard the rights and lives of those people who only wish it harm. It is unreasonable for you, or anyone else, to expect Israel to commit suicide.

Hastobe_Katt

All I have suggested on here is that visitors to Israel visit the West Bank for themselves and make up their own minds. To that end, I have posted details of a tour company that will organise such a visit. The tour company has a 5* rating on Tripadvisor, is described as 'Highly Recommended' in the latest Lonely Planet Guide and references from previous visitors consistently describe the tours as objective and balanced.

In return I have received hostile and nasty responses from some of the Israelis on this forum who continue to foment hate and righteous indignation.

Like Ariel Sharon, Israel has eyes wide open but it cannot see.

Sharon_travels

First of all - why do you say we are Israelis? I, for one, am American born, US citizen and live in the US.

Yes, you recommended a tour company - all we did was comment on the content of this company's tours which advertises itself as having an agenda - it is only fair that people spending their hard earned money on a tour know if the tour is trying to present a specific agenda.

As to eyes wide open and can't see - I suggest you take the blinders off your eyes and see what is really going on around you - you may be surprised that all is not as you had imagined it.

Elkaz

Hold on.
First of all, I may travel a lot to Israel but my passport says American! ( see what happens when you assume). I do find it interesting that even your posts about what happened on this thread is "revisionist"

a. you mentioned Green Olive tours and Oreet said it is a political tour company. ( something something someone has a right to know--despite its starts on Trip Advisor whose rating system has been called into account ( see their Help Us Make Trip Advisor Better Forum)

b. YOU responded to Oreet with a post about how Israeli tour companies don't present accurate pictures.

c. I responded to you questioning some of your assertions ( apparently when someone questions "your facts" that is hostile and nasty"

d. there was a then a back and forth in which I was insulted--told I believe propaganda ( and you don't ???) and told I was demonstrating "hatred" --an explanation of which you never gave. Our back and forth was basically showing two sides of a story. I am willing to write that. I am willing to acknowledge there is an opposite side and that there are people ( supported by some NGOs who actually believe that opposite side) I am not name calling, I am not insulting and I am not denying a different opinion. However, you can't say the same.

e. Funny that you insult Ariel Sharon ( with a well known jibe) He is the Prime Minister who probably gave away more of Israel than anyone else. He gave away most of Hebron, he gave away Gaza ( and Israel received terror in return) Bottom line, you have proved you read the literature, now start thinking for yourself. ( and yes, I finally wrote my first and only jibe against you!_

olga13

You don't have much time for your trip, so I wouldn't advise you to go north, the ride will take you half a day each direction.
If you are visiting Jerusalem you can also go to Masada and the Dead sea for a day trip, if you have an hour or two left you should visit Ein Gedi as well (check out a post about Ein Gedi here http://www.facebook.com/VoteDeadSea).

alan43

Ein Gedi is a really nice place to visit. We stayed there overnight a couple of years ago. Visited Masada the next day. Had a great time. Why do you allow such hate from Hastobe Katt, he could take his politics and shove it.

travelino

Thanks for the input. We decided to stay three nights in Jerusalem (Thursday, Friday, Saturday), and two nights in Tel Aviv (Sunday and Monday). While in Jerusalem, we plan to do a day trip to Masada/Ein Gedi. Questions on the day trip:

1. To maximize sightseeing in Jerusalem, should we go to Masada on Friday or Saturday?

2. Should we rent a car or go with a bus tour? Price is equivalent. For the car we would have to rent it from Friday to Sunday, and park it somewhere in Jerusalem for two nights. Is this feasible? Is it advisable to drive on Saturday?

Thanks again.

travelino

I'm continuing this on a new thread, please post there.
http://www.fodors.com/community/afri...-jerusalem.cfm