Coercion, Intimidation, Beating, Displacement
Jul 6th, 2008, 04:43 AM
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Coercion, Intimidation, Beating, Displacement
here's what's been going on in Zimbabwe:
http://tinyurl.com/66zujj
I am still planning on going there on our trip, but I hate to think that travel there gives any legitimacy to that man's government. And, if it plain and simple gets too dangerous for us we may reroute.
http://tinyurl.com/66zujj
I am still planning on going there on our trip, but I hate to think that travel there gives any legitimacy to that man's government. And, if it plain and simple gets too dangerous for us we may reroute.
Jul 6th, 2008, 05:48 AM
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Momliz - Have the read the Peter Gordin book ? "When a crocodile eats the sun" - suggest giving it a read. Coercion, intimidation etc etc., has been going on for quite a few years already.
Jul 6th, 2008, 09:56 AM
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Jul 6th, 2008, 10:13 AM
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but people of zim struggle and most are starving. therefore as long as there is no civil war i won't give up our panned trip for nov 08.
peter godwin's book "a white boy in africa" is also excellent. some info on living a very priviledged life while the white colonists were ruling the country.
for the sake of the people of zim - keep focused on to your trip unless it's getting dangerous.
div
peter godwin's book "a white boy in africa" is also excellent. some info on living a very priviledged life while the white colonists were ruling the country.
for the sake of the people of zim - keep focused on to your trip unless it's getting dangerous.
div
Jul 6th, 2008, 10:15 AM
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Here is a link to a very comprehensive daily update of news from and about Zimbabwe, from a wide range of sources:
http://www.zimbabwesituation.com/
http://www.zimbabwesituation.com/
Jul 7th, 2008, 11:24 AM
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divine,
You and I seem to have very different definitions of dangerous. I prefer not to take what I consider to be the all too real chance of being there when they decide that tourists would suddenly make good targets - or are perhaps journalists in disguise - or civil war does finally break out.
You may, of course, do as you please, I look forward to hearing your first hand report after your November trip.
Bob
You and I seem to have very different definitions of dangerous. I prefer not to take what I consider to be the all too real chance of being there when they decide that tourists would suddenly make good targets - or are perhaps journalists in disguise - or civil war does finally break out.
You may, of course, do as you please, I look forward to hearing your first hand report after your November trip.
Bob
Jul 7th, 2008, 12:28 PM
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the parks, the camps and the country is very safe for Americans..the average person in Zimbabwe loves Americans...do not hang out in the big cities, but the tourist industy is desperate for our US dollars, and it is the local people we are helping when we go...i have been many times and am going back in August for three weeks...my friends who live there say it is fine, and my travel agent, Alison Nolting from African Adventure is there right now....they are much kinder, friendlier and more polite than any guide I have ever met in Kenya...I worry more in Kenya taking a cab form the airport to the city...I have never met one guide/local/policeman in Zim that was anything but fabulous to Americans or any tourists....they have their own issues, and it is a very sad state of affairs, but they do not want to harm tourists.....they need our support and $$$ are the best way to help---great deals now, not too many tourists, great wild life--the fact that the parks and rangers still work so well is amazing, when their money is so worthless---GO!! spend Money! tip well!!!
Jul 7th, 2008, 12:47 PM
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@ kata 1
thx a lot for supporting!
do make a decision right now would be grossly negligent in view to the people of zim.
i look forward to our trip and i am pretty positive there won't be a civil war spreading across the country.
and IF - yes then we have to reconsider our plan.
so no need for us to worry at all!
div
thx a lot for supporting!
do make a decision right now would be grossly negligent in view to the people of zim.
i look forward to our trip and i am pretty positive there won't be a civil war spreading across the country.
and IF - yes then we have to reconsider our plan.
so no need for us to worry at all!
div
Jul 7th, 2008, 07:30 PM
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It is Mugabe that is the problem, not the folks that we, as tourists will run across in our travels. These are the people that I would like to support, so we have not canceled our stay at Ilala Lodge.
But, Bob is nuts, so who knows what he will do - kill the golden egg that feeds him?
But, Bob is nuts, so who knows what he will do - kill the golden egg that feeds him?
Jul 8th, 2008, 06:44 AM
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Momliz,
So nice to be told I'm "nuts" for expressing my opinion. Maybe I'm just looking at it from a different perspective. I know aid workers who are being harrassed and threatened for nothing more than trying to help the people in Zimbabwe. I never said that Mugabe, with his army, "war veterans" and other followers weren't the problem and that the majority of people were victims. I do understand your point about helping the victims in Zimbabwe - they certainly need our help - but as you pointed out in the beginning of this thread, I would feel that I was giving legitimacy to his government by going there as a tourist. The only way I'd enter the country at the current time would be as some type of an aid worker and being that I'm not in a position to do that, my wife and I give money to and organization that does.
Sorry if this got a little too political but that does seem to be the whole thrust of this thread anyway.
Bob
So nice to be told I'm "nuts" for expressing my opinion. Maybe I'm just looking at it from a different perspective. I know aid workers who are being harrassed and threatened for nothing more than trying to help the people in Zimbabwe. I never said that Mugabe, with his army, "war veterans" and other followers weren't the problem and that the majority of people were victims. I do understand your point about helping the victims in Zimbabwe - they certainly need our help - but as you pointed out in the beginning of this thread, I would feel that I was giving legitimacy to his government by going there as a tourist. The only way I'd enter the country at the current time would be as some type of an aid worker and being that I'm not in a position to do that, my wife and I give money to and organization that does.
Sorry if this got a little too political but that does seem to be the whole thrust of this thread anyway.
Bob
Jul 8th, 2008, 07:12 AM
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Bob, it seems clear that Momliz was calling Bob Mugabe nuts and not you.
Certainly there are two different views on the best way to approach this problem but I imagine we all agree that Mugabe is indeed nuts.
Certainly there are two different views on the best way to approach this problem but I imagine we all agree that Mugabe is indeed nuts.
Jul 8th, 2008, 08:14 AM
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Bob, absolutely, I was referring to Robert (Bob) Mugabe, NOT you. I do apologize for my clumsy writing!
And, yes, this thread is political, not what this travel oriented forum is all about, but I did want to post the link to the Post article for those who might want to read it.
And, yes, this thread is political, not what this travel oriented forum is all about, but I did want to post the link to the Post article for those who might want to read it.
Jul 8th, 2008, 09:28 AM
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Momliz,
Thanks for the clarification, sorry if I got a little sensitive there but I've been jumped on about my feelings about Zimbabwe elsewhere. I agree that Mugabe is crazy - and that's being generous. As for how people support his victims, everyone has to respond in a way that they're comfortable with, but they do need the world's support.
Bob
Thanks for the clarification, sorry if I got a little sensitive there but I've been jumped on about my feelings about Zimbabwe elsewhere. I agree that Mugabe is crazy - and that's being generous. As for how people support his victims, everyone has to respond in a way that they're comfortable with, but they do need the world's support.
Bob
