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Advice on Botswana itinerary

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Old May 11th, 2008, 06:49 PM
  #21  
 
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Thanks, Johan - yes, that can be a problem with large prides and certainly not nearly enough to justify the price point!

Also very excieted about the Chobe and seeing Jonah again!

Rgds
Hari
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Old May 12th, 2008, 02:45 AM
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It is your first safari, Botswana is "the choice".
Are you going there like you would go to Paris, London or any other touristic destination, or are you having a strong interest in nature and wildlife. If you are from the first category, Wilderness safaris is a fair choice, though? They are the biggest and the most expensive, but not the only ones. It is a big "sausage machine", the guides are excellent, the food is good, the lodges are more than comfortable and some are looking like a palace, justifying the price difference. I personnally do not like them, it is not corresponding to my philosophy of the bush.
If you are from the second category, perhaps you are less concentrated on excessive luxury and looking for less expensive prices. The other excellent companies are sanctuary lodges with Chief's Camp (Mombo area), Stanley's camp, Baines' camp and Chobe Chilwero (www.sanctuarylodges.com), the Kwando camps (Lagoon, Lebala, Kwara and Little Kwara, Desert and Delta (Savuti Safari Lodge and Camp Morem). Xakanaxa camp and Pom Pom Camp are also 2 excellent camps. Chiefs' Island is a fantastic area for all animals, and if you want to go there, Chief's Camp is +/- 20% cheaper than Mombo. But I think that you should find all the species, but the rhino, elsewhere.
If you are strictly interested in wildlife, do not go to Jack's and San, except if you want to see meerkats or aardvark. I made about 15 travels to Botswana and my favourite area is the Kwando/Linyanti/Savute region, most particularly the Selinda/Kwando part. It is a great place for wild dogs, cheetahs, lions, elephants and buffaloes. There are also good chances there to see sable and roan. If I had to choose between Mombo and Selinda, I'll go for Selinda. Xakanaxa and Kwara are good places for leopard.
Also do not move too much, stay at least 3 to 4 nights at each place.
If you want to see the falls, go for a half day trip from Chobe, though I think that August/September is not the right moment to go. Indeed the falls are very spectacular in May, just after the rains.
There is also an other alternative which should be less expensive, a mobile safari. A luxurious mobile safari will cost you for 8 days about 4250 USD/person. This is the best way to really feel the spirit of the bush. There are several companies in Maun, like Capricorn mobile safaris, proposing this type of safari.
You obviously have one agent in your country. I think you should try to contact a local agent in Botswana or South Africa. Perhaps prices would be better.
If you want some more information, please let me know, I can give you the address of a reliable company in South Africa I have been in contact with since more than 10 years.
If it is urgent, please do it before May, 15 because I will be for 2 weeks in he Pantanal, another great place for wildlife
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Old May 12th, 2008, 03:17 AM
  #23  
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Walrus,

Would be interesting to hear your thoughts about the following issues/questions:

Vic Falls: Although not as impressive as after the rains, I find it more comfortable to visit them in August than just after the rains (too much spray).

WS vs other companies: Is there such a huge price difference between the classic WS camps and the ones you mentioned? (F.e.Lebala vs Savuti)

Wouldn't you consider Chief's camp/Chobe Chilwero over the top given the accomodation and the facilities on offer?

Do you think that mobile trips are a great way to go for people who are not that familiar with the bush? I personnaly think that it is a great way to go but it's definitely not everyone's cup of tea.

How do you decide which camps to go to?


Greetz,

Johan

 
Old May 12th, 2008, 05:51 AM
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Hello Johan,

Vic Falls : If the rain season was very important like it was this year from what I heard, of course the spray can be a problem in May and it will be OK in August. If the rain season was poor, then it is important to visit the falls in May or June. At least when you visit water falls you want to see water. And if you decide to go on the scenery flight with the helicopter, then definetely May/June is better.
WS price an accomadation : If you go to the bush for the accomodation and facilities, of course WS or companies marketted by WS(Selinda since it was bought by the Joubert and Khama) are probably the best. If you go for wildlife and you are not really focused on accomodation and facilities, but more on flexibility, wildlife, relationship, bush atmosphere,...., you go somewhere else. I can understand that people, who decided to go to the bush for a ones in a life time trip, will choose a place that is giving them something that is very close of their usual surroundings in terms of safety, lodging and food.
There is a difference of price of 15 to 25%. Chief'Camp is about 1250 USD while Mombo is about 1500 USD.
Mobile trips : Mobile trips are a great way to go for people who are not familiar with the bush, but only for people who are openminded and not afraid of living a completely different experience than the one the are daily living at home. There are also diferent products that goes from groups (8/10 persons in a big vehicle) to luxurious mobile safaris in a 4x4 (2 to 4 persons).
Mobile safaris are giving you the opportunity to go to Central Kalahari and Nxaï Pan (great place for lions).
I choose my camps taking into consideration their location (mostly Selinda/kwando)but also the relation I have with staff, manager (for example Nigel and his american wife Stephanie at Pom Pom)

Regards

Mike


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Old May 12th, 2008, 06:05 AM
  #25  
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Walrus,

I have to agree with what you have said regarding choice of camps.Like a lot of people on this forum the switch to mobiles is very appealing if only to get back to the wild feeling these sort of trips had in the past, plus it is of course considerably cheaper. I have one planned for CKGR an the pans next March and am currently setting one up for Zimbabwe and Mozambique.

I hope you enjoy your trip to the Pantanal that is on my must do list.Would you be kind enough to let us know who you are using to organise this?
 
Old May 12th, 2008, 06:48 AM
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Hi Mike,

Couple of quick questions - what about Chief's camp justifies the $1250 price tag? Yup agree that Mombo is over-priced right now, but, the same applies to Chief's doesn't it? On the other hand, I'm starting to think - all of these camps are over-priced if I can see them on a mobile safari. And, I'm not even looking for anything fancy, so would probably pick a mobile operator based on guiding factors .....

Yes, agree - relationship with guides and staff is very very important element on safari and something that is usally the tipping point towards my final decision. Unfortuantely, staff turnover is a huge issue these days.

Would you still consider the Selinda as a big game hot spot?

Rgds

Hari
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Old May 12th, 2008, 06:50 AM
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sorry - typo

Meant to read "If i can see the animals on a mobile safari .......etc etc."
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Old May 12th, 2008, 07:26 AM
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I like the idea of staying at Chobe and doing a day to the falls better than staying at the falls and doing a day at Chobe. The evening cruise on the Chobe River is outstanding!

If wildlife is the focus then staying in Chobe is best. There are loads of things you can do in Vic Falls and a half day visit would not permit time to do them. You can fly over the falls in various forms of transportation, you can float on the river in 5 rapids or an easy raft, there is bungee jumping, opportunities to view the falls from both Zim and Zam. Plus at Matetsi, you also have wildlife viewing opportunities which are better than other places. But if those activities are not of interest to you, I'd opt for Chobe.

I believe Xigera is much better for water activites, but I think you could still get a little boat/water activity at LV, even in Aug, and your land animals would be most likely more abundant. You are guaranteed a 10-15 minute boat transport to/from LV because it is on an island. You may decide that is sufficient water fun. As Johan says, you will not see as much from the water. But when you are in the delta it seems a shame not to experience it from the water for at least a short time.

If the non-Wilderness camps offered a heap of savings, I'd forget Wilderness and go with them.
When I've checked prices I have not seen great savings by using Kwando or Sanctuary camps, which are also very reputable and would provide an outstanding experience.

Mobiles are good too. Plenty comfortable if you did a Wilderness or similar mobile. I did one quite some time ago and loved it. I went with a friend who was on her first safari and more of a city loving gal than I am. She had a great time too. In the future, that may be the only way I can afford Botswana. While wildlife would be good, I think your odds a better at the permanent camp options you are tossing around.

Skimmer/Johan, Did you see equal wildlife predator action at Chitabe to equal Mombo? I have not been to Mombo in almost a decade and I really enjoyed Chitabe (extending my stay), but Chitabe was no Mombo.

Some of you are talking about the <b>Pantanal.</b> That's a new favorite topic of mine and I am making plans to return. Feel free to email about the <b>Pantanal</b> and Minas Gerais or bring it up on the Latin America forum. I'm always searching for <b>Pantanal</b> over there and coming up empty and disappointed.
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Old May 12th, 2008, 07:53 AM
  #29  
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Mike,

Thanks for your answers.

As being on safari in Botswana for many times, I can't say that in general WS classic camps focus more on accomodation/facilities compared to other companies who offer lodging in the same price range.

As you probably know Chobe Chilwero and Chief's camp both offers spa treatment and from what I read on their website it's one of their selling points.

Like Hari stated most of the camps are quite expensive and it doesn't look like this is gonna change in the future (topic discussed in previous threads before).

Safari is people's business and for that reason if you have the choice between two similar areas, the human factor is critical.

If you want to do a more affordable safari to Northern Botswana I would recommend the following:

a mobile safari to:

- Moremi Game Reserve (3 to 4 days at two different camping spots - so 6 to 8 days in total);

- a stay in one the permanent camps in the Linyanti/Selinda/Kwando area (4 days);

- 2 days in Chobe with main focus on boating.

I haven't been to the CGKR/Nxai/Makgadikgadi - I will do so in November to have a look what the area is about - the plan is to do a trip in depth in 2009.

Greetz,

Johan





 
Old May 12th, 2008, 08:18 AM
  #30  
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Lynn,

If you look in terms of general game, Mombo is hard to beat. (zebra/red lechwe/impala/giraffe/...)

I didn't find the predator sightings (Chief's camp/Mombo) more spectacular than the ones I witnessed in Chitabe and I visited both areas on several occasions.

Especially with the big lion prides around, other predator sightings aren't that plentiful like f.e. 10 years ago.

Last year, I didn't see any dogs in Chitabe (they denned in Santawani). So I don't know what it is gonna be this year.

If you want to reduce costs on safari, the first thing I would do is to skip the premium camps as they are cheaper alternatives to see the same species.

F.e. why go to f.e. a premium camp in the Linyanti to see elephants if you can see them while based at f.e. Chobe Safari lodge.




 
Old May 12th, 2008, 08:45 AM
  #31  
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as they are cheaper alternatives should be
as there are cheaper alternatives.
 
Old May 12th, 2008, 09:08 AM
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Sniktawk,

You can also do, if you feel you can do it, and that is probably the way you will do it for Zimbabwe(Gonarezou??) and Mozambique (Gorongoza??), a self-driving mobie safari. You rent one or several 4x4 in South Africa, depending on the dimension of your group, like I did some years ago and I will probably do again in 2009. In this case, you have to hire the services of a free-lance guide. THis also not too expensive.
To go to the Pantanal, I am using a local tour operator(www.opendoortur.com.br)in Campo Grande. Those people are dutch and more efficient than locals. But this time, I will stay at the same place, Fazenda Barranco Alto, in South Pantanal. The 2 previous times I've been there, I built with the owners a friendly relationship. So as they are speaking several languages, which is not the case with a lot of fazenda owners,I booked directly to them without going through the tour operator.
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Old May 12th, 2008, 09:24 AM
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There are still lots of relative great values out there but you have to look beyond some of the traditional powerhouses to find them.

Mapula Lodge that I flat out just preferred to the WS and Kwando camps that I have been to costs almost 40% less than WS Classic camps during high season.

Linynati Bush Camp is about 25% less during the high season. Even greater savings if you do their mobile walking safari which I would expect to be amongst the top 2 or 3 walking opportunities in Botswana.

In October the new Sankuyo Plains Camp will open in an outstanding area that has been the center piece for Botswana wild dog and lion studies and it will be about 25% less.

Deception Valley Lodge that delivers a top end product also 25% less during high season.

CC Africa's seasonal camps Chobe Under Canvas and Savute Under Canvas are $550 high season and $350 low season (which I believe gives you the cheap rate during the prime time in Savute).

Grassland Bushman for under $500 in high season for an outstanding bushman experience and one of the only places you can ride horses.

I have not been to all of these but I believe they are all likely high quality products and saving 25% during the high season on just an 8 night safari would be about $3,200 and with that money I would take advantage of the Kalahari Summer Special and a couple nights at Savute Under Canvas be back for a 9 or 10 night green season safari that can be had for about $325 pppn including internal air, a price which even mobiles will have trouble matching.

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Old May 12th, 2008, 09:26 AM
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HariS,

Of course, Chief's is also overpriced
I still consider Selinda and Kwando (I consider to be part of the same region) as my favourite spot in Botswana. Every time I have been there mostly in May and October/November, I stayed 8 to 10 days. I always saw wild dogs, lions and cheetahs. Not a lot of leopards in the Selinda but well in Kwando. Skimmer is asking why go in the Linyanti if you can see elephants from a boat in Chobe, because in the Linyanti when in September/October you have your sundowners along the spillway or close to the lagoon, you are surrounded by the elephants. Besides this remote area is still very pristine.
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Old May 12th, 2008, 09:28 AM
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Meant to say that $3,200 savings would be for a couple traveling together.
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Old May 12th, 2008, 09:52 AM
  #36  
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Mike,

I have been in the Selinda/Kwando/Linyanti quite often and my main reason of going there will be wild dogs and cheetah.
I enjoy everything of course but chances of seeing these predators are quite good.

Seeing elephants around the spillway is impressive but I wouldn't pay big money just to see them there if I can have good sightings of ellies from a small boat in Chobe.

In general, private concessions are interesting if you have a strong intrest in predators.(driving off-road) I wouldn't go to them if I was only interested in birds and general game.



Greetz,

Johan





 
Old May 12th, 2008, 11:23 AM
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Here is Predator's Mapula report, along with other places. Mapula had tremendous wildlife as the report shows. I'd love to visit. Maybe you too, <b>MMark14</b>

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35092404

A 40% savings in high season is substantial. I did not think it was that much in high season.
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Old May 12th, 2008, 11:47 AM
  #38  
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Thanks to everyone -- Altering my itinerary per your suggestions has saved us $6800.00 (per couple)!!
We now have;
San camp --3 nights
Savuti-----2 nights(would love 1 more night there)
Little Vumbra---2 nights
Chitabe---- 3 nights
Victoria Falls Safari Lodge --2 nights

It is amazing how much of a difference switching out Mombo, Jack's, and Selinda actually made. I did suggest Chobe instead of the Falls; however my agent explained that we would be having a cultural experience there with a Zimbabwe guide. The people are definitely of interest to me as well so we decided to keep that part of the trip as is. I'm ok with not staying at premium camps, but not sure we would be ready for mobile camping. The only thing I do regret is not being able to stay three nights in Savuti.
Please continue to comment as this is not written in stone as of yet, although I will be deciding asap.

I think we will have a wonderful adventure thanks to all of your expertise.
Marcia
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Old May 12th, 2008, 11:56 AM
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Marcia: that is fantastic, a huge savings. Every spot on that itinerary should be wonderful, still plenty luxurious and more importantly in very good areas for gameviewing and activities. I think you will be amazed with that trip.

Obviously it is always nice to have longer stays so being able to add one night to Savuti and Little Vumbura would be ideal and highly recommended if possible. If not and you are out of time that's that and you will love the trip.
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Old May 12th, 2008, 02:11 PM
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Mmark14,

More days are always better but what you have will be a terrific itinerary.
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