bellhouse

This is my first post on a - hopeful - Utah trip this summer for my myself, DH, and 23 - , 21-, and 18-year old sons. My very basic itinerary is:

1) Fly to Vegas and drive to Zion (we're not gamblers or show people - so drive down the main drag/drags of Vegas just to see them and then leave.
2) Zion - including astronomy presentation by rangers
2)Zion
4) Zion to the north rim of the Grand Canyon
5) G.C. - maybe mule ride?
6)Grand Canyon
7) Grand Canyon to Bryce
8) Bryce
9)Bryce
10) Bryce to Moab - maybe Dead Horse Park on the way (?)
11) Moab - white water rafting, 4X4 tour
12) Moab - Canyonland, Arches
13) Moab - rock climbing type things for boys, more earthbound stuff for DH and me
14) Moab to Park City (visit niece/family) to Salt Lake City
15) Salt Lake City
16, Fly home

Questions

What about time allotted per stop? We're from Florida, so DH and I can spend hours just looking at mountains - but the boys are another story (I remember driving through the NC mountains for hours with my parents and crossing of the days until the "vacation" ended - but then I got carsick and was the only child traveling). The boys do like outdoor stuff - hiking, rock climbing (extreme novices), etc. and the eldest (at least) is dying (perhaps not the best word!) to try skydiving, skydiving, etc. Oh - and we all like ballooning. Another caveat - I'm doing chemo, so will have limited energy - no long hikes for me, although I'm perfectly happy sitting with a book and mountains to look at. I was thinking maybe if they do hikes, I could do mule or horse rides (not their favorite), Having stated all that - what would you suggest and where?

I know I have to get busy on the North Rim and Bryce. What about Zion? It looks like there are lots of places right outside the park if we can't get in the park lodge - but would you overwhelming say stay in the park if we can? If not, what do you suggest? It looks like there is a village area - is it big enough that they would have music, or something fun for the boys to do without having to drag us along? If so, we would want to stay within walking distance - don't want to pay the "under 25 driver" premium on the rental car! We enjoy on-of-a-kind places, but we'll be staying in lodges, etc. - so a chain would be fine. Suggestions on restaurants would be nice, but I figure I will concentrate on that once we get the itinerary set.

One day for Canyonlands and Arches? More?

Another caveat - I don't mind heights if I have lots of room around me, but I CAN NOT do narrow trails up high! Of course, that could be a book day!

Particular parts of parks that we need to see? Parts to avoid because of crowds - even if you would otherwise go to them? We went to Yosemite two summers ago and went down into the valley area for all of about 20 minutes - we much more enjoyed Tioga Pass and the northern area of the park.

What about things to see in-between what I have mentioned? Have I missed any fun/weird/one-of-a-kind stops? Kitsch is fine! Museums?

We will be going in June or July - not the best, I know, but we need to coordinate with school, jobs, etc. We went to Death Valley in July on the same Yosemite trip. We go up early to do stuff, went back to the hotel in the hottest part of the day, then set out again - which I guess would really make a difference as to where to stay in Zion.

KarenE

Be aware that it will be awfully hot in summer. We have been to Zion last summer and it was 120, not possinble to hike or even to go outside during the day. We hiked in the morning and left as soon as possible. Some years ago we went to Canyonlands and Arches, not as bad but also around 100 during the day. We now keep coming back because we love Utah but only in spring time.

tomfuller

If you do rent in LV and drop off in SLC you will have a big drop off fee. Fox would likely be the lowest.
I would plan to return to where I rented. If you go to Las Vegas there is an indoor skydiving place as well as a zipline ride at the Fremont Street Experience (old downtown).
If you don't like the hotels around St. George or Cedar City, consider a condo in St. George. stgeorgerentals.com
Be sure to drive route 12 from Bryce over to Capitol Reef.
Leaving Capitol Reef, make a stop for at least 2 hours at Goblin Valley SP. The HooDoos are different there than at Bryce. My DW and I used Green River as a base for Arches, Canyonlands, Goblin Valley and Capitol Reef.
When you go to Arches, sign up for the Ranger led walk at Firey Furnace. The hike out to Delicate Arch might be hot but it is worth it. There is a view area to the south if you can't make the hike. You should be able to handle the shorter hike out to Landscape Arch. The "Island-in-the-Sky" section of Canyonlands is worth 5-6 hours out of Moab.
Any chance your niece/family could meet you someplace for a daytrip in Southern Utah?
The other Las Vegas thing I forgot to mention is the Golden Nugget. The buffet(up the escalator) is very good and near the lobby is the largest gold nugget on public display (62 lb. 11 oz. In addition to the Golden Nugget at the Fremont St. Experience there is even a Krispy Kreme donut shop.
Take care of yourself so that you can enjoy this fabulous trip

Michael

I believe that mules rides start on the south side of the Grand Canyon. I do not recall seeing such concessions on the North Rim.

tomfuller

Michael-I thought that too. Yes there is a mule concession on the north rim. $40/pp for 1 hour or $75/pp for the half day.
No guarantee that it will be operating this year.

Myer

Drop off fees and driving.

I would consider SLC both ways since you have no interest in LV. I also like the road better for driving than from LV.

Heights. Unless you do the last part of the Angels Landing hike (from Scouts Lookout going up) you shouldn't really have an issue with heights. The scariest part of you trip might be driving on Rte 12. But scenic it is.

I recommend always trying for inpark lodging. By now it's all booked. Have no fear. Get your finger in shape and start calling. Forget the web site. As you get closer call every day and eventually you'll hit cancellations. The tours book blocks of rooms and then release them as the dates get closer.

Itinerary.
Personally, I think you have a day too long for the Grand Canyon and not enough for Arches.

I would allow at least 2 days for Zion (Angel's Landing, The Narrows if adventurous and a few others such as Canyon Overlook on the way out the east entrance/exit). You are at the bottom looking up so nothing great about sunrise/sunset.

One day for Bryce Canyon (get up early, early for a spectacular sunrise at Bryce Point - you will not be alone). Then hike Navajo Loop / Queens Garden (if you want more squeeze Peek-a-Boo in between - however, be aware that at Bryce the elevation is 8,000 ft and you're from Florida).

I would allow most of a day for Canyonlands and Dead Horse Point. They're right next to each other and close to Arches.

You did not leave enough time for Arches. At a minimum book the ranger-led Fiery Furnace hike, hike to Delicate Arch an hour or so before sunset, spend time in the Windows section as there are a good variety of arches close to each other.

For those with more energy Landscape Arch and some of the Devil's Garden hikes. Others will recommend.

There are some very worthwhile sights that are not part of national parks.

The drive along Rte 12.

Willis Creek slot canyon or some other that I'm sure others will suggest.

Devil's Garden Escalante (not to be confused with Devil's Garden in Arches) 12 miles down Hole-in-the-Rock Road for the rock sculptures and/or Goblin Valley State Park for it's rock sculptures. Both worth a couple of hours each stop en route.

Lower Calf Creek falls. Beautiful water falls but 2 1/2 miles each way in the heat with little shade. Take water and sunscreen.

spirobulldog

There are mule rides on North Rim, Zion, and Bryce all operated by the same company. North Rim Mule rides do not go all the way to the bottom.

Myer and Tomfuller are definately leading you in the right direction on how long to stay and other great spots to consider. Do not miss Goblin Valley. About 2 miles from GV is Little Wildhorse Canyon(great slot canyon) In June/July pick some fruit at Capitol Reef. Buy pie at The Gifford House and eat in the Orchard in Cap Reef.

Since your boys are adventurous. www.deserthighlights.com for canyoneering in Moab. Probably the best thing I have ever done. Even beats rafting the Grand Canyon in my book. It can also be done in Zion, but I would go with the company I mention above. They are outstanding.

The 4 wheel drive hummer tours can be very very scary. I did one with Moab Adventure Company and it was good. They also do canyoneering, but that isn't really there bag, so I wouldn't go with them for that.

Arches alone requires a very full day to see everything there. I would probably cut back a day at Zion, Bryce, and GC and add a couple of days to Moab and Goblin Valley area.

Bryce is more known for the astronomy than Zion.
The main Bryce Night Sky thingy is usually only on Saturday, but they do offer other things. They also have a Full Moon hike, two days per month. Goblin Valley also has this type thing occasionally. Do get out and see the stars several miles away from any lights, very cool!!

I know that you mention you don't like shows, but you might consider one of the Cirque shows. I can only like Vegas for about a day. We usually eat one place and sometimes see a show, then head out just like you are doing. There are some crazy rides at The Stratosphere that your buys might get into. Bungy jumping, roller coaster, etc. All attached to the top of the building(I think the tallest manmade object west of the Mississippi).

Sounds like you have it planned pretty well, and sounds like a great trip. Get up at 5 each morning and have them do their hikes early. Drive in the afternoons when possible.

spirobulldog

Let me suggest Granary Canyon and Pleiades for a canyoneering adventure. Both of those would require pretty much a full day. I haven't done either of them, but those are my next two. I have been with them on Krill Canyon(no longer allowed to do by the park service) and in Oregon. In Oregon it was a lot of water and rappelling off waterfalls-similar to Pleiades. Medieval with the Tryolean Traverse looks to be a cool one as well. Matt is the owner. I have been with him and a guide named Herb. Been with Herb Twice. Both are outstanding.

bachslunch

Good advice from Myer and tomfuller on Arches, which I'll second. Myself, I'd spend an absolute bare minimum of one full day at Arches, and two days would be even better. I hiked Devil's Garden up to and back from Double-O Arch along with side jaunts to other arches along the way, which took several hours -- and it was absolutely wonderful. One can continue further along to Devil's Tower and circle back via a different route, which would add on more time.

Saw but did not hike Delicate Arch and The Windows area, and did not get to do Fiery Furnace. From all reports, hiking these is excellent.

Re the heat. A good way to beat this issue is to hike in the early morning or late in the afternoon/early evening. But you may find the heat easier to manage compared to Florida, as it's a very dry heat (not the miserably humid stuff of the Southeast) -- I didn't mind it even at over 100 degrees. Just be sure to drink a lot of water throughout the day even if you don't feel thirsty (drink more than you think, as if you notice dehydration you're already up the creek), and wear a hat, sunglasses, and sunblock.

Myer

Let me stress about Arches NP.

Fiery Furnace ranger led hike. About 3 to 3 1/2 hours. Nothing difficult.

Delicate Arch. Don't just view it from the distant viewpoint unless you have a physical issue. It's an easy hike though all uphill going (and downhill returning). The setting and the way people sit around the "bowl" watching the sun slowly descend is amazing. The snow on the Lasal (or is it Lasalle) Mtns directly dehind the Arch is spectacular.

The Windows section has Double Arch, North & South Windows, Turret Arch, Parade of Elephants all surrounding the parking area. You actually can go inside Double Arch and thru the others.

And just before you get to this section you can stop at Balanced Rock. I'm convinced that they come in the evening to patch it up and make sure it doesn't fall.

You can see my photos at:

www.travelwalks.com

bellhouse

Thanks so much everyone! I'm printing out everything, then going to AAA to get a map of the area so I can see exactly where things are - at least I hope - seems like their maps are too small sometimes to show the detail I want. I especially appreciate the advice on how much time to spend where - plus everyone seems to agree which is very encouraging- I had no idea how much time to allot to places. Spiro - I remember reading one of your other posts about the hummer tour and how terrifying it was! I will try it, though - at least it won't be as scary as canyoneering. We went to Moaning Cavern in California to rappel down the cave several years ago - mainly (I thought) as something fun and different for the boys. By the time we got there, middle son was put out about something and decided he was not going to be a part of that family outing - so he sat outside and read a book. I went first. I am claustrophobic, so the first bit (you sort of had to curl up a bit to get through) had me terrified - I would let myself down a bit, then stop and cry and think I was going to die, then I would figure that if I didn't go I would die - right there! - so I would go a bit, stop, and cry. I finally got to the open area (as high as the Statue of Liberty) and thankfully got to the bottom as fast as I could. DH is ok with enclosed spaces, but really, really, really doesn't like heights - and he looked down as he got out in the open - he came down very, very, very slowly with his eyes closed. Youngest son (oldest didn't go on this trip) got about 15 feet down and asked them to pull him back up - he walked down the stairs to meet his extremely shaky and still terrified parents. So - the boys can go canyoneering if they want, but there is NO WAY DH and I are going! Off to AAA and thanks again! This is chemo week and I woke up feeling not the best, but this has really perked me up!

spirobulldog

Well the hummer tour was far more scary to me and my daughter than the canyoneering. I feel that the canyoneering is safer than climbing a ladder. I don't know what keeps the hummers from tipping over. Keep in mind that this is a military type hummer. very big and very expensive. I don't think either of us would do it again. I would have got out and walked had we not been several miles from town and it was hot.

bellhouse

Oh dear! Is there a less scary version that will allow you to see off road things? Also - thanks for letting me know about the astronomy presentations at Bryce - we all enjoy it, but it will make the trip for our oldest son!

WhereAreWe

Stop at Coral Pink Sand Dunes State Park on the drive between Zion and the North Rim (maybe?) I think you can rent dune buggies.

Possibly one less day at the Grand Canyon unless you really just want to relax there. I would also cut way back on the Bryce days, just stay 1.5 days (the day you arrive from GC and the next, then leave). Give yourself more time in Moab, although I don't know that I'd spend 2 full days in Arches if you are physically limited in your hikes, especially with so many other things to do in that area. 1 full day, plus another morning in Arches and then move on to Canyonlands or other stuff around Moab.

Zion has a good shuttle system so if you do get lodging in the park your sons could get on the shuttle to get into town and back, although you would have to check on what time the shuttle ends or else maybe drive into town and pick them up if they stay out late?

Be realistic about what you can do physically, the North Rim and Bryce are both above 8000 feet in elevation so you might struggle with hikes. Walking along the rim would be fine but if you hike down into the canyon it'll be tougher than you think to hike out.

Dayle

bellhouse,

The only advice I strongly disagree with is tomfuller's advice on condos for rent in St. George. Staying in St. George or Cedar City and trying to see the parks from there is a very bad idea. Too far away. I honestly think he's advertising, as he somehow always manages to get this in in his replies.....

Yes, you need 2 days in Arches for sure.

In all of the parks there are a fair number of easy walks/hikes for your situation with possibly limited energy. In Arches - The Windows section, Landscape Arch, Skyline Arch, Delicate Arch viewpoint. Going out to Delicate Arch might be a bit much for you, but you will have to see how you feel. Do it very early in the morning if at all.

bellhouse

I finally sat down and revised our itinerary and want to check with everyone over what they think:

1) get into Las Vegas and spend night (DH and some kids want to see the strip lit up at night

2) 2 full days/3 nights at Zion - astronomy, hiking, resting (me!),

3) 1 day/2 nights North Rim - seeing Coral Pink Sand dunes on way

4) 1 day/2 nights at Bryce - which will include an astronomy night, full moon hike if there then

5) Moab - by way of Rt. 12 - not sure on how long to stay yet - right now mainly want to get the national parks mapped out so I can start calling about rooms - maybe arrive Sat and leave Wednesday

6) Probably stop in Park City for a night to see niece/family (they have two little ones and her husband is traveling a lot now during the week, so we will go to them even if it's sort of out of the way - plus DH (and I) want to see

7) Salt Lake City - either leave Park City early and spend one night, or maybe two nights. Maybe a little of the city, but mainly the lake and the promontory where the transcontinental railroad halves met

First - what do you think of the above - particularly through Bryce?

Now questions -
Going to Coral Pink Sand Dunes between Zion and North Rim - about how much time in terms of driving to add that in?

Take 12/24/70 to Moab? How long a drive would that be? How scary is 12????? Are there guard rails or reasonably wide shoulders for higher parts? Remember - we're from FL! Adding in stopping at Goblin State Park (2 hours?) - is that far (in terms of time) off the road (the AAA map helps, but not much - will get better one, hopefully for birthday in two weeks!). Now i can't find the bit that ? posted about stopping for fruit picking at Capital Reef (what and where?) and the pie at Gifford House - where is that?

Fiery furnace walk with ranger - I could do it if rested if it's not too much change in altitude - lots of going up hill - depending on elevation to begin with. Does the ranger stop to talk about things, or is it pretty steady walking?

With Bryce's elevation - anyone know if I could see more on a mule ride than if I am hampered by not doing well with hikes at a higher elevation? Or stick with the rest of the family and just do easy stuff? I don't want them to miss out on something really spectacular just because I can't get to it.

What is a slot canyon?

Suggestions as to route from Moab to Park City? Anything you suggest seeing along the way?

Myer - you mentioned Lower Creek Falls, but said it was a pretty long walk with little shade. Any other water/swimming options? I also saw that you said the Fiery Furnace walk wasn't difficult - good!

Guess that's it for now - but I'm sure I'll come up with more questions! Thanks!

tomfuller

Can't help you with Rt. 12. From the Visitor Center at Capitol Reef the Gifford house is less than 5 miles up the paved park road to the south. Worth the stop if it is open. It was closed when we were there in November-walked around it.
From same Visitor Center, Make sure to see the petroglyphs along Rt. 24. Walk the boardwalks. Fruit will probably not be quite ripe when you are there.
From CR Vis Center to Goblin Valley is 1:15 (entrance 6 miles off 24). From Goblin Valley to Green River using 24 and I-70 is an hour. Depending on how long you spend in GV, you should consider staying in Green River for the night.
From Green River to Moab is nearly an hour. Moab is 31 miles south of I-70 (Crescent Jct) on US 191.
In Arches NP you will see several slot canyons. A slot canyon is the area between 2 sandstone rock "fins". The walk out to Landscape Arch is not steep and goes through a nice one.
On the way back to Park City, make a stop at the prehistoric museum in Price. You will be exiting I-15 on University Blvd in Provo (US 189) to Heber City and left onto US 40 to get to Park City. The 2 hours (each way) from Park City to Promontory for a 15 minute visit to see where the golden spike was driven is not worth it IMHO.
You can actually swim in the GSL near the marina off I-80 about 20 miles west of SLC. You must take a freshwater shower before you leave or you will be sorry later.
In the hours before we got back on the train, my DW and I spent a few hours walking around Temple Square trying to stay warm (Nov 8-dusting of snow).

Myer

I live in FL too so I'm not used to "steep grade - curved roads" (I photographed one of those signs and it's on my web site). I figure the yellow line is there to straddle.

Just drive slowly and stop at the lookouts.

From Bryce to Moab 12/24/70/191 is about 175 miles and a little over 5 hours.

That is assuming you don't stop at Devils Garden Escalante (very different), Lower Calf Creek Falls (beautiful 126ft waterfall), Capitol Reef NP or Goblin valley (a more juvenile version of Devil's garden). And some of these are very different and worth the stop.

Goblin Valley is about 15-20 minutes off 24. The road there is paved and good. Two hour stop is fine.

The Fiery Furnace is not difficult. If you're reasonably fit you shouldn't have a problem. It's a part of the park where you cannot go yourself as there aren't specific trails. The ranger who took us was actually a retired volunteer. I imagin that while each hike is similar, they're all somewhat different.

We stopped many times and he explained things. Arches is in elevation but you will have been in Utah for several days so it's not too high (not like Bryce at 8,000 feet). Some parts were a bit narrow but there's no rush.

If you look at my photos www.travelwalks.com (select the Utah 2008 trip) there are some photos of this hike.

Yes, Bryce is at 8,000. You probably won't feel it until you start to go uphill. The trails in Bryce are wide and smooth. So at any time you can stop and rest without getting in the way of others. Drink a lot of water. Also, if your hiking is done after a night's sleep there you'll do better. Just don't rush, drink water, wear a hat and put on sunscreen. It's worth the effort.

Slot Canyon. Go to Google, Images and enter the name of some that have been mentioned here. I've been to Willis Creek. This one is an adventure to drive to but a very easy walk. Typically a slot canyon is very narrow (5-10 feet wide) with walls on either side that go straight up. Flash floods over a million years created them. I have photos of them in 2008 and 2010 trips. Do not go to a slot canyon if there's rain in the area. Willis Creek is better for this than most as there are large opening between the slots so you won't get caught.

I've been to Lower Calf Creek Falls twice. Both were in the middle of hot days (mid-May and mid-Sept). For me hiking is for the sights and not the joy of hiking. There were a fair number of others hiking this trail both times. Nobody complained about the length. There are no cliffs or drop-offs. I just would have liked it to be a half hour shorter. There is some shade and you don't have to walk fast. Just drink water. It's very shady at the Falls.

Other swimming options. We were in Zion. After coming back down from Angle's Landing (no, not all the way. just to Scouts Lookout although I had a debate with my daughter since she wanted to keep going) we walked the beautiful Riverside walk. Right near the beginning there were a lot of people playing around in the water. Not really swimming. Also the same where Riverside walk meets the Narrows. Also, there's a big pool at Emerald Pools (the top one I believe). Quite a few people were swimming in there. I don't think any of the other parks have water.

Check out photos as they give you a good idea of what's there.

bellhouse

Oh Myer - I laughed out loud at your first sentence! I agree completely about the use of the yellow line and so does DH - now will finish reading posts......

spirobulldog

There should be some kind of fruit by June or July. Probably Cherries or Peaches. They even grow almond trees. There are several huge Orchards. You can't miss them. Gifford House is right by the picnic area, which is next to an Orchard. I am fairly certain that it will be open in the summer. I will be there in again in May. The pies arrive at 8:00AM and they sometimes sell out by noon. I have only had them once, and I bought the last one around noon, so this is what I am going by. By your pie, walk a few feet to the picnic tables in the Orchard and eat it them there. They also have homemade ice cream. The pies and ice cream are made out of fruit from the Orchard. I liked Capitol Reef, but I think all of the other places you are going have better things to see, so I wouldn't stop here to hike, just swing through the park, have a pie. The pies are really to big for one person, they easily feed two.

You will see slot canyons in Arches, but I suggest you do the Willis Creek that Myer has done or Little Wildhorse Canyon(right by Goblin Valley). These are longer more defined slot canyons. I suggest allowing 2 hours at either. You can walk in as far as you like and turn around. These are normally fairly easy and not much elevation gain. You can do these in the heat of the day as there is a lot of shade. The Narrows are a slot canyon. But the two I mention above are more Narrow.

I like your plan. I think you will want 3-4 days in Moab. There is a river in Capitol Reef for water, but it isn't nearly as spectacular as Calf Creek Falls or river in Zion. You aren't going to find many natural places for water in this area. The canyoneering outfitter that I mentioned does go to several waterfalls in Moab, but these are really really cold. I plan on doing them my next trip with him. You have to wear a drysuit(different than a wetsuit), even in the summer. The drysuit keeps you totally dry, while a wetsuit just keeps you warmer. With a wetsuit you still get wet.

Look on youtube and you can find about all of the hikes from many peoples views on there.