Attn: Hawaii "Blue Bible" readers.
Jun 30th, 2004, 05:14 PM
#1
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Attn: Hawaii "Blue Bible" readers.
Hey everyone,
I own these books, I've bought these books for others and recommended them to others.
I have visited hawaii before and after the blue books. I have known places before their revelation, and I have enjoyed places and things because of their revelation.
Having their knowledge has excited me and dissappointed me, as I have discovered new places, and old places disrespectively trampled by unknowing tourists.
Because of this, I now feel a certain responsability. The authors recognized a need for a better travel guide and well, I wish I beat them to the punch! They want to share information for all.
However, we now realize that as wonderful as they are, they have made mistakes. Last December, I contacted them with my concern for their advice about Aquarium and FishBowl on Maui. They responded that they would look into it.
I feel that all who praise the "blue bible" as some of you like to refer it as...own a certain responsability to your recommendation. If you truly love the islands, than you can acknowledge that there have been mistakes made.
I ask you to take care in you advice to others, and contact the authors with your concerns. It is good to offer every inch of the islands to us tourists. However, it is not right to infringe on the privacy of its taxpayers or furhter endanger the fragile ecosystems, environment, and sacred hawaiin artifacts. Please, If you have visited the islands, take responsability.
Mahalo>
Other areas are opening up on Maui and other islands that need to be addressed.
I believe that it is their obligation to rethink and edit some of their advice. And it is our obligation to urge them to do so and others.
I own these books, I've bought these books for others and recommended them to others.
I have visited hawaii before and after the blue books. I have known places before their revelation, and I have enjoyed places and things because of their revelation.
Having their knowledge has excited me and dissappointed me, as I have discovered new places, and old places disrespectively trampled by unknowing tourists.
Because of this, I now feel a certain responsability. The authors recognized a need for a better travel guide and well, I wish I beat them to the punch! They want to share information for all.
However, we now realize that as wonderful as they are, they have made mistakes. Last December, I contacted them with my concern for their advice about Aquarium and FishBowl on Maui. They responded that they would look into it.
I feel that all who praise the "blue bible" as some of you like to refer it as...own a certain responsability to your recommendation. If you truly love the islands, than you can acknowledge that there have been mistakes made.
I ask you to take care in you advice to others, and contact the authors with your concerns. It is good to offer every inch of the islands to us tourists. However, it is not right to infringe on the privacy of its taxpayers or furhter endanger the fragile ecosystems, environment, and sacred hawaiin artifacts. Please, If you have visited the islands, take responsability.
Mahalo>
Other areas are opening up on Maui and other islands that need to be addressed.
I believe that it is their obligation to rethink and edit some of their advice. And it is our obligation to urge them to do so and others.
Jun 30th, 2004, 08:01 PM
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I use all the "blue bibles" by authors Dougherty and Fredman mainly because their maps are so well done. I think their restaurant reviews stink, LOL. There is a HUGE backlash against these guidebooks by Hawaii residents, lots of ongoing flack about how the authors promote trespassing and dangerous activities. There have been many critical articles written abiut these gudiebooks. The Nat'l Park Service has taken the books off their shelves.
I still think they are decent guidebooks, just dont be foolish and always respect the private property rights of residents as I am sure most Fodorites already do!
I still think they are decent guidebooks, just dont be foolish and always respect the private property rights of residents as I am sure most Fodorites already do!
Jul 1st, 2004, 11:14 AM
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Amen!
I believe I posted a few years back that a few of my local friends hated that book due to all the reasons mentioned.
I think it's the one thing that bummed me out after this last trip (besides all the darn suprise friends and relatives spending too much time there!) were the cigarette butts/trash on the NaPali/Polihale Coasts, discorteous drivers in traffic jams thru Lihue, Kapaa, Wailua...and people who think because it looks like paradise you don't have to use common sense when going in/near the OCEAN!
Sorry. Had to vent. Carry on.
I believe I posted a few years back that a few of my local friends hated that book due to all the reasons mentioned.
I think it's the one thing that bummed me out after this last trip (besides all the darn suprise friends and relatives spending too much time there!) were the cigarette butts/trash on the NaPali/Polihale Coasts, discorteous drivers in traffic jams thru Lihue, Kapaa, Wailua...and people who think because it looks like paradise you don't have to use common sense when going in/near the OCEAN!
Sorry. Had to vent. Carry on.
Jul 1st, 2004, 12:40 PM
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gyppielou wrote:
"However, we now realize that as wonderful as they are, they have made mistakes. Last December, I contacted them with my concern for their advice about Aquarium and FishBowl on Maui. They responded that they would look into it."
What were the mistakes they made regarding these areas, gyppielou? And did they ever respond - it's been over six months since you alerted them...
Kal, you couldn't really be blaming bad drivers and foolish swimmers on the Blue Book, could you? I don't get the connection!
"However, we now realize that as wonderful as they are, they have made mistakes. Last December, I contacted them with my concern for their advice about Aquarium and FishBowl on Maui. They responded that they would look into it."
What were the mistakes they made regarding these areas, gyppielou? And did they ever respond - it's been over six months since you alerted them...
Kal, you couldn't really be blaming bad drivers and foolish swimmers on the Blue Book, could you? I don't get the connection!
Jul 1st, 2004, 02:08 PM
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gyppielou,
Thank you for getting me off my a-- regarding this topic. I sent wizard publishing a note today and they sent me back an acknowledgement of reciept. I have had such a hard time figuring this issue out for myself and have not been able to synthesize my thoughts into coherence. This is a hard one, especially since I see myself as part of the problem. Your posting helped me get it together. Mahalo.
-Bill
Thank you for getting me off my a-- regarding this topic. I sent wizard publishing a note today and they sent me back an acknowledgement of reciept. I have had such a hard time figuring this issue out for myself and have not been able to synthesize my thoughts into coherence. This is a hard one, especially since I see myself as part of the problem. Your posting helped me get it together. Mahalo.
-Bill
Jul 1st, 2004, 06:18 PM
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Joan,
You took the liberty to quote me. Yes I contacted the authors and in my post told you their response. How they have chosen to edit their books....I do not know. I do know that they have written wonderful books. I think that frequent travelers that use and recomend their books, should offer advise to the authors regarding environemntal issues, privacy issues, and others. I am sure that that your attacking tone has no intent. You surely have no intent to attack anyone on this board. Kal? He was responding to more than you will ever understand.
You took the liberty to quote me. Yes I contacted the authors and in my post told you their response. How they have chosen to edit their books....I do not know. I do know that they have written wonderful books. I think that frequent travelers that use and recomend their books, should offer advise to the authors regarding environemntal issues, privacy issues, and others. I am sure that that your attacking tone has no intent. You surely have no intent to attack anyone on this board. Kal? He was responding to more than you will ever understand.
Jul 1st, 2004, 08:24 PM
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In Joan's defense, anyone who has been the beneficiary of her helpful advice on this board would agree that she doesn't have a mean bone in her body. The problem with these message boards (and e-mail in general) is that, lacking vocal inflection and body language, something can be misinterpreted as having an "attacking tone". I'm SURE she didn't mean it that way.
Jul 2nd, 2004, 05:05 AM
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Gosh gyppielou, I wasn't attacking you. You've been very helpful to me in the past. I sincerely want to know what mistakes were made in the Blue Book regarding Aquarium and Fish Bowl, and wondered whether you've checked the website updates to see if the authors have responded. And Kal is a wonderful guy, no doubt about it. And even though you say I'll never understand, hey I'm not that stupid...I'm sure TRYING to understand why littering and bad driving and swimming in dangerous currents could possibly be blamed on that book...the book is filled with cautions about swimming.
I do believe that perhaps our own lauding of Hawaii's treasures here on Fodor's has an effect - maybe as big as the one from the book. I recently discovered that the owner of a house I've recommended here a few times, in Kauai, has been inundated with calls, and as a result the owner has changed his renting policy. So perhaps not only the blue book, but the Fodor's forum, has contributed to the influx of visitors/problems for the Hawaiian islands.
I do believe that perhaps our own lauding of Hawaii's treasures here on Fodor's has an effect - maybe as big as the one from the book. I recently discovered that the owner of a house I've recommended here a few times, in Kauai, has been inundated with calls, and as a result the owner has changed his renting policy. So perhaps not only the blue book, but the Fodor's forum, has contributed to the influx of visitors/problems for the Hawaiian islands.
Jul 2nd, 2004, 05:12 AM
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This was an interesting thread to read. We did the Nualolo/Awaawapuhi loop at the recommendation of the blue book. It said it was difficult, it didn't say it was dangerous. It didn't even mention the part in the cross over trail that is about 6 inches wide and straight down 2000 feet if you slip. Oh ya, and you can't hold the cliff wall because it crumbles. My husband commented on how could a travel guide recommend such a dangerous trail for tourists.
Jul 2nd, 2004, 07:32 AM
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Why, I've never been insulted like this my whole life. 
Sorry I don't come with subtitles or a syllabus but I went from telling you what my local buddies have been saying for years about TBB to my personal rant with some tourists in the speed of light.
Sorry Joan.
It won't happen again. I'll type long, overly self explanatory posts without using paragraphs, completely footnoted with the correct annotations and a full bibliography.
And I'll type reallllll slowwwwww so you can understand my thought process.
179 to go and do battle with "The Blue Bible Tourists"!!!!
Mucho mahlos,
Kal
PS Long Live Don Corleone aka Marlon Brando!
Sorry I don't come with subtitles or a syllabus but I went from telling you what my local buddies have been saying for years about TBB to my personal rant with some tourists in the speed of light.
Sorry Joan.
It won't happen again. I'll type long, overly self explanatory posts without using paragraphs, completely footnoted with the correct annotations and a full bibliography.
And I'll type reallllll slowwwwww so you can understand my thought process.
179 to go and do battle with "The Blue Bible Tourists"!!!!
Mucho mahlos,
Kal
PS Long Live Don Corleone aka Marlon Brando!
Jul 2nd, 2004, 07:41 AM
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Betty, I was seriously thinking about doing that trail as it sounded awesome in the blue bible, but after your report and one other I read here on the forum - I knew it wasn't for me. If one of the two of us fell, it would be very possible that the other person may fall trying to "catch" the other. It could be days/weeks/never before help would arrive (or bodies found for that matter). I don't think this hike should be in a general travel book but rather in a hiking book for avid hikers.
My only other issue is that the Napali Trail from Ke'e Beach is UPSIDEDOWN in the book. Drives me nuts. The pictures makes it appear to be on the south shore. The water is on the bottom and the trail above it. I know friends draw maps with North to the left/right/bottom of the page but a guide book as good as this one should always show maps in the correct position. I guess I'm just a little anal.
My only other issue is that the Napali Trail from Ke'e Beach is UPSIDEDOWN in the book. Drives me nuts. The pictures makes it appear to be on the south shore. The water is on the bottom and the trail above it. I know friends draw maps with North to the left/right/bottom of the page but a guide book as good as this one should always show maps in the correct position. I guess I'm just a little anal.
Jul 2nd, 2004, 08:35 AM
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Well, the Fish Bowl isnt even the Fish Bowl anymore. It is now called Wahoos, before the Fish Bowl it was Margaritas. This is one of the reasons their restaurant reviews are so useless because the establishments change hands so often.
Jul 2nd, 2004, 10:37 AM
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Nancy,
The authors address your trail map concern--they say somewhere that they attempt to put north at the top of the page almost always, except on some trail maps that benefit from a different perspective. Come on, you know the Kalalau Trail is not on the south shore, and it's a good overview of that trail.
love
roxy
The authors address your trail map concern--they say somewhere that they attempt to put north at the top of the page almost always, except on some trail maps that benefit from a different perspective. Come on, you know the Kalalau Trail is not on the south shore, and it's a good overview of that trail.
love
roxy
Jul 2nd, 2004, 11:15 AM
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Roxy,
When I first started planning my trip and I bought the book. It took me some time to realize that the map was for a northern trail. When one is a "beginner" to Kauai everything is strange.
From looking at the map, I cannot see any reason why it made more sense to "draw" it upsidedown. No BIG deal just think that we you follow a trail map from left to right - you'd be walking away from the sunset.
When I first started planning my trip and I bought the book. It took me some time to realize that the map was for a northern trail. When one is a "beginner" to Kauai everything is strange.
From looking at the map, I cannot see any reason why it made more sense to "draw" it upsidedown. No BIG deal just think that we you follow a trail map from left to right - you'd be walking away from the sunset.
