McShade471

G'day All,

My partner and I are traveling to the US for the first time in February/March.

In trying to work out what, when and how to do things we learned several things:
1. your national parks are stunning,
2. the US is.. BIG!
3. We need help in planning this
4. Fodors kept coming up in our searches

So here we are hoping the experience of people on this forum can help,

We will be visiting Los Angeles, Las Vegas and San Francisco so we are only looking at Parks/places in the South West.. and it still seems BIG!

We started by plotting all the places that interested us on a map, and removing the ones that are obviously too far.

This left us with a loop from Las Vegas and a run from Las Vegas to San Francisco (apologies if I get names wrong or out of order, the list isn't in front of me).

Vegas Loop:
Vegas
Zion
Bryce
Lake Powell
Antelope Canyon
Grand Canyon (intending to do the Blue Angel Trail and South Kaibab trail)
Meteor Crater
Sunset Crater
Wupatki Peublo
Painted Desert/Petrified Forest
Hoover Dam
Vegas

Vegas to San Francisco:
Vegas
Death Valley
Sequoia NP
Kings Canyon NP
Yosemite
San Francisco

Starting on Feb 21st we have 14, maybe 16, days to spend in National parks, and then on top of that our friends in LA are telling us we have to do the SF to LA coastal drive.

It is obvious this is not even remotely doable and we will have to come back because we are not interested in just ticking locations off of a list. So this is where we need the help of your knowledge and advice.

At that time of the year which (feasible) combination of parks will give us a good sampling of the variety of experiences and sensational views. I mean it is not sensible to travel further than we have to to get to a park, which at that time of the year is very similar to another park.
Are some parks not worth visiting at that time of the year, ie we are travelling an extra 500km to get to the painted desert, is it going to be worth seeing, or are its colours going to be under snow?

And if you have any recommendatons of what to do in particular parks/places what sites and hikes they have that would be a great help as well. Hikes would need to be doable in a single day. We hiked in mountains and snow in NZ and are looking forward to that sort of thing again.

Thanks in advance for any help..

Andrew

emalloy

At that time of year, we have done Vegas to Zion to Bryce to Page for Antelope Canyon, to Grand Canyon, Hoover Dam and back to Vegas in a week with hikes in the parks except for Bryce which had snow on the trails. You do need to watch the weather, however, because you could get snow at that time of year. As I have about 30 inches of snow in my yard right now, the conditions have always seemed very nice and there was never any snow on the roads when we have been there.

Death Valley is only a couple of hours from Vegas and should be quite pleasant at that time of year.

Your options for the rest of the national parks will be impacted by the snow. Sequoia and Kings Canyon will probably only have very few if any roads/trails open and not snow covered and Yosemite will be nice in the valley but the upper areas will be closed.

Have a fantastic trip

MikePinTucson

I would skip meteor crater and add Walnut Canyon.

http://www.americansouthwest.net/ari..._monument.html

I would add a drive down Oak Creek Canyon to Sedona. It is the red rocks there, not the town, that is the attraction. In fact, I would visit Sedona instead of the Petrified Forest/Painted Desert.

The first part of your trip is quite doable in 14 to 16 days.

spirobulldog

First off, weather is going to be very very iffy at the time you indicate in almost all of your travels. The coast will be fine, but could be foggy or cold. Death Valley will be fine. Zion, Bryce, Sequoia, and Yosemite will be very limited on what you can do and could be even super snowy. Expect to drive with a tire chains and even better have a 4 wheel drive with chains in Yosemite and Sequoia.

Unless you are a very very seasoned serious hiker, do not even think about attempting the Grand Canyon. This is a tough enough hike if you have reservations to stay at Phantom Ranch in the bottom. You cannot hike down the Bright Angel Trail and back up the Kaibab in one day. You need to really read about this and think about this. This is serious stuff, especially if snow is on the ground.

There would be some hikes that you could do, and you could do some snow shoeing. I would probably just stick with California and perhaps the Grand Canyon. Really you should spend two weeks just for Utah.

janisj

You cannot get from Las vegas to Sequoia/Kings Canyon/Yosemite w/o traveling around through Bakersfield and then north. This is one hellacious drive. And little will be open in Kings Canyon/Seq.

At that time of year, Yosemite is much MUCH easier to get to from San Francisco than from Las Vegas

If Yosemite is a must (and it should be IMO) -- it would be easier to fly from LV to SF (or Sacramento or San Jose or Oakland) and then rent a different car to visit YNP.

crisscross

We only do one park on any trip. At that time of year Death Valley, which is enormous, should do it. You can combine it with Red Rocks outside Las Vegas. There is an amazing ranger-led mystery hike every week at Death Valley. Southern Arizona is also good at that time of year. I like Chiricahua National Monument and I would combine it with a few days at a ranch (Grapevine Canyon is excellent - people come from all over the world). You could stay in Willcox and eat at Rodney's, which is worth the trip on its own. Ask Rodbney if you don't believe me. Organ Pipe Cactus is spectacular but there is no decent town to stay in (Ajo was not decent when we were there). You can also go to the Palm Springs area and see Joshua Tree National Monument. The south rim of the Grand Canyon is interesting if you are willing to hike down off the rim. If there's ice on the trail they require instep crampons, which you can buy at the park store for a few dollars. The real enemy in terms of weather is the altitude, leading to snow and ice. Bryce and Zion have this issue and the north rim of the canyon is closed. Sedona has some interesting walks but nothing of the scale of the nationa parks and monuments. And the best thing of all is Kartchner Caverns State Park near Benson AZ. You should book both tours in advance - absolutely ubelievable and so well protected and explained!

McShade471

Thanks for the responses so far, that's giving more of an idea about weather and accessability.. and rereading my message I noticed I called Bright Angel Trail, blue angel trail, oops..

Perhaps I should add that as we are coming from Australia, the next visit while necessary wont be soon, so, while I don't want to do unnecessary driving, I also don't want to miss something for the sake of a few hours driving..

thanks again,

Andrew

janisj

"I also don't want to miss something for the sake of a few hours driving.."

It is more than a 'few'. In winter, LV > Bakersfield > Yosemite > San Francisco would take a minimum of 15 hours and that is w/o stops, meals, or sightseeing. And 3/4 of that drive is tedious/ugly. If you want to see YNP -- the best/easiest way is to approach it from the west (San Francisco or San Jose or Sacramento)

McShade471

point taken. I wasn't thinking Death Valley to Sequoia (Google maps showed me the route you gave and how far it was, although it didn't call it hellacious so you gave me a nice idea of what it was like)

The 'a few hours driving' comment was more for places like Meteor Crater, Painted Desert or new suggestions like Walnut Canyon (thank you, looks interesting)

Thanks again

Andrew

janisj

I think you can fit in YNP. It is just that I'd turn in the car in Vegas, fly to SFO and visit SF. Then collect a different car when leaving the city, visit Yosemite, head west to Monterey and drive down the coast to LA.

Kay2

"We will be visiting Los Angeles, Las Vegas and San Francisco
A loop from Las Vegas and a run from Las Vegas to San Francisco."

I am an outdoors person and love the West, so I will share my opinions of the destinations in your list I have visited considering a trip at that time (we are going to LV area in late March and are facing the same weather issues.)

A round trip loop from LV is a good idea (assuming you are flying from LA?)
Las Vegas to me is a great site to see at night--the lights (Strip and Fremont Street), a casino, a show, and then I am done. So I don't like to spend more than a day/night or two.

Zion is Impressive being on the valley floor looking up at the towering walls. I have only visited with my mother in the summer, so not much specific advice there.

Bryce Canyon was gorgeous in the autumn with just a touch of snow. When you arrive it should be snow covered and a place to look at the views and then snowshoe or cross country ski. I hiked in the autumn and the trails are almost all sloping rock, which means slippery in snow/ice. The park website shows what they sell to attach to your hiking boots if you want to try it in winter.

Grand Canyon South Rim is fantastic for the view. It is bigger/more impressive than Bryce Canyon. Very different. I haven't been there at that time for hiking, but I think it would be at the top of my list for the loop.

Meteor Crater is interesting, but I would not go out of my way for it.

Painted Desert was not that impressive to me in the summer.

Petrified Forest was interesting to see, but not on par with Grand Canyon, Bryce, or Zion.

I like Sedona, but it is smaller scale than the NPs.


As much as I love Sequoia/Kings Canyon NP, I agree with those discouraging you. It is a long way from anywhere. I have driven there from SF and it was a long, boring drive. I have been there in April when the road through the park was closed and you could only drive in either entrance to one area to see the trees. I walked around on snow packed about 4-5 feet deep and took some great photos, but that was about it. I think people were snowshoeing. I went back in the summer and realized how little I had seen.

Yosemite is also impressive and worth the drive from SF. As previously stated, the valley is open, but higher elevation areas closed at that time. If the weather turns bad, the roads there can be awful. As stated above, you may need chains on your car tires.

I agree with the suggestion to fly from LV to SF and start another loop. SF is one of my favorite tourist cities for a few days stay, then go over to Muir Woods for the redwoods, or up to Yosemite if the weather permits, then if there isn't fog/rain, drive down to Big Basin or other redwoods parks if you haven't been to Muir Woods, Monterey, Big Sur, then either on down to Hearst Castle, then inland to LA (the best scenery is around Big Sur) or back to SF. It can be very wet/cold/foggy around SF and inland that time of year. I always thought the fog in SF was pretty neat, but it makes coastal driving difficult and hides the views.

McShade471

Thanks Kay2,

Very informative

Is it possible to fly from Las Vegas to Fresno?
would that makes sense? Hire a car in Fresno, see Sequoia (mostly just a drive with photo stops by the sound of it), same for Kings Canyon if we can get into it at all, then onto Yosemite then San Francisco?

Andrew

Shanti

You can fly from Las Vegas to Fresno. You can go to expedia.com to find out about flights and prices.

I'm assuming that you already have your tickets to and from the US but don't know where you will be arriving and leaving from. It would be easier to make recommendations if we knew when you have to be in certain places to catch flights. I'd be a little leery of adding in a flight to Fresno if you're already committed to being in LA, San Francisco, and Las Vegas during a 14 day period.

McShade471

Hi Shanti, I was trying to limit the length of my initial post.

We have 14-16 days to devote to national parks, maybe more if we cant fill up the allotted number of days in the cities (since this is the first time in the US, I dont think i am going to short of things to do or see anwhere.. want to avoid a 2500mile driving tour of 'park closed' signs, and if possible see some of the best things I can see.

We will be in Las Vegas on the 19th and 20th of February which is why I had a Las Vegas loop and a Las Vegas SF leg as posibilities.

All up we are in the states for 33 days.

Thinking:

2 days for Vegas, Blue Man Group, Cirque de Soliel(sp?), Penn and Teller and see the bright lights
4 days San Francisco
5 days New York
5 days LA


Flying in and out of the US through LAX, flights booked.

McShade471

The rest is for the national parks
I hadn't mentioned New york previously as it is all worked out and not really part of this South west section i am trying to organise

thanks all, I really appreciate the effort of your responses

Andrew

Shanti

That helps a bit. The tricky part is that California weather is variable that time of year. It might be gorgeous or it might rain/snow a lot. There's no way to predict. I went to Yosemite last April and it was in the 70s the day I arrived. Two days later there was a snow storm.

I really, really, really love Yosemite in the winter - if it's not during a storm. Then the roads will be a mess and visibility might be limited.

If this were my trip, I'd budget a few days for Yosemite with the understanding that you might have to switch gears if a storm rolls in and spend that time in other areas - Marin County or add it to your drive south to LA.

As others have mentioned - Petrified Forest, Painted Desert, and Meteor Crater aren't that impressive. Not that they're not worth a visit, but you have limited time and some of the other places on your list are much more worthwhile.

I also liked Sunset Crater and Wupatki and also recommend adding in Walnut Canyon - it's not that far from the other two.

janisj

Yes you can fly to Fresno --but I wouldn't myself. For 2 reasons.

• A car is almost totally useless in San Francisco. So if you fly to Fresno,visit YNP and then drive to the city you have to deal w/ parking ($35-$50 a day at most city center hotels - free at some motels)

• In Feb tule fog is a VERY real issue in the CA central valley. This isn't coastal fog that burns off by noon. You could book tix to Fresno and end up w/ lengthy delays or even day's long cancellations. Not kidding -- I once had to fly from Sacramento to Bakersfield on business. On my return flight, B'field fogged in so they bused us up to Fresno. By the time we neared in Fresno it was down to zero visibility so the coach turned around and we headed back to B'field. Eventually (6 hours later) they flew us to Burbank (which is in LA) where we boarded flights to Sacramento. What would normally be a 1 hour flight ended taking more than 12 hours.

But if you fly into SF, you can see the city car-less, collect your hire car the morning you leave and drive to Yosemite. IF, worst case scenario, the central valley is socked in, and you don't want to risk driving across it to YNP-- you can change plans and head down the coast.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tule_fog

MikePinTucson

Andrew,

You will be driving through part of the Painted Desert when you drive down from Page / Antelope Canyon. The loop drive though the Painted Desert / Petrified Forest is not very impressive as far as the painted desert portion. But I enjoyed the Petrified Forest.

As far as Meteor Crater, I wasn't really very impressed with it. You can only walk along part of the rim, and not down into the crater at all.

I would stil skip that part in favor of Oak Creek Canyon and Sedona.

StantonHyde

You can absolutely hike in the Grand Canyon in February. On one of my last backpacks there, the leader had done the same trip in February. BUT he did say there was a lot of ice at the top of the trails. So--I would highly encourage you to buy some Yak Trax and use them.

As for hiking into the Grand Canyon--it depends on how good of shape you are in. You could certainly take one day to hike down to the 3 mile rest stop and then back up. You might be able to make it to Indian Gardens--if you have a long day. But that is assuming that you are doing something similar to running 4-6 miles 5 days a week.

Hiking into the Canyon is amazing but in some ways, you see more of it by stopping at the look out points along the way. Just my opinion. I have backpacked into the Canyon 3 times, using totally different routes each time. When you have a week, you can immerse yourself like that. If you only have a couple of days, I would see the viewpoints etc first and then fit in a hike if I had time.

It is an awe inspiring site, not to be missed!!

bigtyke

Are you planning to hike down the Grand Canyon to the river and up in the same day? It can be done but only if in great shape (a friend ran down and back in one day, but he was a world class track man)

In Wupatki, stop at a couple of the ruins and at the main ruin (the one actually called Wupatki), be sure to go all the way to the blowhole.

At Sunset Crater, the Lenox trail is a short, but steep, trail that leads to a very nice view.

Meteor Crater is unique in the world, but it is out of the way, but not if you go to the Petrified Forest. PF is interesting, but it is a long way out of the way and it isn't much different than viewing some felled trees, except these have been turned into stone.