pinkdogmb

I am planning to go to Beijing in Feb. with my 14 year old daughter. We've never been to China. Should we book with a tour package? Do you think we can manage with a guide arranged through our hotel once we get there? Any recommendations for a comfortable hotel? We'd like to go to Xian too. Has anyone arranged a day trip (or over night) to Xian? How much would it cost? How did you do it? Would the two of us (females) be safe at the Great Wall etc.? Thanks so much for any advice and recommendations!

gard

Hi

My wife and I went to China in March last year. We went there on our own and we didn't have a tour package. But we were able to see and do quite a lot during the two weeks we were there. We started in Beijing and we had some great days checking out the Great Wall (at Simatai), the Forbidden City etc. Then we took a night train to Xi'an to see the terracotta warriors and finally we took a flight to Hong Kong. I have posted a trip report with pictures on my homepage http://gardkarlsen.com. I'm sure you will be able to find some useful information there. If not get in touch and I'll do my best to answer your questions

Regards
Gard
Stavanger, Norway

rkkwan

Xi'an is about 1,000km (600 miles) from Beijing, and you can't really do a day-trip there. You can take overnight trains between the two cities, or you can fly. The "soft-sleeper" (i.e. first class) trains have 4 people in a cabin, so if there are two of you, you will have to share the cabin with strangers. Cost is about the same as flying, but you save a night of hotel each way. I believe the train fare is around US$55 per person, each way, though I have to double check.

easytraveler

Strongly suggest that if this is your first trip to China that you look into an all inclusive group tour such as Pacific Delight. You will not save too much on your own over their group rates, but you will be spared a lot of the hassles.

I have friends and relatives who are Chinese-Americans, who speak Chinese, and who take the Pacific Delight tours and highly recommend them.

Let the tour people take care of all the arrangements and the kinks that are bound to occur. It helps a great deal for you by taking out the headaches of all trip arrangements in a never-before visited country and, perhaps, when not speaking the language.

For example, if you plan to take the train - the train tickets are printed in Chinese only and you have to know what the Arabic numerals refer to (not that difficult, once you know!), you have to surrender your tickets after boarding, but on deboarding you have to exchange the tags back for your tickets. THEN to get out of the RR station, you have to insert the ticket into a exit machine before you can exit. All these little things are not hard to master, but you have to know what to do to eliminate all the little headaches along the way. This all depends on your spirit of adventure and that of your daughter.

If you do choose to do it yourself, rkkwan's suggestion of the soft sleeper is an excellent one. Ask for the two upper berths or one lower and one upper together. The upper berths offer more privacy. The compartments are co-ed, but you shouldn't have to worry much on this count - you'll get a good night's rest on the soft sleeper. The only problem would be a snorer.

There are overnight "fast" trains (about 14-15 hours), which leaves Beijing/Xian in the early evening and gets to Xian/Beijing in the early morning.

Suggest that you spend at least one night in Xian and possibly two. Don't know your price range. Try asiahotels.com for relatively inexpensive recommendations.

China is probably on of the safest countries to travel in right now. However, the Chinese are very aggressive in trying to separate you from your dollars, so if you are swamped with hawkers, just keep on walking as if they don't exist. Don't even wave them away with your hand because that would be acknowledging their presence.

I'm certain the China experts will chip in with their excellent recommendations.

Have fun! Enjoy your travels!

pinkdogmb

Thanks so much for the information! It's very helpful.

rkkwan

Sorry, forgot about this thread.

There are multiple overnight trains between Beijing and Xi'an each night. One "Z" train is non-stop with soft sleepers/seats only, and makes the 1,200km journey in 11.5 hours.

The other "T" trains have mixed soft/hard sleepers/seats. Takes about 13 hours.

Upper berths of softsleepers are about $49, lower about $51.

pinkdogmb

Thanks! I appreciate the specific information. Now I'm leaning more towards flying. I just think it will be easier for us on this trip. Any other travel tips are greatly appreciated!!!

Gianni

Hi,
i fully disagree what Easytravek wrote.
We have been to China for the first time last August, I went there with my Wife and our 16 year old Daughter.
We only book hotels before leaving Italy, some with a credit card confirmation (arrival and departure days) and others without confirming with c.c. using the CTRIP.COM website (very good service).
We have been to Shanghai, Suzhou, Luoyang, Xi'an and Bejing in 15 days using trains (3 time, all possible classes) and flying from Xi'an to Bejing. All tickets have been bought in China directly.
Ok, the languaga could be a problem BUT with a good guide book and some help in hotels... you can do everything only using a normal attention and caution as everywhere in the world.
We organized on our own trips to Graet Wall, Terracotta Army, Caves, Tonlgi... using taxis or buses.
In Bejing we stayed at Marcopolo hotel, not very cheap (150$ per day with breakfast, extra bed and service) but very good.

Let me know if you need any more info.
We enjoied our trip really very much, we are already planning our next year vacations .... to Yunnan!

Grazie, arrivederci.

Gianni (Milan, Italy)

Neil_Oz

I can't comment about Xi'an (other than a feeling that you'd be better to fly), but we got back yesterday from our first visit to China and there's no need at all for a guide in Beijing. The city is easily navigable if you make good use of Beijing's cabbies, whom we found generally efficient, good-humoured and invariably honest. Just hail them in the street, first having asked your hotel to write down your destination in Chinese characters. Always carry your hotel's card for the return trip, and buy the readily-available tourist map showing streets and attractions in both Chinese and English. Avoid unlicenced taxis (you may be approached by touts at places like the Summer Palace), and also shun rickshaws and anyone offering to handle your bags at airports. You'll

Leaving the Great Wall aside, the most remote major attraction is the Summer Palace, and that cost us 45 yuan (less than US$6) by taxi. Walking distances tend to seem longer than the map suggested, but make a point of walking around at least one of the old hutong areas - you could combine that with the Back Lakes. Check out Beihai and Jinshang Parks also, bith close to the Forbidden City.

It's also worthwhile getting a Dorling & Kindersley phrase book and studying the pronunciation guide. On one occasion I left the hotel card behind and my pathetic attempts to name our street eventually taught me that you get a lot further by saying Dong Si Shi Tiao street as something like "doong s' sh' tiao". It does make a difference. That aside, even a not-very-well-pronounced "hello", "thanks" or "goodbye" in Mandarin is usually well-regarded. And learning the numerals is pretty easy too.

It was there, incidentally, that we saw our first packaged tourists, being led around like sheep by a flag-bearing guide charging them good money to do something that they could have managed (at their own pace) perfectly well by themselves. The next group we found at the National Museum in Tian'an Men Square - we'd been looking for the Museum of the Revolution and asked them what institution they were heading for. Incredibly, all that the three couples we spoke to knew was that it was "some kinda museum". When one pair started making crass remarks about Mao we made ourselves scarce.

I suggest a hotel in as central a position as possible. We stayed at a Chinese-owned 3-star place in Dong Si Shi Tiao and the only problem we had was trying to get a lead on the Chinese Acrobats' show - the English word "acrobat" stumped the duty English-speaker, nobody had a dictionary, and my sketched stick figures only raised the staff's already high stress levels. Be aware that many nominal English speakers have had little exposure to conversational English and are actually more comfortable with the written version. Try to simplify your requests and be patient, or you may place the staff member concerned in a position in which he/she feels they can't help you, and this can induce some distress. If you stay with one of the big international chains you may not have this problem.

As for eating, you need to search out restaurants with English menus, or at least pictures of the main dishes. We found that miming opening a menu and asking "Yingyu?" usually worked. We often lunched on cheap and good street stall food (kebabs, steamed buns and the like).

As for the Great Wall, we ended up taking a day tour from our hotel to Badaling and the Ming Tombs. This was OK as long as you didn't get suckered in by the shopping opportunities offered en route (especially the Oscar performances at the "Chinese Traditional Medicine Research Factory&quot. But then, we got a discount. We paid only Y160 pp, probably because the other guests at our hotel were all Chinese and wouldn't have coughed up the Y300 that the day-trippers from hotels like the Swissotel and Howard Johnson paid. But you'll find plenty of advice on DIY trips if you search this forum.

Neil_Oz

pinkdogmb, I forgot to say that my daughters spent a week in Beijing last February and found it so cold that the weather limited the duration of their outings. Australians, though, are in weather terms pretty spoilt - if you're from North America you may be better able to handle these conditions, but you'll certainly need to rug up.

pinkdogmb

To Gianni and Neil_Oz, Thanks for the info. You have mademe feelmorecomfortable doing this trip independently. We are from Los Angeles and are not used to the cold weather but looking forward to it!

Neil_Oz

By way of comparison with Gianni's hotel bill, we paid a bit less than US$70 at the 3-star Ping An Fu. Our first choice, the Bamboo Garden, was booked out. All the advice I've seen is that in off-season periods like February you'll pay a lot less if you don't book ahead but simply walk in to your preferred hotel and ask for a discount on the rack rate. When my daughters visited Beijing (in March) they got a reduction of about 40% without hesitation. You'd want arrive in daylight hours to feel comfortable doing that, and you may not want the hassle anyway, but I imagine that at that time of the year the chances of your being turned away due to lack of rooms would be about on par with the thermometer. No doubt you'd feel more at home in a 4/5-star hotel, but the difference would pay for a lot of classy meals.

LA weather is not too different to much of Australia, so you'll certainly find it cold. Very warm gloves and headgear are a must, I'm told.

cwn

To Neil-Oz, I injoyed your reply. We will be in Beijing in two weeks and I am still fine tuning things. How crowded was Badaling? Were you there during the week or on the week end? How long did you spend at the Summer Palace? Was it crowded? I can't decide if we should take the time for the SP or go back into the city and see other things there after the walk on the wall. We will have a driver and car for the trip to Badaling and are starting at 7am. Our time is limited so I want to make the most of it!

Neil_Oz

cwn, we went to Badaling on a week day and yes, it was pretty busy but not trampled-in-the rush stuff.

The Summer Palace is a very large piece of real estate comprising many buildings, gardens, lakeshores and forested areas, and we found many quiet areas by deviating from the apparently well-defined paths of the tour groups. We spent about 3 hours there, including a lunch break; we bought a lunch box at a place near the lakeshore, reasoning that several hundred Chinese couldn't be wrong. Unfortunately, we had to conclude that they were, another illusion shattered. But we did enjoy our wander around the Palace. I would think that 2 hours would be the bare minimum to make the visit worthwhile.

With a private driver and an early start you should have plenty of time for the Wall and the Summer Palace, but it will be a busy day and you'll probably feel like taking it easy when you get back to the city.

chinaplus

We took the train to Xian and it is too good an experience to miss. Soft sleeper a must. You will see much of the countryside before it gets dark. Bring your own food for the train ride. Be prepared for aggressive folks who want to carry your luggage at Beijing and Xian. Train station in Beijing is nicer than most I've visited in USA.
Your daughter is so fortunate to have this experience.
Consider visiting the Great Wall at Mutianyu. It is just a little farther and quieter. The guide books tell about a chain of Peiking duck restaurants. One is near the Forbidden City (well a few blocks north. That is quite an adventure also. Enjoy the planning. Enjoy the trip!

Neil_Oz

We ate at the well-known Liqun Roast Duck Restaurant, which is buried in a hutong district roughly SSE of Tien An Men Square off Qianmendong Dajie(Qianmen East Avenue). We found it only after a comedy of errors involving a cabbie, a helpful old man who wrote down extensive directions for us (but in Chinese) and a larcenous rickshaw driver. As we arrived to find what seemed like half of Beijing already there, we must have done it the hard way - but if anyone is interested I can email the map from the back of their business card. It would be best to book ahead (6705 5578, 6702 5681) and reserve your duck.

If you can induce someone you meet up with to accompany you, that would be a good idea, as a whole duck with pancakes and garnishes between two people, even if one is a 14-year-old, doesn't leave much room for anything else (except in my case a few Tsingtao beers) and so makes for a more monotonous (albeit delicious) meal than would be the case with a group. It's an excellent, noisy eatery where the first thing you see is the ducks being cooked in a brick oven something like a traditional pizza oven. We didn't get the duck soup to round off the meal, which I think might have been the result of ordering confusion on my part.

Bchen

I am an American living in Beijing with kids.
I agree 100% NOT to book a tour. But chinese New Year is Feb 9th this year and that is a terrible tme to come. Train tickets are difficult to get as are flights. Anything bewteen Feb 1-14 will be a night mare!! Local Beijingers are rich these days and they can afford the soft sleepers and the flights. Many sites and restaaurants close as this is their biggest holiday.

Schools will be back in session end of feb and all the college kids across the country willbe returning..tickets impossible!

Aside from that, info others have posted seems good. I alwasy take the overnight train to Xian with visitors, leaving BJ WEST staion around 5-6pm and getting in in the early am (maybe 6-7am?)

Pick pockets are also more often than usual as many people need to bring money or presents back to their hometowns and can't afford to.

Don't mean to dissappoint you, but it is a very important thing to consider. if you can come earlier or later, it will be 100x better.

dfross

I am responding to BChen. My daughter is studying next semester (Feb/Jun 2005) in Nanjing. We are planning to take her over and had planned to go to Shanghai about Jan 26 for 5 days or so; then fly/train to Xian for 2-3 days about Feb 2 or 3, then train to Nanjing by Feb 8 to get her settled in. Thought we would spend the New Year in Nanjing. Your email has me concerned about travel from Shanghai to Xian in Feb and back to Nanjing. Can you give me some advice. Would we be better arriving Shanghai later, going to Nanjing about Feb 7/8, leaving daughter there, and after Feb 12, just my wife and I going to Xian? Is it really that impossible to get plane tickets,train tickets? Thanks.

raylinko

I chose to go with a tour package mainly because of the language problem and the cost for 10 days in 5 star hotels all travel within China, all meals and guides for $1100 appealed to me. The only drawback is that China East Airlines will not allow members of a tour group to get seat assignments prior to arriving at the departure gate. That's a 12 hour flight from the west coast! So, you can imagine the crush to get a good seat.

Neil_Oz

raylinko, that tour does sound like a pretty good deal. We travelled independently, but it's very much a "horses for courses" call, and for many people the right tour package is the best option. The only reservation I have is that a combination of 4/5-star Western-type hotels, insufficient free time and being surrounded by fellow English-speakers has the potential to hermetically insulate you from the country and the people. There's also the risk, well canvassed on this forum, of being constantly exposed to overpriced "shopping opportunities" which deliver a commission to the guide. But I have no doubt that it produces a more relaxing trip.

I guess you're not individually responsible for your international travel with China Eastern, but on the off-chance (or for anyone else planning to fly with them) be aware that the DO enforce their reconfirmation rule (i.e., at least 72 hours before departure).

In general, we found China Eastern was competent, no more. They got us there, they got us back, but customer service was perfunctory - there's no reason for Singapore Airlines to start feeling nervous just yet.