botswana camps
Oct 30th, 2006, 04:23 PM
#41
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Sherry,
You questions on Jacana and Kwara....
Jacana i think is a delta camp, that takes in the ambience of the delta. I havent been there, but, another fodorite who used to post around here talks very highly of it. It may not be huge on big game.
I have been to Kwara/little Kwara. They have a smallish dog pack....but, you need more than average luck to find them. Some visitos have seen them, ofcourse. They are big on all predators. I have had spectacular lion viewing. I've had good leopard viewing also. Some visitors hv had good cheetah viewing. UGGGHHHH, i've been unlucky with cheetah there....
Hari
You questions on Jacana and Kwara....
Jacana i think is a delta camp, that takes in the ambience of the delta. I havent been there, but, another fodorite who used to post around here talks very highly of it. It may not be huge on big game.
I have been to Kwara/little Kwara. They have a smallish dog pack....but, you need more than average luck to find them. Some visitos have seen them, ofcourse. They are big on all predators. I have had spectacular lion viewing. I've had good leopard viewing also. Some visitors hv had good cheetah viewing. UGGGHHHH, i've been unlucky with cheetah there....
Hari
Oct 30th, 2006, 05:11 PM
#42
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Thanks Hari.
The stuff I've read about Jacana (sp.) does say that it's a wet camp without prolific wildlife - nice but not my cup of tea.
Also, I still want to canoe in Zimb. so some water and checking out a mokuru or 2 is good, but I don't need to be immersed in water constantly.
Also, I don't seem to see rave reviews on Kwara - am I missing something here?
So this brings me back to L.Vumbura or Duba Plains which I'm gathering may not be condusive to buffalo hunts in late July, true? Both do sound interesting and a bit offbeat which I do like. I must go read Lynns report again.
Does anyone know when Julian will be back?
I'm so confused!
The stuff I've read about Jacana (sp.) does say that it's a wet camp without prolific wildlife - nice but not my cup of tea.
Also, I still want to canoe in Zimb. so some water and checking out a mokuru or 2 is good, but I don't need to be immersed in water constantly.
Also, I don't seem to see rave reviews on Kwara - am I missing something here?
So this brings me back to L.Vumbura or Duba Plains which I'm gathering may not be condusive to buffalo hunts in late July, true? Both do sound interesting and a bit offbeat which I do like. I must go read Lynns report again.
Does anyone know when Julian will be back?
I'm so confused!
Oct 30th, 2006, 06:06 PM
#43
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"Does anyone know when Julian will be back?
I'm so confused!"
Sherry,
It's inevitable that you will be confused by all the advice you are being given. But it's all good advice, based mainly on the personal experiences <i><b> and preferences</b></i> of those giving it. You just have to decide what sounds best to you.
Please do not place too much importance on the advice that Julian may have given you. I don't know when or if he'll be allowed back, but I do know that his experience of camps in Botswana is very shallow. He certainly knows a lot about what camps are available and their rates and so on, and (like a travel agent) can reel off an itinerary for you at the drop of a hat. But he has actual experience of only a handful of Botswana camps. His first Botswana safari was <i><b> last year</b></i>. Now, not long ago, Julian's business associate Rocco described Julian as Fodor's "resident Botswana expert." On what grounds, I wonder? Julian didn't deny the claim, though in his place, I would have-- out of total embarrassment. I've been visiting Botswana since <i><b> 1996 </b></i> and would not dare class myself as an expert on Botswana. Others, like Lynn, have been going to Botswana for as long or even longer.
Let's just take one thing as a good example of what I'm saying...by accident or design, you put dogs at the head of your list. Unashamedly, I've been pushing Zibalianja to you as one of the best wild dog places in Botswana because I believe it is true, but I know it has a couple of very good rivals which I haven't experienced but which others have mentioned. We have personal experience of these places. You have to decide between them. Julian wouldn't have a clue about Zibalianja...he has never been there.
John
I'm so confused!"
Sherry,
It's inevitable that you will be confused by all the advice you are being given. But it's all good advice, based mainly on the personal experiences <i><b> and preferences</b></i> of those giving it. You just have to decide what sounds best to you.
Please do not place too much importance on the advice that Julian may have given you. I don't know when or if he'll be allowed back, but I do know that his experience of camps in Botswana is very shallow. He certainly knows a lot about what camps are available and their rates and so on, and (like a travel agent) can reel off an itinerary for you at the drop of a hat. But he has actual experience of only a handful of Botswana camps. His first Botswana safari was <i><b> last year</b></i>. Now, not long ago, Julian's business associate Rocco described Julian as Fodor's "resident Botswana expert." On what grounds, I wonder? Julian didn't deny the claim, though in his place, I would have-- out of total embarrassment. I've been visiting Botswana since <i><b> 1996 </b></i> and would not dare class myself as an expert on Botswana. Others, like Lynn, have been going to Botswana for as long or even longer.
Let's just take one thing as a good example of what I'm saying...by accident or design, you put dogs at the head of your list. Unashamedly, I've been pushing Zibalianja to you as one of the best wild dog places in Botswana because I believe it is true, but I know it has a couple of very good rivals which I haven't experienced but which others have mentioned. We have personal experience of these places. You have to decide between them. Julian wouldn't have a clue about Zibalianja...he has never been there.
John
Oct 30th, 2006, 06:40 PM
#44
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Hi John,
Although I was being facetious about Julian, I did think he had gone to L. Vumbura. Might be wrong, as I can't remember who's been where.
Anyhow, if you think I've overlooked any camps please let me know.
Your all extremely helpful.
Sherry
Although I was being facetious about Julian, I did think he had gone to L. Vumbura. Might be wrong, as I can't remember who's been where.
Anyhow, if you think I've overlooked any camps please let me know.
Your all extremely helpful.
Sherry
Oct 30th, 2006, 07:00 PM
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Sherry,
Yes, Julian has described Little Vumbura as his favourite or one of his favourite camps. From what he and others have said, it certainly sounds worth considering.
Perhaps you should have put a winking smiley after your "I'm confused" comment. But what I said should serve as a useful revelation to some, so it can stand.
John
Yes, Julian has described Little Vumbura as his favourite or one of his favourite camps. From what he and others have said, it certainly sounds worth considering.
Perhaps you should have put a winking smiley after your "I'm confused" comment. But what I said should serve as a useful revelation to some, so it can stand.
John
Oct 30th, 2006, 07:26 PM
#46
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Sherry,
Let me add my 2cents to what John mentioned......sometimes, it's best to not look for rave-reviews. Also, depending on, if you are looking for rave reviews from a specific person only? I can't compare Kwara to Little Vumbura, as i havent been to LV, personally. However, several ppl on these boards including Lynn have been to the Vumbura concession....maybe, their trip reports are not very dramatic....but, definitely very very informative.....
That said, i'm sure Julian will be back soon enough (i dont know if he is back from Kenya, yet). If he is, i'm sure he can help you out via email until he gets back to posting here.
I think you are doing well with including Chitabe and Zib in your plans. If i were you, i would easily fit in Little Vumbura.....you still have a shot to see the dogs there (small chance). Even if you dont see the dogs at LV, you will enjoy the delta ambience along with some other good game viewing.....
Hari
Let me add my 2cents to what John mentioned......sometimes, it's best to not look for rave-reviews. Also, depending on, if you are looking for rave reviews from a specific person only? I can't compare Kwara to Little Vumbura, as i havent been to LV, personally. However, several ppl on these boards including Lynn have been to the Vumbura concession....maybe, their trip reports are not very dramatic....but, definitely very very informative.....
That said, i'm sure Julian will be back soon enough (i dont know if he is back from Kenya, yet). If he is, i'm sure he can help you out via email until he gets back to posting here.
I think you are doing well with including Chitabe and Zib in your plans. If i were you, i would easily fit in Little Vumbura.....you still have a shot to see the dogs there (small chance). Even if you dont see the dogs at LV, you will enjoy the delta ambience along with some other good game viewing.....
Hari
Oct 30th, 2006, 08:19 PM
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Hi Sherry,
Maybe I can add my 2c too (while the resident Bots expert completes his time-out)...
Unless you have a lot of time, going to see dogs may disappoint. Like John says, you just can't predict with animals that have such a large home range (unless you get them denning).
L.Vum is a nice camp indeed - walkways on the sand and a nice, bush camp feel to it. I recommend the Vumbura concession a LOT, but because it offers the best water/land combo (IMO) in the Delta. For dogs - very unlikely. Leopard, possibly. Sable and good general game - almost certainly. Lion and cheetah - very good chance.
Chitabe is probably my favorite (excluding Mombo, of course) for consistently good predators (including lion, leopard, dogs) and consistently good general game all year. No water activities. Most guests love either camp here.
Linyanti / Selinda. Great elephants and predators during the winter to spring months (before the rains get going). The Savuti Channel (quite reachable from Selinda, Zib, Savuti camp and DumaTau) offers lovely general game viewing all year and especially good opportunities to see dogs and cheetah (plus lion, leopard and nocturnal cats).
You don't mention birding, so I left out any comment thereof.
My advice from reading your posts - keep Chitabe and one of the Linyanti/Selinda area camps. The channel has never disappointed me and I've gone almost every year since 1995. If you want a bit of the water experience (I recommend it) - add Little Vum.
Good luck!
James
Maybe I can add my 2c too (while the resident Bots expert completes his time-out)...
Unless you have a lot of time, going to see dogs may disappoint. Like John says, you just can't predict with animals that have such a large home range (unless you get them denning).
L.Vum is a nice camp indeed - walkways on the sand and a nice, bush camp feel to it. I recommend the Vumbura concession a LOT, but because it offers the best water/land combo (IMO) in the Delta. For dogs - very unlikely. Leopard, possibly. Sable and good general game - almost certainly. Lion and cheetah - very good chance.
Chitabe is probably my favorite (excluding Mombo, of course) for consistently good predators (including lion, leopard, dogs) and consistently good general game all year. No water activities. Most guests love either camp here.
Linyanti / Selinda. Great elephants and predators during the winter to spring months (before the rains get going). The Savuti Channel (quite reachable from Selinda, Zib, Savuti camp and DumaTau) offers lovely general game viewing all year and especially good opportunities to see dogs and cheetah (plus lion, leopard and nocturnal cats).
You don't mention birding, so I left out any comment thereof.
My advice from reading your posts - keep Chitabe and one of the Linyanti/Selinda area camps. The channel has never disappointed me and I've gone almost every year since 1995. If you want a bit of the water experience (I recommend it) - add Little Vum.
Good luck!
James
Oct 30th, 2006, 10:17 PM
#48
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Sherry,
Jacana is mostly focused on water activities. I saw lions feeding on a buffalo kill there (near Kwetsani) but I primarily focus on its birdlife (good place to see the Pel's fishing owl) there and threats everything else as a bonus
Depending on the time of year visiting Botswana, I'll pick out the areas/camps I am going to visit. I take into account which animals/birds I will be focusing on and then book a long stay at those camps (a week or more) in the hope that sooner or later I'll have my chances (which is not always the case) Have an open mind and threats everything that you see as special, that's my motto.
About the dogs, others give you already some good advice. If you want to maximize you chances, one of the things to do is to travel on the last spot (after being informed where the dogs are denning). But that said, there has to be availability at the camps (which is difficult in peak season) and you have to be very flexible.
Like others mentioned, don't count to much on Julian's advice because he only covered few camps in Botswana (and some of them for a very short time - f.e. 1 day at Lebala)
Jacana is mostly focused on water activities. I saw lions feeding on a buffalo kill there (near Kwetsani) but I primarily focus on its birdlife (good place to see the Pel's fishing owl) there and threats everything else as a bonus
Depending on the time of year visiting Botswana, I'll pick out the areas/camps I am going to visit. I take into account which animals/birds I will be focusing on and then book a long stay at those camps (a week or more) in the hope that sooner or later I'll have my chances (which is not always the case) Have an open mind and threats everything that you see as special, that's my motto.
About the dogs, others give you already some good advice. If you want to maximize you chances, one of the things to do is to travel on the last spot (after being informed where the dogs are denning). But that said, there has to be availability at the camps (which is difficult in peak season) and you have to be very flexible.
Like others mentioned, don't count to much on Julian's advice because he only covered few camps in Botswana (and some of them for a very short time - f.e. 1 day at Lebala)
Oct 30th, 2006, 10:24 PM
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There you are Sherry 
. If I were you, I'd have my itinerary set in concrete and be booking it right now, so I can spend the intervening months salivating at the prospects and not worrying about whether I've made the right choices. I'm glad none of my safaris involved a Fodor's discussion-- some of them might never have got off the ground 
John
. If I were you, I'd have my itinerary set in concrete and be booking it right now, so I can spend the intervening months salivating at the prospects and not worrying about whether I've made the right choices. I'm glad none of my safaris involved a Fodor's discussion-- some of them might never have got off the ground John
Oct 31st, 2006, 04:25 AM
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Good info. Thanks.
Now to fine tune:
4 - days canoeing/walking Zimb.
possibly Mana Pools
1 - Vic. Falls (just to take a peek)
2* - desert (not sure where or if this will be included)
Although I'm sure the above will be all be wonderful, I'd like to save the best for last. I'm not sure if this works logistically, though. Any thoughts or desert rec. - I would like to see tribespeople and/or some kind of cultural (not a canned experience)if possible.
5 - Zib or Chitabe (I could do 6/4
OR 4/6 if rec.)
3 - L. Vumbura
5 - Zib. or Chitabe
All the above is subject to change due to quotes etc. I'd love to hear any comments on the above.
Thanks;
Sherry
Now to fine tune:
4 - days canoeing/walking Zimb.
possibly Mana Pools
1 - Vic. Falls (just to take a peek)
2* - desert (not sure where or if this will be included)
Although I'm sure the above will be all be wonderful, I'd like to save the best for last. I'm not sure if this works logistically, though. Any thoughts or desert rec. - I would like to see tribespeople and/or some kind of cultural (not a canned experience)if possible.
5 - Zib or Chitabe (I could do 6/4
OR 4/6 if rec.)
3 - L. Vumbura
5 - Zib. or Chitabe
All the above is subject to change due to quotes etc. I'd love to hear any comments on the above.
Thanks;
Sherry
Oct 31st, 2006, 04:56 AM
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Sherry,
If you are allotting 12 nights to Botswana segment, you could do:
Little Vumbura -3
Chitabe-3 or 4
Zib- rest of your stay......
I think a week ago, Lynn was talking of Chitabe being booked for certain dates in 2008 already, so, for 2007 i suggest you start booking up.....Zib also would be busy as they only hv 3 tents.
With Zib, i was lucky with my dates....as i tried to change my trip by a night or two and guess what.....no space. This is for the first part of June i'm talking about.....
Hari
If you are allotting 12 nights to Botswana segment, you could do:
Little Vumbura -3
Chitabe-3 or 4
Zib- rest of your stay......
I think a week ago, Lynn was talking of Chitabe being booked for certain dates in 2008 already, so, for 2007 i suggest you start booking up.....Zib also would be busy as they only hv 3 tents.
With Zib, i was lucky with my dates....as i tried to change my trip by a night or two and guess what.....no space. This is for the first part of June i'm talking about.....
Hari
Oct 31st, 2006, 07:46 AM
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Sherry
I think your selection of split time Zib, Chitabe with some time at LV is perfect. Depending on availability you may have to do a 4/6 split but thats fine. Just go for it, don't get bogged down in analysis paralysis, like a certain someone who must revise an itinerary 15-20 times before he's happy!
I think your selection of split time Zib, Chitabe with some time at LV is perfect. Depending on availability you may have to do a 4/6 split but thats fine. Just go for it, don't get bogged down in analysis paralysis, like a certain someone who must revise an itinerary 15-20 times before he's happy!
Oct 31st, 2006, 07:59 AM
#54
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What a powerhouse itinerary!
For the desert, Uncharted Africa does cultural trips with Bushmen that match your requirements. You might need a little more than 2 days for it though.
I want to go too!
For the desert, Uncharted Africa does cultural trips with Bushmen that match your requirements. You might need a little more than 2 days for it though.
I want to go too!
Oct 31st, 2006, 08:10 AM
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Well I was thinking about the posibility of stopping off in N.Dakota en route to Italy. Do you think I should stop at the Great barrior reef first. Enough about what you think, I have decided to......... sound familiar? (be clear, this is a smiley)
Anyhow, I have already sent a few emails for quotes this morning which may bring me back to AP (anal/paral.)
Thanks for the nudge, Matt;
Sherry
(be clear, this is a smiley)Anyhow, I have already sent a few emails for quotes this morning which may bring me back to AP (anal/paral.)
Thanks for the nudge, Matt;
Sherry
Oct 31st, 2006, 08:19 AM
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Lynn,
You like? Caution 1st about joining my group - This will be the puppy express ((&
) ((&) ((&) - although, you do seem to know about these kinds of obsessions, no?
I'll check out that site.
Thanks;
Sherry
You like? Caution 1st about joining my group - This will be the puppy express ((&
) ((&) ((&) - although, you do seem to know about these kinds of obsessions, no?I'll check out that site.
Thanks;
Sherry
Oct 31st, 2006, 08:30 AM
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Sherry: That is an awesome itinerary -- especially for predators. You have selected the two most prolific wild dog denning areas and traveling at a great time of year so you are doing as well as you can to meet your goal of seeing the dogs. Plus, they are in areas known for diverse predator sightings so you should have great viewing even if the dogs are elusive. L.V. seems to consistently get the best feedback for a camp that offers water without sacrificing good game viewing. I love Duba but Paradise is my favorite part of that area and with the risk of lions being in inaccessible areas it is better to save for a future trip.
As for the desert I can highly recommend the Deception Valley Lodge (DVL). I know Jack's and San camp gets great reviews and I would love to get to them but what I love about DVL is you can experience the desert and still have great wildlife viewing. They have a high density of leopard at DVL as well as a resident pride of lion that came right through camp when we were there. Add to that the ability to do an entire day in the Central Kalahari Game Reserve which is often teeming with cheetah. Keep in mind that it is recommended that you stay 3 nights to do that day -- I think you could do it with a 2 night stay but you need to coordinate it with your bushmen walk and your time would be a little hectic. We missed the drive and I greatly regret it, both guides said it is incredible.
Our bushmen walk was the best part. The two bushmen were very enthusiastic to share their knowledge. I hate canned culture and this did not feel that way at all. I read Julian's report from a bushmen walk at Jack's and it seems like ours included a little more things and allowed us to participate much more. For example, we were able to drink water squeezed from the shavings of a root bulb where they only watched the bushmen do it. We were also able to try our hand at making fire with sticks and shooting their bow and arrow. I don't want to try and draw any conclusions based on 2 trip reports but I can say I treasure our bushmen experience, it was an incredible afternoon.
My guide Adriaan, was the best I have every had, you have a bushmen tracker on your game drives, food was tip top, and the chalets wonderful.
I have included much more detail in my trip report.
As for the desert I can highly recommend the Deception Valley Lodge (DVL). I know Jack's and San camp gets great reviews and I would love to get to them but what I love about DVL is you can experience the desert and still have great wildlife viewing. They have a high density of leopard at DVL as well as a resident pride of lion that came right through camp when we were there. Add to that the ability to do an entire day in the Central Kalahari Game Reserve which is often teeming with cheetah. Keep in mind that it is recommended that you stay 3 nights to do that day -- I think you could do it with a 2 night stay but you need to coordinate it with your bushmen walk and your time would be a little hectic. We missed the drive and I greatly regret it, both guides said it is incredible.
Our bushmen walk was the best part. The two bushmen were very enthusiastic to share their knowledge. I hate canned culture and this did not feel that way at all. I read Julian's report from a bushmen walk at Jack's and it seems like ours included a little more things and allowed us to participate much more. For example, we were able to drink water squeezed from the shavings of a root bulb where they only watched the bushmen do it. We were also able to try our hand at making fire with sticks and shooting their bow and arrow. I don't want to try and draw any conclusions based on 2 trip reports but I can say I treasure our bushmen experience, it was an incredible afternoon.
My guide Adriaan, was the best I have every had, you have a bushmen tracker on your game drives, food was tip top, and the chalets wonderful.
I have included much more detail in my trip report.
Oct 31st, 2006, 12:12 PM
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"Well I was thinking about the posibility of stopping off in N.Dakota en route to Italy. Do you think I should stop at the Great barrior reef first. Enough about what you think, I have decided to......... sound familiar? (be clear, this is a smiley)"
Well, for desert, you could think about throwing in a bit of outback Aussie
Seriously, it is truly a powerhouse itinerary. I agree with Lynn. And Pred's desert suggestion sounds just the thing, too. At some stage, we had DVL in our sights, but somehow never got around to it.
John
Well, for desert, you could think about throwing in a bit of outback Aussie
Seriously, it is truly a powerhouse itinerary. I agree with Lynn. And Pred's desert suggestion sounds just the thing, too. At some stage, we had DVL in our sights, but somehow never got around to it.
John
Oct 31st, 2006, 12:44 PM
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PB - I went back and read your report again but can't find your photo link. The idea of Deception has peaked my interest since reading Mark and Delia's book and your well described visit. I have Sans and Deception being priced out.
Cooncat - once I put out a deposit, I'll post amounts - I'm paranoid about spys - is that part of the analysis paralysis syndrome
I imagine neither of us will love the $$$ amounts, though
p.s. there's always room for all of your 3 cooncats, as long as you don't whine about your Keens!
John - now that you mention it Aussie could work - if only!
Thanks all;
Sherry
Cooncat - once I put out a deposit, I'll post amounts - I'm paranoid about spys - is that part of the analysis paralysis syndrome
I imagine neither of us will love the $$$ amounts, though
p.s. there's always room for all of your 3 cooncats, as long as you don't whine about your Keens!
John - now that you mention it Aussie could work - if only!
Thanks all;
Sherry
