Best flight to J'burg???
Dec 26th, 2008, 09:32 AM
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Best flight to J'burg???
i am tossing and turning over this-probably for no reason. And I am sure this is a really obsessive question, but here it goes...
As i have never taken this long a flight I was wondering from all of your previous experiences what your priorities were in terms of choosing your flight to J' burg.
I am leaving from NYC.
these are the factors i was considering, and was wondering if i could get comments on how you might prioritize them, etc.
1. Flying non-stop (possible only on South African airways)
2. minimizing jet lag- what is the best departure time and arrival time for it.
3. Airline- are there any standouts, and ones to avoid at all costs.
This is the way things are presently going for me. I booked the flights on SAA and when i booked the departure time was 17:00 and arrival 17:00. it was a non stop flight lasting 17 hours. They have just changed the departure time to 11:30. arrival 8:30.
I am concerned that this will add to our jet lag, and also not exactly sure that we can make that time ( my son will have just graduated college 2 days before.
Since they have altered the flight they will give me a full refund.
I was looking at other options.
I can get a cheaper flight on Northwest/KLM which has a layover in Amsterdam of 2-3 hours (arrival amsterdam at 8;00)
thanks-amy
As i have never taken this long a flight I was wondering from all of your previous experiences what your priorities were in terms of choosing your flight to J' burg.
I am leaving from NYC.
these are the factors i was considering, and was wondering if i could get comments on how you might prioritize them, etc.
1. Flying non-stop (possible only on South African airways)
2. minimizing jet lag- what is the best departure time and arrival time for it.
3. Airline- are there any standouts, and ones to avoid at all costs.
This is the way things are presently going for me. I booked the flights on SAA and when i booked the departure time was 17:00 and arrival 17:00. it was a non stop flight lasting 17 hours. They have just changed the departure time to 11:30. arrival 8:30.
I am concerned that this will add to our jet lag, and also not exactly sure that we can make that time ( my son will have just graduated college 2 days before.
Since they have altered the flight they will give me a full refund.
I was looking at other options.
I can get a cheaper flight on Northwest/KLM which has a layover in Amsterdam of 2-3 hours (arrival amsterdam at 8;00)
thanks-amy
Dec 26th, 2008, 12:13 PM
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>>I booked the flights on SAA and when i booked the departure time was 17:00 and arrival 17:00. it was a non stop flight lasting 17 hours. They have just changed the departure time to 11:30. arrival 8:30.<<
The first ticket for non-stop departing NYC 5pm, arriving JNB 5pm next day - is the same we took and were fine next morning after arrival to start our trip. No jet lag, unless you consider that 5/days later I slept away an entire afternoon!
On the alternate flight - is that 11:30am, arriving 8:30am next day? or 11:30pm, arriving 8:30pm next day? Either/or and if the same amount of hours flying, I'd prefer the latter with an evening departure, arriving in the evening so you go right to sleep and should be fine to commence your holiday next morning.
What month are you planning to travel? If during winter months in northern hemisphere if you choose to connect in AMS, remember weather. I've found that even if bad weather in NYC, the intl flights are pushed to take of on time as many paxs are connecting once in Europe. And, then there's the issue of poor weather in AMS. While 2-3/hrs is good during spring, summer or fall, for me that's cutting it close for winter travel.
Whether flying non-stop on SAA or another carrier with a European stop, is very personal; I prefer non-stop or direct wherever and with an evening arrival so I can spend the night with the sandman.
As to the long flight, believe me, after 10/hrs you no longer feel the pain! Just bring your drugs and sleep!
The first ticket for non-stop departing NYC 5pm, arriving JNB 5pm next day - is the same we took and were fine next morning after arrival to start our trip. No jet lag, unless you consider that 5/days later I slept away an entire afternoon!
On the alternate flight - is that 11:30am, arriving 8:30am next day? or 11:30pm, arriving 8:30pm next day? Either/or and if the same amount of hours flying, I'd prefer the latter with an evening departure, arriving in the evening so you go right to sleep and should be fine to commence your holiday next morning.
What month are you planning to travel? If during winter months in northern hemisphere if you choose to connect in AMS, remember weather. I've found that even if bad weather in NYC, the intl flights are pushed to take of on time as many paxs are connecting once in Europe. And, then there's the issue of poor weather in AMS. While 2-3/hrs is good during spring, summer or fall, for me that's cutting it close for winter travel.
Whether flying non-stop on SAA or another carrier with a European stop, is very personal; I prefer non-stop or direct wherever and with an evening arrival so I can spend the night with the sandman.
As to the long flight, believe me, after 10/hrs you no longer feel the pain!
Just bring your drugs and sleep!
Dec 26th, 2008, 12:33 PM
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We also took the SAA flight last summer that arrived at 5:00pm local and were fine the next morning.
While the connection through Europe was a bit less expensive, the additional 5-6 hours of travel time, increased possibility of lost luggage with a connection, etc...just didn't seem worth it to us.
Is 17 hours a long flight?..you bet. But Sandi's right, after 10 hours or so you get a bit numb. One other option...is your starting point NYC? If not, there is a daily SAA flight out of Dullus in Wash. DC that departs at about 5pm. Delta also has a flight out of Atlanta the same time. All three flights were refueled at the same time in Dakar when we traveled in August..
While the connection through Europe was a bit less expensive, the additional 5-6 hours of travel time, increased possibility of lost luggage with a connection, etc...just didn't seem worth it to us.
Is 17 hours a long flight?..you bet. But Sandi's right, after 10 hours or so you get a bit numb. One other option...is your starting point NYC? If not, there is a daily SAA flight out of Dullus in Wash. DC that departs at about 5pm. Delta also has a flight out of Atlanta the same time. All three flights were refueled at the same time in Dakar when we traveled in August..
Dec 26th, 2008, 12:35 PM
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amy
flying west towards east is seemingly a lesser problem than vv - jetlag wise.
flying via amsterdam: you should be aware that KLM very often has got a luggage forwarding problem within amsterdam! there are several friends who flew KLM to east africa as well as south africa and their luggage arrived much later - one in ruanda got the luggage after a week when he came back from the safari/gorilla trekking.
so the cheapest airline/connection doesn't necessarily mean the best!
as SAA goes direct from NYC i would definately fly SAA.
div
flying west towards east is seemingly a lesser problem than vv - jetlag wise.
flying via amsterdam: you should be aware that KLM very often has got a luggage forwarding problem within amsterdam! there are several friends who flew KLM to east africa as well as south africa and their luggage arrived much later - one in ruanda got the luggage after a week when he came back from the safari/gorilla trekking.
so the cheapest airline/connection doesn't necessarily mean the best!
as SAA goes direct from NYC i would definately fly SAA.
div
Dec 26th, 2008, 01:37 PM
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thanks all
for clarification the 5pm flight on SAA has JUST been changed to 11:30 am.
i do originate from NY so to fly to DC is another flight, but perhaps better than amsterdam for a conncection.
i am going in May so weather should not be a problem anywhere (x my fingers).
i guess i can look at the early morning arrival as a chance to see j'burg and take a nap??? see the apartheid musuem, whatever.
glad to know that numbness occurs around 10 hours, that helps
amy
for clarification the 5pm flight on SAA has JUST been changed to 11:30 am.
i do originate from NY so to fly to DC is another flight, but perhaps better than amsterdam for a conncection.
i am going in May so weather should not be a problem anywhere (x my fingers).
i guess i can look at the early morning arrival as a chance to see j'burg and take a nap??? see the apartheid musuem, whatever.
glad to know that numbness occurs around 10 hours, that helps
amy
Dec 26th, 2008, 02:21 PM
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I prefer the non-stop flight (SAA).
There is less of a chance for loss of luggage. The flight home through AMS usually has a long layover which make the trip very long. Jet lag will not be so much of a problem going to Africa.
cj
There is less of a chance for loss of luggage. The flight home through AMS usually has a long layover which make the trip very long. Jet lag will not be so much of a problem going to Africa.
cj
Dec 26th, 2008, 06:17 PM
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I've done all of the above and more flying from California. At least you are several hours closer and one connecting flight by being in NY. Anyway, I've about concluded that the best flight(s) is the one with the least total travel time. And with a departure at a reasonable time of day, i.e. not 6am, anything after 10am including late pm like midnight.
Jet lag hits us randomly so we really don't plan around it. But definitely do arrive at least a day early. In case any kind of problem with flight into JNB. I don't want to miss a couple of nights at that $1,000 a night safari camp due to a botched up arrival. Rather miss a couple of nights at say Kruger. And we like using Kruger at our leisure to recover from the flights and get "warmed up" for the other camps. YMMV
regards - tom
ps - we've got to get flights for Sep 2009, LAX to JNB. Probably start working on it in couple of months. So very interested in any discussions like this.
Jet lag hits us randomly so we really don't plan around it. But definitely do arrive at least a day early. In case any kind of problem with flight into JNB. I don't want to miss a couple of nights at that $1,000 a night safari camp due to a botched up arrival. Rather miss a couple of nights at say Kruger. And we like using Kruger at our leisure to recover from the flights and get "warmed up" for the other camps. YMMV
regards - tom
ps - we've got to get flights for Sep 2009, LAX to JNB. Probably start working on it in couple of months. So very interested in any discussions like this.
Dec 26th, 2008, 07:11 PM
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Re Jet lag. Isn't it East bound travel that is usually worse? Essentially because you are losing time.....
I think everybody handles Jet lag differently ...... so, it entirely depends on the induvidual.
I think everybody handles Jet lag differently ...... so, it entirely depends on the induvidual.
Dec 26th, 2008, 10:11 PM
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SAA from JFK (?) to JNB is NOT non-stop, right? Only the flight from IAD to JNB is non-stop, or has it changed?
Anyway, you stop in Dakar(?) for about an hour. And I tell you that hour seems like two hours. You can not get off of the plane. I've done twice the SAA round trip, JFK/JNB/JFK. And next time I'm going to try, again, going to LHR or AMD or ? and then down to JNB. I think maybe those couple of hours off the plane there will be a welcome break.
And no, although we haven't tried it, I don't like the idea of staying overnight around LHR or AMD before the next flight to JNB. To me that is like starting the journey twice and "starting" is one of the major aggravations of air travel.
Check again that non-stop NYC to JNB. A "direct" flight is not same as "non-stop". And please somebody tell me if that has changed and it is truly now non-stop - both directions. Perhaps it is non-stop one direction and Dakar stop the other direction?
regards - tom
Anyway, you stop in Dakar(?) for about an hour. And I tell you that hour seems like two hours. You can not get off of the plane. I've done twice the SAA round trip, JFK/JNB/JFK. And next time I'm going to try, again, going to LHR or AMD or ? and then down to JNB. I think maybe those couple of hours off the plane there will be a welcome break.
And no, although we haven't tried it, I don't like the idea of staying overnight around LHR or AMD before the next flight to JNB. To me that is like starting the journey twice and "starting" is one of the major aggravations of air travel.
Check again that non-stop NYC to JNB. A "direct" flight is not same as "non-stop". And please somebody tell me if that has changed and it is truly now non-stop - both directions. Perhaps it is non-stop one direction and Dakar stop the other direction?
regards - tom
Dec 27th, 2008, 03:31 AM
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Tom,
SAA flight from JFK stops in Dakar both ways. SAA flight from IAD is non-stop on the way over and a stop in Dakar on the return. They are using larger equipment on the Dulles flight so no need for refueling.
cj
SAA flight from JFK stops in Dakar both ways. SAA flight from IAD is non-stop on the way over and a stop in Dakar on the return. They are using larger equipment on the Dulles flight so no need for refueling.
cj
Dec 27th, 2008, 05:32 AM
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Well, if it's 11:30am, arriving next day 8:30am, treat it like as if arriving Europe in the morning.
After hotel check-in, get out into the daylight to reset your body clock; stay up as long as possible and as close to your normal evening sleeptime... you should be okay.
If the flight has a stop, it's 1/hr to allow paxs for Senegal to deplane, refuel and then on your way. It'll be dark when you land in Dakar, so won't see much of anything and you're not permitted to get off, but can at least stretch your legs. Then up-n-away to JNB.
Personally, I wouldn't travel to Dullas, to connect to a non-stop; even if only 1/hr from JFK... you have a layover (like the stop at Dakar). Besides, in previous research I've found the flight prices out of Dullas are often more expensive than from JFK.
After hotel check-in, get out into the daylight to reset your body clock; stay up as long as possible and as close to your normal evening sleeptime... you should be okay.
If the flight has a stop, it's 1/hr to allow paxs for Senegal to deplane, refuel and then on your way. It'll be dark when you land in Dakar, so won't see much of anything and you're not permitted to get off, but can at least stretch your legs. Then up-n-away to JNB.
Personally, I wouldn't travel to Dullas, to connect to a non-stop; even if only 1/hr from JFK... you have a layover (like the stop at Dakar). Besides, in previous research I've found the flight prices out of Dullas are often more expensive than from JFK.
Dec 27th, 2008, 09:08 AM
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yes, i just checked there is a refueling stop in Dakar, (can you still sleep thru the refueling stop???) but they post the flight time as being 15 hours there and 17 back (i assume due to the jet stream makes the flight outbound shorter.
so my luggage could get off in Dakar?? that stinks.
i guess there is no perfect way to get there, unless i can get "Scotty to beam me over" and i will just go with the flow.
and as far as jet lag, for me it most annoying outbound, (whatever direction) as I am trying to do everything- and hey who cares if i come home and need to go to bed at 8pm, or stay up till 2am.
but glad for everyones thoughts, as i thought this would be a really boring post and no one would bother to respond, so again i thank you all.
Amy
so my luggage could get off in Dakar?? that stinks.
i guess there is no perfect way to get there, unless i can get "Scotty to beam me over" and i will just go with the flow.
and as far as jet lag, for me it most annoying outbound, (whatever direction) as I am trying to do everything- and hey who cares if i come home and need to go to bed at 8pm, or stay up till 2am.
but glad for everyones thoughts, as i thought this would be a really boring post and no one would bother to respond, so again i thank you all.
Amy
Dec 27th, 2008, 09:29 AM
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stop in dakar - you may sleep through the stop if you can but the landing and following commotion takes away from the smooth drone of flight as for getting up and stretching, no more so than while you're flying, you're still in that cramped cattle car. loosing luggage there, doubt it. be more concerned about jnb the only place we've had it delayed in the last 10 years and that was because they wanted to steal a small camera out of the bag hint, do not check in luggage any electronic gizzmo that may even hint of value they apparently x-ray and find it
last sep i flew lax to jfk (united) then on saa to jnb. and same return biggest problem for me was that the lax united flight was at 6am in morning means i should be at lax at 4am. i was, but not the united flight check in clerks they got in 4:15-4:30, can't blame them so following that flight a big, 6 hour i think, layover at jfk before the saa flight. from my house to hotel in jnb took 32 hours.
not a boring post this. like said above, i have to do this come sep and may try the other route
regards - tom
ps - decided to write this with no cap letters and sloppy punctuation easy/fun to read???
but the landing and following commotion takes away from the smooth drone of flight as for getting up and stretching, no more so than while you're flying, you're still in that cramped cattle car. loosing luggage there, doubt it. be more concerned about jnb the only place we've had it delayed in the last 10 years and that was because they wanted to steal a small camera out of the bag hint, do not check in luggage any electronic gizzmo that may even hint of value they apparently x-ray and find itlast sep i flew lax to jfk (united) then on saa to jnb. and same return biggest problem for me was that the lax united flight was at 6am in morning means i should be at lax at 4am. i was, but not the united flight check in clerks they got in 4:15-4:30, can't blame them
so following that flight a big, 6 hour i think, layover at jfk before the saa flight. from my house to hotel in jnb took 32 hours.not a boring post this. like said above, i have to do this come sep and may try the other route
regards - tom
ps - decided to write this with no cap letters and sloppy punctuation easy/fun to read???
Dec 27th, 2008, 09:48 AM
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Amy - unfortunately you've got no shot at sleeping through the Dakar stop. The lights come on, a few passengers deplane, the bathrooms are serviced, and they spray the plane with a lovely disinfectant. On the way home, you have the added joy of putting your carry on luggage on your lap for a security check.
If you leave at 11:30 eastern time, that would put you in Dakar at about 8pm to your body. Why not stay awake through the Dakar stop, then knock yourself out for the second portion of the flight?
Don't stress about it too much..it's over before you know it and the trip is absolutely worth it!!!!
cary999 - when we flew the IAD - JNB flight in August it actually stopped BOTH ways in Dakar as well (much to our surprise)
If you leave at 11:30 eastern time, that would put you in Dakar at about 8pm to your body. Why not stay awake through the Dakar stop, then knock yourself out for the second portion of the flight?
Don't stress about it too much..it's over before you know it and the trip is absolutely worth it!!!!
cary999 - when we flew the IAD - JNB flight in August it actually stopped BOTH ways in Dakar as well (much to our surprise)
Dec 27th, 2008, 10:07 AM
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Consider yourself lucky you're flying from NY! I live in Hawaii and to get to JNB it takes two and a half days of travel. Have gone east (HNL-SFO-JFK-JNB) and (HNL-SFO-LHR-JNB) and west (HNL-HKG-DBX-JNB). Going west was the worst with the long layovers in Hong Kong and Dubai. Shortest was through San Francisco and New York, though the layovers in London were a nice break.
Have flown SAA, British Airways, Emirates and Virgin. All about the same as far as economy comfort if there is such a thing. Go to seatguru.com for the best seats to choose.
Have flown SAA, British Airways, Emirates and Virgin. All about the same as far as economy comfort if there is such a thing. Go to seatguru.com for the best seats to choose.
Dec 27th, 2008, 12:18 PM
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I am not going to stress it, as I KNOW the long flight will get me to where i really really want to be.
Thanks for the SEATGURU site matnikstym
And yes, i really am thankful i live in NY for this flight. flying from Hawaii definitely sounds very very long, but hey, you live in Hawaii.
the info i have on the flight to JNB is that it makes 0 stops , but that it stops in Dakar JNB to JFK
his flight leaves on Sunday and arrives on Monday.
i copied this from Kayak.com site
South African
Flight 204 Departs: 11:35a
John F Kennedy Intl (JFK) Arrives: 8:45a
OR Tambo (JNB)
Coach | 343 (Wide-body Jet) | 15h 10m | 7969 miles |
Return – Sun 7 Jun 2009
This flight leaves on Sunday and arrives on Monday.
South African
Flight 203 Departs: 7:45p
OR Tambo (JNB) Arrives: 2:25a
Yoff (DKR)
Coach | 343 (Wide-body Jet) | 8h 40m | 4172 miles |
Layover in Dakar, Senegal (DKR) for 1h 00m
South African
Flight 203 Departs: 3:25a
Yoff (DKR) Arrives: 7:40a
John F Kennedy Intl (JFK)
Coach | 343 (Wide-body Jet) | 8h 15m | 3800 miles |
Amy
Thanks for the SEATGURU site matnikstym
And yes, i really am thankful i live in NY for this flight. flying from Hawaii definitely sounds very very long, but hey, you live in Hawaii.
the info i have on the flight to JNB is that it makes 0 stops , but that it stops in Dakar JNB to JFK
his flight leaves on Sunday and arrives on Monday.
i copied this from Kayak.com site
South African
Flight 204 Departs: 11:35a
John F Kennedy Intl (JFK) Arrives: 8:45a
OR Tambo (JNB)
Coach | 343 (Wide-body Jet) | 15h 10m | 7969 miles |
Return – Sun 7 Jun 2009
This flight leaves on Sunday and arrives on Monday.
South African
Flight 203 Departs: 7:45p
OR Tambo (JNB) Arrives: 2:25a
Yoff (DKR)
Coach | 343 (Wide-body Jet) | 8h 40m | 4172 miles |
Layover in Dakar, Senegal (DKR) for 1h 00m
South African
Flight 203 Departs: 3:25a
Yoff (DKR) Arrives: 7:40a
John F Kennedy Intl (JFK)
Coach | 343 (Wide-body Jet) | 8h 15m | 3800 miles |
Amy
Dec 28th, 2008, 03:26 AM
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Hari is absolutely right: each individual will deal with jet lag differently.
If I'm headed on safari from the US east coast, I prefer to stop over in Europe for a day or two. This lets my body/brain's circadian rhythm adjust to the different time zone, and I can sleep/nap whenever I want to. The flight to Africa (day flight to east Africa, overnight to southern Africa) then involves no time change.
If I'm headed on safari from the US east coast, I prefer to stop over in Europe for a day or two. This lets my body/brain's circadian rhythm adjust to the different time zone, and I can sleep/nap whenever I want to. The flight to Africa (day flight to east Africa, overnight to southern Africa) then involves no time change.
Dec 28th, 2008, 01:14 PM
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I've gone non-stop (except for the Dakar stop where you are on your feet most likely) to SA and I've also done 2 overnight flights, changing in London.
I like the SAA route better. Whenever there is a layover, there is always a chance for a problem or delay and a missed connection.
Re jetlag: The more I worry about it on the plane, the less I am able to sleep or just relax. Bring good earplugs. Sometimes I take a full Bonine pill, which prevents motion sickness but when I take a whole one it also makes me sleepy.
What is your itinerary upon arrival? Can you have some downtime then?
Don't worry about asking all sorts of questions. We all learn from other people's answers. That's a major focus of a forum like this.
I like the SAA route better. Whenever there is a layover, there is always a chance for a problem or delay and a missed connection.
Re jetlag: The more I worry about it on the plane, the less I am able to sleep or just relax. Bring good earplugs. Sometimes I take a full Bonine pill, which prevents motion sickness but when I take a whole one it also makes me sleepy.
What is your itinerary upon arrival? Can you have some downtime then?
Don't worry about asking all sorts of questions. We all learn from other people's answers. That's a major focus of a forum like this.
