scottyP

I could use some help and provide a warning for travelers in Beijing. I was "taken" by some locals I met in the Forbidden City. They struck up a conversation in English and then invited to show me around old Beijing and take me to a tea house for an authentic tea ceremony. I hate to admit to being so gullible, but we went and, confused by the good time and exchange rate, ended up paying $450 for a tea ceremony for three and 100g of tea. Beware!

I am contesting the charge on my credit card and I need help. The credit card company is asking for a "qualified opinion" as to what a reasonable charge is for such a tea ceremony. Can Anyone share with me where I can find something on the net that would list the cost of a typical tea ceremony in Beijing? Or at least let me know what you paid for a legit tea ceremony. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

ScottyP

Marija

Unfortunately, the cost of a tea ceremony depends on the quality of the tea you are drinking. Some types of teas are incredibly expensive. It's going to be difficult to show that you didn't drink a premier cru of teas.

scottyP

We drank one pot of four different teas at a run of the mill teahouse in old Beijing. Are you saying even that could actually cost $450 US?

Marija

I'm sure you didn't actually drink $450 worth of tea. However, you might have to show that you couldn't possibly have done so. Is there any chance that this is a mistake where 450 RMB appeared as $450 on your card? A tea house visit to the oldest teahouse in Shanghai, including "tea snacks" was something like $20 for the two of us. We did go to a tea house in Hangzhou and insisted on drinking the best Longjing tea they had. It was like $20 per person. The tea house waitress, who spoke some English, made very sure we understood that this was very expensive tea before we ordered. (Unfortunately, our Western palates couldn't taste the fine nuisances of exceptional tea. Now we know!)

scottyP

I wish this was just a mistake. In fact, I wonder if anyone else has fallen prey to this scam. My hotel front desk clerk knew EXACTLY what happened to me. When I told him. And Ironically, I had had a young couple the night before offer me the same invitation to a tea house in Tianamenn square and I turned them down because I was tired. I must look like an easy mark!

Marija

Hope your credit card company nails them! Let us know how it turns out.

Neil_Oz

Ouch. US$450 is more than the two of us spent on food and drink in a whole week in Beijing. I guess the message is that one should ignore all unsolicited approaches from helpful locals offering to take you somewhere in a dodgy unlicenced cab, a trishaw or on foot, handle your baggage, show you some nice art works, cure your ills with traditional Chinese medicines or anything else.

I don't drink tea, Chinese or any other kind, so while the amount is clearly obscenely extortionate I have no idea what a reasonable number would be. I do know that you can buy a 500ml bottle of Tsingtao beer for as little as 2 yuan (US$0.25), if that helps. And you can certainly have a very good dinner for three for Y300 (US$35), wine excluded.

bkkmei

hi scotty
unfortunately this is one of the most common scams in Beijing. You could try asking at lonely planet thorn tree as they'll have a number of Beijing-dwellers. Although be prepared to be flamed.
Also http://www.chinese-forums.com/ usually is quite sensible.
My boss did the same and said he ended up paying 100 USD.

Lia

The "price of tea in China" can range from cheap to incredibly expensive however I find it hard to believe that your group could have consumed that much. There may be a creative way to resolve this dilemma (or catch a crook at their own game).

If the amount was charged to your credit card, then the credit card company (or you) should have a way to contact them. Have a friend write to them in English and tell them they were referred to them (probably best not to use your name since you are contesting the charge). Ask them to reply with a letter of their services and prices ranging from the least to the most expensive or request a price quote for the tea ceremony for three and 100g tea that you had. If they reply, you will have documentation to compare with your previous experience to determine if you were charged fairly. If they do not reply after several requests, then you have documentation to prove to the credit card company that you made every attempt to investigate the charge and you were indeed scammed by an illegitimate "business".

Also, if you have the 100g of tea and can identify the brand or type of tea, you can ask reputable tea shops in Beijing what they would charge for it plus a tea ceremony to get a "qualified opinion".

tatersalad

I’m surprised at this happening in Beijing. When I was there some years ago I was under the impression that there was no crime. The understanding was that they would execute pick-pockets and petty thieves every Saturday. These people may need to be more worried about being nailed by a firing squad than by a credit card company.

Richard1148

Scotty - Do you still have the credit card receipt? How much does it say you were charged? If it equates to $450 and you signed it, then you may be out of luck. I don't think being "confused by the good time and exchange rate" will get the bill revised to a lower amount.

PeterN_H

scottyP: Please write to me at pnhpublic at shaw dot ca and I will be happy to provide you or your credit card company with a qualified opinion that this was certainly a scam. (I'm the author, co-author, and/or editor of guides to Beijing for Cadogan, Frommer's, and Dorling Kindersley, and have also written on Beijing for everyone from Time to the Sunday Times. I'm familiar both with the numerous scams visited upon tourists, and the typical price of the 'tea ceremony'.)

NB: I will not discuss this matter further on this board (although I'd be happy to do so on The Oriental-List) nor will I reply to email on this matter from anyone except ScottyP.

agb

Same thing just happened to me day before yesterday coming out of the forbiden city. Feel so stupid, someone says lets have some tea, I don't even think the cost could be much, then I get a credit card charge in the hundreds.

yinyang

There was an article on a Finnish student magazine about the same trick that happened to 2 Finnish student boys in Beijing, Forbidden City, summer 2005.

After the boys noticed that they had been cheated (about 1 day after the cheating), they decided to go back to the Tea house. On the way there, they "hired" a Chinese girl to be their translator.

The Finnish boys decided to pretend the cheating was an "accident" i.e. they didn't "sued/insulted" the Chinese men at all but just said that there had happend some kind of "accident/misunderstanding".

And finally, they got back most of the money, in cash. Anyway, during the conversation, the Chinese girl had started to cry and the Finnish boys were a little bit amazed. Later on, the girl said that the Chinese men actually belong to some kind of "mafia". The mafia men had asked her name and that's why she had started to cry, she was worried about her safe. Anyway, it all ended happily. The boys got most of their money back and the Chinese girl - hopefully - is still alive...

bkkmei

but don't you think it's a bit weird that someone asks you to have tea with them?
I mean sure the girls are very pretty and charming, but
a) if they are offering a tourist service, wouldn't you check the price out or
b) if it's a friendly gesture, wouldn't you wonder why (unless you look like Tom Cruise of course!)
I know in China you can meet incredibly friendly lovely people just by chatting to them but in your home country, a stranger comes up to you and starts inviting you out immediately - would you go?

Paul_H

I might be a bit slow off the mark here, but how exactly is the credit card company at fault?

rkkwan

No one says the credit card company is at fault. But all CC companies have some kind of consumer protection policies. Whether they'll take on this case, I don't know.

As for people falling into these scams, well, I think it's due to two main reasons. One, some travelers still have a "romanitized" notion that China is this long-oppressed country that everybody works long hard hours to make a tiny wage. They didn't realize it's the most capitalistic country in the world where everything's about making money.

Second, many westerners have absolutely no idea that tea can be an expensive luxury item, where prices can be so high. I mean, there's no "super rare coffee bean grown from just a few plants in the world in a far remote valley deep in Columbia" that can cost hundreds of dollars for a cup, right? But such things do exist for Chinese tea. It's a very foreign concept.

bkkmei

yes, good points

there's also an intense amount of flattery going on here... I've heard of this scam many times already, and it's young pretty girls picking on foreign guys.
It's not just in Beijing, but very common in Shanghai on Nanjing Road too. My dad used to live there and he looks foreign (even though he's Chinese) and the girls were always hassling him.

Neil_Oz

One day in Shanghai's Old Town we gave in to temptation and went into an (overpriced) American ice cream parlour. Soon I became aware of a smiling old man waving at us through the window, and next thing he'd entered the shop, sat down with us and commenced a rambling conversation in excellent English - something to do with sport, a subject of zero interest to either of us. While I wondered how we could politely get rid of him (at this stage I was still thinking of him as an extreme example of Chinese gregariousness) he went into his sales pitch and yes, it was tea. Fortunately neither of us drink the stuff in any of its forms, so it became much easier to give him the brush-off.

You'll also find attractive and well-spoken girls in Beijing's central tourist spots targeting mainly Western males, masquerading as art students and touting their own work. Ignore.

Emvee

I had the same thing happen to me on 5th Feb. Walking around the Forbidden City I was approached by a young man and his 'uncle' we had a good conversation. There was no immediate pressure to go for tea and they gave me a tour around a few sites before it was suggested. As a piece of social engineering I think it was masterful. Do I feel stupid? Yes! Did I feel I was being fleeced? Not until I got the bill - I was actually enjoying myself for two whole hours in their company. BTW I'm male so it wasn't a case of my being attracted to them.

The cost of the ceremony ($200 plus teas) was charged to my credit card twice but it is so obvious I don't think I have problems getting the second charge removed.

I did check the internet afterwards and found that these ceremonies can be expensive but not as much as I had paid.

I agree with rkkwan "They didn't realize it's the most capitalistic country in the world where everything's about making money."

Also - another one that I managed to avoid is to be invited to an art exhibition in the Forbidden City itself. You will be shown many pictures by a student artist who says he painted them himself and after admiring them will ask you which ones to buy. I just walked out.

I blame the jet lag for lowering my defences.

emvee