Best Time for S.African Safari
Feb 16th, 2010, 10:21 AM
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Best Time for S.African Safari
We are starting to research trip to Africa for later this year or next year. This is our first trip to Africa. We are thinking of 3-4 days in Cape Town and then 6-8 days in 2 different camps or 4 days in one camp and then 2-3 in Vic Falls. It appears each has its own "best time". We would prefer not to go when it's too cold nor too hot. I do read that best time to view wildlife is in winter months although I've read that wildlife viewing is good in Sabi Sabi most anytime. We were originally thinking of March or October. I've read that Cape Town is best in Feb-Mar. Is S. Africa the best choice for 1st safari? If we only have 10-14 days, how would you suggest we spend it?
Feb 16th, 2010, 01:49 PM
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Either of your itineraries sounds good. Vic Falls can be done in 2 nts. Sorry, you can't have it all - it gets cold at night on safari when the wildlife is best (June - Sept) and CT is best in our spring, their fall. Personally, the wildlife takes precedence. The World Cup is this year, so avoid June-July.
Feb 17th, 2010, 10:46 AM
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To answer your question, S. Africa is a great choice for a first safari, especially if you'd like some time in Cape Town too and Vic Falls.
I'm with Christabir on the timing and such.
Your plan of 4 Cape Town, 4 Safari, 2 Vic Falls works well if you want maximum variety. You may need a day or two transit, but that's well under 14, excluding international air.
If the falls are not that important, then my own preference would be 4 Cape Town and every additional hour you can manage on safari--either 2 Sabi Sands locations/neighboring reserves or a Sabi Sands & Phinda combo. The Sabi Sands & Phinda may need a day in between the two for transport.
Good luck.
I'm with Christabir on the timing and such.
Your plan of 4 Cape Town, 4 Safari, 2 Vic Falls works well if you want maximum variety. You may need a day or two transit, but that's well under 14, excluding international air.
If the falls are not that important, then my own preference would be 4 Cape Town and every additional hour you can manage on safari--either 2 Sabi Sands locations/neighboring reserves or a Sabi Sands & Phinda combo. The Sabi Sands & Phinda may need a day in between the two for transport.
Good luck.
Feb 17th, 2010, 12:10 PM
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When we visited, we did the VFA extension, but also included 2/nts at Chobe in Botswana. Spent 4/nts CPT, 1/nt VFA, 2/nts Chobe, 1/nt JNB (due to flight schedules), 4/nts Sabi Sabi, 1/nt Panorama Rt on way back to JNB for homebound.
It's very tempting, since you're almost there, to include VFA (whether on the Zim or Zam side), but it's an expensive choice if only 2/nts. We did it only to be able to get into Botswana (1.5/hrs from VFA) to visit Chobe.
Otherwise, as above, you can do CPT and safari. Whether splitting all the time between 2/camps at Sabi or Sabi/Phinda* or Sabi/Manyaleti or Sabi/Timbavati.
*the longest distance between the two areas.
It's very tempting, since you're almost there, to include VFA (whether on the Zim or Zam side), but it's an expensive choice if only 2/nts. We did it only to be able to get into Botswana (1.5/hrs from VFA) to visit Chobe.
Otherwise, as above, you can do CPT and safari. Whether splitting all the time between 2/camps at Sabi or Sabi/Phinda* or Sabi/Manyaleti or Sabi/Timbavati.
*the longest distance between the two areas.
Feb 17th, 2010, 06:07 PM
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I've been on South Africa safaris every year in Sep since 2005. The last three years has been several days of so-so weather, rainy (but not hard rain) and overcast. I went one year in May and weather was great but perhaps a little cool some mornings. Last year poster "jczinn" here went to Kruger and Sabi Sand in November and had half rainy days.
On my last Sep 2009 safari I asked both camps (Kings Camp and Kirkmans Kamp) staff for their opinions for best safari time in SA. They said July or August. Although August can be windy and July a bit chilly. In 2010 I'm going in either May or July, have not decide yet.
regards - tom
On my last Sep 2009 safari I asked both camps (Kings Camp and Kirkmans Kamp) staff for their opinions for best safari time in SA. They said July or August. Although August can be windy and July a bit chilly. In 2010 I'm going in either May or July, have not decide yet.
regards - tom
Feb 18th, 2010, 03:02 AM
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hi winnick,
where are your from (in the US) and what are you looking to spend (excluding international flights)? that would be very helpful for all of us to make a very specific recomendation.
craig beal
where are your from (in the US) and what are you looking to spend (excluding international flights)? that would be very helpful for all of us to make a very specific recomendation.
craig beal
Feb 18th, 2010, 10:15 AM
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Hi,
In terms of weather, February is probably the best month to visit Cape Town. It's normally warm and not as windy as in December/January. March is also quite good.
Normally you won't see whales and the flora is not as stunning as in August/September but on the other hand, the weather is quite dodgy during these months.
If you want to visit the winelands too, I recommend to spend at least 4 full days in Cape Town.
South Africa is a great destination for a first safari for 2 reasons:
- most people want to see the big five at close quarters on their first safari and you have good chances to come across them in f.e. a lot of reserves around the Kruger.
- in terms of accomodation, there is a wide variety of choices of camps from quite basic to extremely luxurious.
I don't know if you have any special intrests (animals/birds/photography) while on safari. If not, I would recommend to just stay at one camp in the Sabi Sands for 4 or 5 nights.
If you are not doing anything special at Vic Falls (rafting/bungee jumping), I would stay only one day and maximum two days. If you visit the falls, I would spend another 2 days in Chobe, where I would do a boat cruise and a couple of game drives. Try to book one of the lodges that are not on the busiest side (area between Kasane and Serondela) of the Chobe riverfront like Muchenje.
If you want to do all of this, I would recommend to go in late April, early May.
Don't let yourself talk into expensive lodges unless you adore extreme luxury which comes at a price (from which the camp itself and the travel agent mostly benefits).
Cheers,
Johan
In terms of weather, February is probably the best month to visit Cape Town. It's normally warm and not as windy as in December/January. March is also quite good.
Normally you won't see whales and the flora is not as stunning as in August/September but on the other hand, the weather is quite dodgy during these months.
If you want to visit the winelands too, I recommend to spend at least 4 full days in Cape Town.
South Africa is a great destination for a first safari for 2 reasons:
- most people want to see the big five at close quarters on their first safari and you have good chances to come across them in f.e. a lot of reserves around the Kruger.
- in terms of accomodation, there is a wide variety of choices of camps from quite basic to extremely luxurious.
I don't know if you have any special intrests (animals/birds/photography) while on safari. If not, I would recommend to just stay at one camp in the Sabi Sands for 4 or 5 nights.
If you are not doing anything special at Vic Falls (rafting/bungee jumping), I would stay only one day and maximum two days. If you visit the falls, I would spend another 2 days in Chobe, where I would do a boat cruise and a couple of game drives. Try to book one of the lodges that are not on the busiest side (area between Kasane and Serondela) of the Chobe riverfront like Muchenje.
If you want to do all of this, I would recommend to go in late April, early May.
Don't let yourself talk into expensive lodges unless you adore extreme luxury which comes at a price (from which the camp itself and the travel agent mostly benefits).
Cheers,
Johan
Feb 18th, 2010, 10:27 AM
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Craig,
Are you saying that if I can spend more money on a trip to Africa, you would recommend me to stay in more expensive lodges or hotels?
Don't you think that most travellers are looking for good value for money?
In my humble opinion, the budget is only helpful to rule out certain itineraries/choices of camps (named by the client) which are too expensive.
Johan
Are you saying that if I can spend more money on a trip to Africa, you would recommend me to stay in more expensive lodges or hotels?
Don't you think that most travellers are looking for good value for money?
In my humble opinion, the budget is only helpful to rule out certain itineraries/choices of camps (named by the client) which are too expensive.
Johan
Feb 18th, 2010, 12:22 PM
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Hi Johan!
As far as agent commissions go it doesn't really matter where the client stays or for how long. If a client has a budget of $5,000 the agent will make $500-$1,000 as long as they can earn the business. Usually the first step of earning the business is to demonstrate knowledge and therefore value. F/E on a $5,000 budget, a couple could spend about eight nights at Elephant Plains, two nights at Singita, or fifteen days in the Kruger National Park (rental car and food considered). For Elephant Plains and Singita, the agent would make the exact same commission off the booking (hard to believe huh). For the SAN Park booking the amount would be less because the base commission is less.
As you may know, I own a tour operation business based in the USA that specializes in Africa. We have direct contracts with most of the safari lodges in Southern Africa frequented by Americans. We also contract directly with SAN Parks so we can book rest-camps for people on self-drive itineraries. The lowest commission threshold comes from the SAN Park contract which starts off at a base of 10% and escalates depending on volume up to 20%. The highest commissions come from lodges in Botswana and other more remote locations that most people are just not comfortable booking on their own for a first time safari. These are also the places that an agent has to spend lots of time and money to learn about.
All the safari lodges pay about the same commissions to bona fide agents and operators with only about a 4%-6% variation among the lodges. For example, I know of a company in the UK can buy Kwando camps for less than Travel Beyond because I have seen their quotes before. I know my company can buy Wilderness Camps at a lower threshold than some others. It really depends on the lodge and the company. If I wanted to make more money off a Kwando booking I could consolidate my clients booking through a company that has a strong and profitable relationships with Kwando. There are really many ways to go about this.
The bottom line is that it is not advantageous to sell experiences I have not had myself. I have only been to Africa 27 times and there are many more places to see on my list. I stick to what I know and immediately tell clients what I don't know. If I have not been somewhere there are eight other consultants in our office that have. One of our consultants worked for Wilderness Safaris in Malawi for two years. One worked for them in the Kafue and Namib Desert. One is an American that has property in South Africa in the Karoo. So, we try to capitalize on our strengths and passions.
At the end of the day, it is the client that makes the ultimate decision on who to hand their credit card too.
If the person that started this thread presents a budget and time/season then I will make a suggestion. It would be fun if you could write an itinerary too and then we can see what they chose in the end.
Have a good evening and I hope the tax season is coming to an end!
Craig Beal
As far as agent commissions go it doesn't really matter where the client stays or for how long. If a client has a budget of $5,000 the agent will make $500-$1,000 as long as they can earn the business. Usually the first step of earning the business is to demonstrate knowledge and therefore value. F/E on a $5,000 budget, a couple could spend about eight nights at Elephant Plains, two nights at Singita, or fifteen days in the Kruger National Park (rental car and food considered). For Elephant Plains and Singita, the agent would make the exact same commission off the booking (hard to believe huh). For the SAN Park booking the amount would be less because the base commission is less.
As you may know, I own a tour operation business based in the USA that specializes in Africa. We have direct contracts with most of the safari lodges in Southern Africa frequented by Americans. We also contract directly with SAN Parks so we can book rest-camps for people on self-drive itineraries. The lowest commission threshold comes from the SAN Park contract which starts off at a base of 10% and escalates depending on volume up to 20%. The highest commissions come from lodges in Botswana and other more remote locations that most people are just not comfortable booking on their own for a first time safari. These are also the places that an agent has to spend lots of time and money to learn about.
All the safari lodges pay about the same commissions to bona fide agents and operators with only about a 4%-6% variation among the lodges. For example, I know of a company in the UK can buy Kwando camps for less than Travel Beyond because I have seen their quotes before. I know my company can buy Wilderness Camps at a lower threshold than some others. It really depends on the lodge and the company. If I wanted to make more money off a Kwando booking I could consolidate my clients booking through a company that has a strong and profitable relationships with Kwando. There are really many ways to go about this.
The bottom line is that it is not advantageous to sell experiences I have not had myself. I have only been to Africa 27 times and there are many more places to see on my list. I stick to what I know and immediately tell clients what I don't know. If I have not been somewhere there are eight other consultants in our office that have. One of our consultants worked for Wilderness Safaris in Malawi for two years. One worked for them in the Kafue and Namib Desert. One is an American that has property in South Africa in the Karoo. So, we try to capitalize on our strengths and passions.
At the end of the day, it is the client that makes the ultimate decision on who to hand their credit card too.
If the person that started this thread presents a budget and time/season then I will make a suggestion. It would be fun if you could write an itinerary too and then we can see what they chose in the end.
Have a good evening and I hope the tax season is coming to an end!
Craig Beal
Feb 18th, 2010, 01:07 PM
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Hi Craig,
A couple of quick thoughts:
I would think that a client indicates how important luxury is on safari. Let's say he/she's happy with the kind of accomodation of Elephant plains but has a budget to afford Singita. Wouldn't it be tempting to go for Singita as a TA?
In your equation there is something wrong. You have to compare the same amount of days in the camps. And then it's easy to see that more commission is earned with f.e. Singita.
The highest commissions come from lodges in Botswana and other more remote locations that most people are just not comfortable booking on their own for a first time safari. These are also the places that an agent has to spend lots of time and money to learn about.
You and me know very well the reason behind the high commissions for booking lodges in f.e. Botswana. So don't talk nonsense here. Do you really want us to believe that f.e. WS or Kwando are not accepting direct bookings because first time clients are not comfortable booking directly with them??? Maybe you can tell us how much it costs (excluding international flights) to go on a fact-finding trip as an agent to the camps in Botswana.
Just a quick question: how many mobile safaris have you done in Botswana with Bushways as you promote this option at the bottom end of the market there?
The most important thing is that a client made a decision she/he's happy with. And it's irrelevant if that will be my suggestion or yours or someone else's.
We look at it from different perspectives and have often conflicting views. So let's hope someone can learn something from your and my comments.
Do you think people will pay more attention to my statements if I say I have spend much more time in Africa/on safari than you did. Don't think so really.
Johan
A couple of quick thoughts:
I would think that a client indicates how important luxury is on safari. Let's say he/she's happy with the kind of accomodation of Elephant plains but has a budget to afford Singita. Wouldn't it be tempting to go for Singita as a TA?
In your equation there is something wrong. You have to compare the same amount of days in the camps. And then it's easy to see that more commission is earned with f.e. Singita.
The highest commissions come from lodges in Botswana and other more remote locations that most people are just not comfortable booking on their own for a first time safari. These are also the places that an agent has to spend lots of time and money to learn about.
You and me know very well the reason behind the high commissions for booking lodges in f.e. Botswana. So don't talk nonsense here. Do you really want us to believe that f.e. WS or Kwando are not accepting direct bookings because first time clients are not comfortable booking directly with them??? Maybe you can tell us how much it costs (excluding international flights) to go on a fact-finding trip as an agent to the camps in Botswana.
Just a quick question: how many mobile safaris have you done in Botswana with Bushways as you promote this option at the bottom end of the market there?
The most important thing is that a client made a decision she/he's happy with. And it's irrelevant if that will be my suggestion or yours or someone else's.
We look at it from different perspectives and have often conflicting views. So let's hope someone can learn something from your and my comments.
Do you think people will pay more attention to my statements if I say I have spend much more time in Africa/on safari than you did. Don't think so really.
Johan
Feb 18th, 2010, 01:49 PM
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Hi Johan,
You always have good questions.
The problem with the long stay Singita example is that 99% of high net worth individuals would find diminishing value in a stay beyond three nights. I do not know if I have ever booked anyone into a lodge in the Sabi Sands for more than four nights.
Regarding direct bookings: The trend has been for lodges to move away from direct bookings, especially in South Central Africa. I really do not know the reasons because I have never been told nor have I asked. I would imagine the reason is two-fold:
1. A first time safari booking typically requires 50-150 emails and 10-20 phone calls with a nervous customer. This is time consuming. The best way to shorten this time investment is to meet face to face which can be done through a geographic network of commissioned agents (like the insurance industry). Also, there is less chance of error when the clients speak and write in the same dialect of English or whatever language they speak.
2. The lodges build stronger agent allegiance by paying commissions and not taking direct bookings. The ones that did it first are getting the best return from this policy.
If I want to go on site-inspection safari the cost is typically between $500-1,000 for 7-10 days with any operator/lodge chain. This means I travel with a group of agents with one night stays at lodges during low or shoulder season. There is also an expectation to see other lodges in the middle of the day between drives so it is quite tiring.
When I took my kids on safari two years ago I paid normal rates for them. My wife and I paid around $2,000 to cover charters and taxes. This was a three week trip including luxury rail, Cape Town, Sabi Sands, Botswana, etc (my wife works at Travel Beyond). Now days I get invited to visit most lodges for free but, unfortunately, I do not have too much time to travel. When I get invited to come for free I usually don’t offer to pay although I could consider this for ethical reasons. Paying full price is more typical for journalists and not travel agent.
My safari consultants typically have to pay around $1,000 to go to Botswana for a week in the green season. They are not ever allowed to go in high season because the Botswana lodges do not offer agents discounted travel between June and October.
I have never been on a mobile safari in Botswana. I have met the owner of Bushways and he has done a great job with the people I have sent his way. He has never paid me a commission for the referrals but I should probably ask him (ha ha). The only problem is that would make my advice on the forums financially motivated so I can’t do that (it violates the rules). I have not seen many people ever offer an alternative to Bushways. If you know one, throw it out there! I do plan on using the services of Dave Carson some day. He does high end mobiles and is based out of Vic Falls. He came to our office in Minnesota a few weeks ago having heard about Travel Beyond from clients and other people in the industry. He is featured on the web site of the Africa Adventure Company and is good friends with Alison and Mark Nolting.
Let me know if I can be of further assistance in providing "insider information".
Craig Beal
You always have good questions.
The problem with the long stay Singita example is that 99% of high net worth individuals would find diminishing value in a stay beyond three nights. I do not know if I have ever booked anyone into a lodge in the Sabi Sands for more than four nights.
Regarding direct bookings: The trend has been for lodges to move away from direct bookings, especially in South Central Africa. I really do not know the reasons because I have never been told nor have I asked. I would imagine the reason is two-fold:
1. A first time safari booking typically requires 50-150 emails and 10-20 phone calls with a nervous customer. This is time consuming. The best way to shorten this time investment is to meet face to face which can be done through a geographic network of commissioned agents (like the insurance industry). Also, there is less chance of error when the clients speak and write in the same dialect of English or whatever language they speak.
2. The lodges build stronger agent allegiance by paying commissions and not taking direct bookings. The ones that did it first are getting the best return from this policy.
If I want to go on site-inspection safari the cost is typically between $500-1,000 for 7-10 days with any operator/lodge chain. This means I travel with a group of agents with one night stays at lodges during low or shoulder season. There is also an expectation to see other lodges in the middle of the day between drives so it is quite tiring.
When I took my kids on safari two years ago I paid normal rates for them. My wife and I paid around $2,000 to cover charters and taxes. This was a three week trip including luxury rail, Cape Town, Sabi Sands, Botswana, etc (my wife works at Travel Beyond). Now days I get invited to visit most lodges for free but, unfortunately, I do not have too much time to travel. When I get invited to come for free I usually don’t offer to pay although I could consider this for ethical reasons. Paying full price is more typical for journalists and not travel agent.
My safari consultants typically have to pay around $1,000 to go to Botswana for a week in the green season. They are not ever allowed to go in high season because the Botswana lodges do not offer agents discounted travel between June and October.
I have never been on a mobile safari in Botswana. I have met the owner of Bushways and he has done a great job with the people I have sent his way. He has never paid me a commission for the referrals but I should probably ask him (ha ha). The only problem is that would make my advice on the forums financially motivated so I can’t do that (it violates the rules). I have not seen many people ever offer an alternative to Bushways. If you know one, throw it out there! I do plan on using the services of Dave Carson some day. He does high end mobiles and is based out of Vic Falls. He came to our office in Minnesota a few weeks ago having heard about Travel Beyond from clients and other people in the industry. He is featured on the web site of the Africa Adventure Company and is good friends with Alison and Mark Nolting.
Let me know if I can be of further assistance in providing "insider information".
Craig Beal
Feb 18th, 2010, 02:56 PM
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Craig,
Are you claiming that you make the same commission on selling 3 nights at Singita Ebony lodge (10.950 ZAR per night) as on selling 3 nights at Elephant plains (2.400 ZAR per night for a luxury suite)?
I can at least hope that some of your other consultants have done a mobile with Bushways as you claim that is not advantageous to sell experiences that you hadn't had yourself.
I know how fact-finding trips are conducted and quoted but was just curious for your answer. Even as an ordinary client, I have some insider info at my disposal.
If direct bookings are allowed, TA's would be reluctant to refer to these camps in future ... Could that also be one of the reasons you think? Anyway we discussed that issue in another thread last year so we don't need to do it again here.
Which value/info in terms of choice of camps can you add as a TA which can't be found in trip reports,official websites and info provided by ordinary clients on travel forums?
And wouldn't it be more fair to ask commissions (based on the amount of time spend with a customer) instead of asking a high percentage of the rack rate? I guess there would be less TA's specialising on African safaris then, as it won't be that lucrative anymore. I would be more than happy to hear your opinion about this.
But let me try to anticipate your answer here: yes, it's a more honest way but in reality it doesn't work like that and safari operators desperately need TA's to provide them with clients so they have a certain power in negotiating the height of the commissions involved.
Johan
Are you claiming that you make the same commission on selling 3 nights at Singita Ebony lodge (10.950 ZAR per night) as on selling 3 nights at Elephant plains (2.400 ZAR per night for a luxury suite)?
I can at least hope that some of your other consultants have done a mobile with Bushways as you claim that is not advantageous to sell experiences that you hadn't had yourself.
I know how fact-finding trips are conducted and quoted but was just curious for your answer. Even as an ordinary client, I have some insider info at my disposal.
If direct bookings are allowed, TA's would be reluctant to refer to these camps in future ... Could that also be one of the reasons you think? Anyway we discussed that issue in another thread last year so we don't need to do it again here.
Which value/info in terms of choice of camps can you add as a TA which can't be found in trip reports,official websites and info provided by ordinary clients on travel forums?
And wouldn't it be more fair to ask commissions (based on the amount of time spend with a customer) instead of asking a high percentage of the rack rate? I guess there would be less TA's specialising on African safaris then, as it won't be that lucrative anymore. I would be more than happy to hear your opinion about this.
But let me try to anticipate your answer here: yes, it's a more honest way but in reality it doesn't work like that and safari operators desperately need TA's to provide them with clients so they have a certain power in negotiating the height of the commissions involved.
Johan
Feb 18th, 2010, 05:02 PM
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Hi Johan,
Regarding Elephant Plains and Singita: I think you are mis-understanding me. If a client spends R20,000 at Singita or R20,000 at Elephant Plains, then a typical agent will make the same commission off the sale.
Bushways: If a client asks for that type of experience I point them in the right direction that, based on feedback from others, will provide a good experience. This is in lieu of saying "no comment".
Regarding the value of an agent: the vast majority of our clients don't have the desire or the time to shop around by trolling reports, forums, and web sites for information. They come to us and trust we will arrange a nice safari at a sensible price. Keep in mind, part of the value of an agent in the process is that the client is calling the agent and making no attempt to contact the lodges directly. They completely rely on what we tell them to do.
I agree 100% that a time based and fee based compensation system for agents would be the best way to run this industry. We have experimented with a fee based system only charging clients an hourly fee starting from the net price. It was a disaster and completely rejected by the clients. I tried the theory on one consumer and one travel agent from LA last year. Neither booked the trip, both got angry, and never became customers. I have spoken to our law firm and accounting firm and both say the billing process would be time consuming. I even paid money to attend two seminars by Joselyn Tepper (http://www.joselyntepper.com/) on how to switch a travel business to 100% fee based. We can't make the concept stick although I agree with the theory.
With that said, if a client approached me with a fee based proposal, I would be open to the discussion.
Craig Beal
Regarding Elephant Plains and Singita: I think you are mis-understanding me. If a client spends R20,000 at Singita or R20,000 at Elephant Plains, then a typical agent will make the same commission off the sale.
Bushways: If a client asks for that type of experience I point them in the right direction that, based on feedback from others, will provide a good experience. This is in lieu of saying "no comment".
Regarding the value of an agent: the vast majority of our clients don't have the desire or the time to shop around by trolling reports, forums, and web sites for information. They come to us and trust we will arrange a nice safari at a sensible price. Keep in mind, part of the value of an agent in the process is that the client is calling the agent and making no attempt to contact the lodges directly. They completely rely on what we tell them to do.
I agree 100% that a time based and fee based compensation system for agents would be the best way to run this industry. We have experimented with a fee based system only charging clients an hourly fee starting from the net price. It was a disaster and completely rejected by the clients. I tried the theory on one consumer and one travel agent from LA last year. Neither booked the trip, both got angry, and never became customers. I have spoken to our law firm and accounting firm and both say the billing process would be time consuming. I even paid money to attend two seminars by Joselyn Tepper (http://www.joselyntepper.com/) on how to switch a travel business to 100% fee based. We can't make the concept stick although I agree with the theory.
With that said, if a client approached me with a fee based proposal, I would be open to the discussion.
Craig Beal
Feb 18th, 2010, 05:39 PM
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Craig,
That's probably true in some of the cases. But, in many of the cases the On-line enquiry will direct the client to a prospective agent doesn't it? - I'm talking WS specifically. But, atleast the agents that they are directed to are approved and authorized by them.
There are so many overnight agents popping up these days - why do you think this is the case?
and, btw there was a eye popping article in the recent ngami times. Many of us were not surprised with the stats ......... www.ngamitimes.com
Btw, sorry that Brett Favre fumbled away the Vikings Season ............ Ouch! lost their best chance.....
Hari
That's probably true in some of the cases. But, in many of the cases the On-line enquiry will direct the client to a prospective agent doesn't it? - I'm talking WS specifically. But, atleast the agents that they are directed to are approved and authorized by them.
There are so many overnight agents popping up these days - why do you think this is the case?
and, btw there was a eye popping article in the recent ngami times. Many of us were not surprised with the stats ......... www.ngamitimes.com
Btw, sorry that Brett Favre fumbled away the Vikings Season ............ Ouch! lost their best chance.....
Hari
Feb 18th, 2010, 06:33 PM
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Hi Hari,
What article are you referring too? There are many articles in that link. The increase of VAT has been a big issue this week. So far, Desert & Delta and Kwando have announced they will not pass it on to clients under deposit and Wilderness will pass it on. For Wilderness Safaris, this leaves the decision up to the agents since they do not have direct clients.
Regarding agents popping up, we have found that not to be the case. There are 25% less registered travel agencies in the USA since 2000 according to ARC. The largest travel aganecy in Minnesota went bankrupt two moths ago (http://www.startribune.com/business/...oDEy3LGDiO7aiU). Although Hobit was not a competitor of my company their demise has raised questions among our clientele.
I do not know of many new Africa specialists in the USA that have appeared in the past two years. Perhaps this is not the case in overseas markets.
Femi - thanks for the boost.
Craig Beal
What article are you referring too? There are many articles in that link. The increase of VAT has been a big issue this week. So far, Desert & Delta and Kwando have announced they will not pass it on to clients under deposit and Wilderness will pass it on. For Wilderness Safaris, this leaves the decision up to the agents since they do not have direct clients.
Regarding agents popping up, we have found that not to be the case. There are 25% less registered travel agencies in the USA since 2000 according to ARC. The largest travel aganecy in Minnesota went bankrupt two moths ago (http://www.startribune.com/business/...oDEy3LGDiO7aiU). Although Hobit was not a competitor of my company their demise has raised questions among our clientele.
I do not know of many new Africa specialists in the USA that have appeared in the past two years. Perhaps this is not the case in overseas markets.
Femi - thanks for the boost.
Craig Beal
Feb 18th, 2010, 08:08 PM
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Thanks Craig, seconding what Femi said, your replies are very interesting.
And FWIW, I agree that most all, 98%?, first time safari goers do not investigate/research much, they trust a TA or use a tour company.
regards - tom
And FWIW, I agree that most all, 98%?, first time safari goers do not investigate/research much, they trust a TA or use a tour company.
regards - tom
Feb 18th, 2010, 09:15 PM
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Hi Craig,
Let me come back to the Singita & Elephant plains example.
Of course, you don't make the same commission on an stay of equal nights in one of those lodges. I just wanted that you stated it clearly here.
The problem is that agents who are dealing with unexperienced travellers (the most lucrative segment of the clientele) are tempted to push them towards the more expensive option ...
I agree with you that a lot of first time safari goers rely solely on a TA, which is in my opinion not the best idea to do as the current commission system is open to malpractices.
Well if clients don't have the time or desire to look for the info provided on the web but still find time to exchange a 100 e-mails and 20 telephone calls, they have only themselves to blame I suppose. Luckily a few still investigate here ...
I find it funny that you referral to Bushways is based on feedback from others... What do you do if someone asks your opinion about a lodge you haven't been to? Let's say Lebala for example?
Believe it or not but I sometimes get questions from TA's asking my opinion on certain lodges in Botswana...
Can we agree on the fact that you can't provide better info on the choice of camps than the info what is found on the web?
Hari is refering to the article: "Poverty levels a major threat to the delta" in which the following is stated:
According to the academic, “enclave tourism” has failed to uplift the lives of people along the delta as majority of them derive insignificant benefit from the tourism jobs they do – “only outsiders benefit while the local people do not benefit, (and is) thus called internal colonialism.. Under the current setup, 79% of revenue from the tourism sector leaves the country while only 21% remains in Botswana.”
The following question comes to mind: how much of the 79% goes to the TA's?
Femi,
End of last year Craig was banned for a couple of weeks on Fodors after being extremely rude to Hari & me. He acted this way as he had the impression we were not treating him fairly here. So I think it's in his own interest to be polite in the future if challenged.
Johan
Let me come back to the Singita & Elephant plains example.
Of course, you don't make the same commission on an stay of equal nights in one of those lodges. I just wanted that you stated it clearly here.
The problem is that agents who are dealing with unexperienced travellers (the most lucrative segment of the clientele) are tempted to push them towards the more expensive option ...
I agree with you that a lot of first time safari goers rely solely on a TA, which is in my opinion not the best idea to do as the current commission system is open to malpractices.
Well if clients don't have the time or desire to look for the info provided on the web but still find time to exchange a 100 e-mails and 20 telephone calls, they have only themselves to blame I suppose. Luckily a few still investigate here ...
I find it funny that you referral to Bushways is based on feedback from others... What do you do if someone asks your opinion about a lodge you haven't been to? Let's say Lebala for example?
Believe it or not but I sometimes get questions from TA's asking my opinion on certain lodges in Botswana...
Can we agree on the fact that you can't provide better info on the choice of camps than the info what is found on the web?
Hari is refering to the article: "Poverty levels a major threat to the delta" in which the following is stated:
According to the academic, “enclave tourism” has failed to uplift the lives of people along the delta as majority of them derive insignificant benefit from the tourism jobs they do – “only outsiders benefit while the local people do not benefit, (and is) thus called internal colonialism.. Under the current setup, 79% of revenue from the tourism sector leaves the country while only 21% remains in Botswana.”
The following question comes to mind: how much of the 79% goes to the TA's?
Femi,
End of last year Craig was banned for a couple of weeks on Fodors after being extremely rude to Hari & me. He acted this way as he had the impression we were not treating him fairly here. So I think it's in his own interest to be polite in the future if challenged.
Johan
Feb 18th, 2010, 10:12 PM
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Hi Craig,
"The problem with the long stay Singita example is that 99% of high net worth individuals would find diminishing value in a stay beyond three nights. I do not know if I have ever booked anyone into a lodge in the Sabi Sands for more than four nights."
Why do people (or is it just clients of yours) find it diminishing value as above in your post?
The other thing I don't understand is, people (first time safari goer) getting an itinerary from an agent and then coming onto the various travel fora (forums) to check on the recommended choice? Why so, after all the trust associated with the exchange of the 100 emails and phone calls? .... i find this quite baffling.......
Hari
"The problem with the long stay Singita example is that 99% of high net worth individuals would find diminishing value in a stay beyond three nights. I do not know if I have ever booked anyone into a lodge in the Sabi Sands for more than four nights."
Why do people (or is it just clients of yours) find it diminishing value as above in your post?
The other thing I don't understand is, people (first time safari goer) getting an itinerary from an agent and then coming onto the various travel fora (forums) to check on the recommended choice? Why so, after all the trust associated with the exchange of the 100 emails and phone calls? .... i find this quite baffling.......
Hari
