Last year I went to Vancouver and this year I just returned from San Francisco on vacation. These first-time visits surprised me in that I wasn't expecting to love the West Coast of North America quite as much.

San Francisco I found such a jewel, with its charming distinctive architecture and pedestrian-friendly streets. Combine this with gorgeous views of water, the surrounding hilly terrain and some great parks and I was won over.

Vancouver(Canada) had more glassy high-rises than SF which detracted a bit aesthetically, but definitely had charming pedestrian neighborhoods to stroll in like West End and Kitsilano, with older clapboard homes and locally-operated stores. The parks, the beaches, the close-by mountains, the verdant islands in the Georgia Strait and the temperate rain forest hiking paths, all within easy access of the city, combined to win me over scenically.

Which brings me to my thought: I was thinking about combining Seattle and Vancouver next summer. Vancouver I know I love and will return to; Seattle is more a question of how much time (if any) do I spend there.

Some people told me Seattle's a sprawl and architecturally boxy. When I travel, I would prefer NOT to rent a car, so sprawl and poor/no public transit can influence my decision.

Anyhow, if you think Seattle has neighbourhoods with charm or distinctive character, has lovely parks, has beautiful water views, has some scenic bike rides and bike rental places, let me know... It'll help me decide how much time to spend there.

Thanks DAN

We spent 5 days in Seattle and 5 days in Vancouver last year without a car and loved both cities. We took the bus & train, walked, took a whale watch day trip etc and never missed having a car.

Seattle is spread out, but that just gives it lots of different kinds of neighborhoods.

Do both, take Amtrak between them, and you will have a super vacation. We went mid August and had perfect weather.

Hope this helps...
Debi

Last August we visited Victoria, BC and Seattle. You might consider Victoria since you've already been to Vancouver. It's a lovely place and we look forward to returning. We flew into Seattle and took a float plane to Victoria (a wonderful experience), took a ferry back to Seattle and flew home from there.

We stayed at the Delta Hotel right at water's edge (though we didn't pay extra for water view). Went on a whale watch, toured the outstanding Royal BC Museum, walked the flower lined streets, ate ice cream, had some very good meals as well.

In Seattle we stayed in the Pioneer Square Hotel in old Seattle. Our room was miniscule (okay for a couple nights) but there were much better rooms available. Quite a nice breakfast was included, and the hotel was well situated for sightseeing. We love jazz and had dinner and jazz at a club there. We visited the art museum and enjoyed walking through Pike Place Market (though it was very crowded). We rode the restored trolleys which ran close to our hotel and took us down the waterfront.

It was a terrific trip, one we would enjoy repeating.

Some people told me Seattle's a sprawl and architecturally boxy.

You have been misinformed.

If anything, Seattle is less sprawled and boxy than many cities, including Vancouver. Topography plays a much larger role in Seattle than in most other cities; it's a combination of SF (steep hills, surprising vistas) and Vancouver (mountains over there, ocean over there.) Seattle is an isthmus between Puget Sound and Lake Washington, and several lakes within the city limits (most notably Lake Union) conspire to make the city's neighborhoods more distinct - between the hills and the water bodies there's no room to sprawl.

Now if one is thinking of the metro region, well then of course there's an element of "sprawl," but nothing of a London/LA/Chicago nature - it's nowhere that big. Vancouver sprawls pretty noticeably to the east and southeast, in case you didn't notice.

Seattle doesn't have SF's residential densities - it's more a single-family scene than row houses - but it's very leafy and has lots of neighborhood commercial areas that are great for walking and exploring, vs. a relative few in Vancouver. Seattle's Chinatown is nowhere as big as SF's or Vancouver's, but then again nobody's is.

Public transport in the city and metro region is excellent, so not having a car is not really a huge impediment.

IMO Seattle's neighborhoods have much more character - on average - than Vancouver's. For every Kerrisdale (Van) there's a Fremont and a Columbia City and a Ballard Avenue...

But... sorry. it's not really a competition. I think a visit split between the two will be an embarrassment of riches.

Thanks for your thoughts!

""Topography plays a much larger role in Seattle than in most other cities; it's a combination of SF (steep hills, surprising vistas) and Vancouver (mountains over there, ocean over there.) Seattle is an isthmus between Puget Sound and Lake Washington, and several lakes within the city limits""

I think I'm sold and now am mulling I might stay longer in Seattle than I was originally thinking. Sounds like there'd be some terrific parks and bike rides within that; what you describe sounds super... I like the idea of exploring those "charming" neighbourhoods too.

Thanks all! DAN

If you like biking, while you are in Seattle you might check out the Burke-Gilman trail. It will link several of the neighborhoods of Seattle and beyond...Gas Works Park, Fremont, University of Washington, etc. I've been gone so long that I hope I'm not saying this wrong, but I think this trail also goes out to Chateau Ste Michelle, a lovely winery. If it isn't the B-G, there is another that does so.

So, as Gardyloo says, you really have a bit of everything, including the biking that you have mentioned.

The city of Seattle is really a jewel and a very fun walking city. The surrounding areas are the very definition of sprawl, but you probably won't be going there anyway.

Seattle/ Vancouver will be a fun trip!

Next time you might try Portland Oregon. It is another interesting small city that is explored easily on foot or bicycle. Lots of fabulous food, many varieties of nightlife, "green" activities, and great (sales tax free) shopping.

Gardyloo nailed it.
Most tourists never venture beyond downtown, so they miss the great neighborhoods we have (at least, they are great to live in-I guess I don't know from a tourist's perspective).

Some to check out:

Fremont (the Burke-Gilman Bike trail runs through here, nearby Gas Works Park has great views and is off the beaten tourist path)

Ballard, in the Ballard Ave. area (the Locks and Golden Gardens park are in Ballard, too).

Capitol Hill, particularly the Pike/Pine corridor for shops, bars, restaurants, and 15th Ave, for Volunteer Park, with the view water tower and conservatory, Lakeview Cemetery, beautiful historic homes between 15th and 19th east of Volunteer Park, and good restaurants, coffeehouses, etc along 15th south of Volunteer Park

Queen Anne Hill-Great views from Kerry Park, and a neat "neighborhood downtown" on top of the hill on Queen Anne Ave.

Madison Park-some good lakefront parks, a neat little downtown area, the Washington Park arboretum, and lots of pretty, old homes. In summers they periodically close off Lake Washington Blvd. so people can bicycle along it-if you like biking this would be great:
http://www.ci.seattle.wa.us/parks/at...bikesatsun.htm

Alki: Has a beachy, almost California type feel. Great city views, people watching, funky little old houses mixed with glassy new condos

You will need to rent a car to hike-there are fantastic hiking trails to alpine lakes, meadows, jagged peaks, etc, within an hour of the city, but there is no public transport.

I have to respectfully disagree with the poster that stated Seattle's public transportation was excellent. I visited Seattle last February and loved the city, but my experiences there would have been much more limited and complex had I not had a friend there with a car. That being said, I absolutely loved the city of Seattle and found it very charming. I would like visit again if I could as I only spent 3 days there and don't really feel like I got to see much.

Good pt vs bad pt- in Seattle, it really depends on where you want to go or what you want to do. Part of the fun of Seattle is that there is soooo much to do in the surrounding areas- so if you want to day trip, you can't survive without a car. Also true if you need to visit family in the suburbs. However, if you stay in the great neighborhoods and downtown and don't care about daytrips- the public transportation is excellent- very easy and convenient. Since you're a first time visitor, you can easily spend an entire week or more simply walking around downtown and enjoying the city, so public tranportation will be great for you!

Seattle has neighbourhoods with charm or distinctive character, has lovely parks, has beautiful water views, has some scenic bike rides and bike rental places

- Seattle has all this and more. It's very scenic with great neighborhoods- and has a quirky charm you will not find anywhere else.....Definitely don't miss Queen Anne Hill....

I thought the neighborhoods and ferry system were fantastic, but I felt that the downtown area and Pike Place Market were boring, especially compared to Boston, Chicago, or Toronto. In particular, the way the downtown is cut off from the waterfront by highways, railroads, and arterials streets was a disappointment. Your mileage may vary.

Daniel,

I like the way you write.

"Charming" isn't the word that comes to mind when I think of my hometown.

Seattle has a spectacular natural setting between two bodies of water--Puget Sound to the west and Lake Washington to the east.

On a clear day, mountains can be seen in all directions: the Olympics in the west and the Cascades in the east. Mt. Rainier looms on the horizon to the south, and Mt. Baker--near the Canadian border--is visible in the north.

IMHO, there are few, if any, places in the world with scenic beauty that surpasses Seattle's natural setting.

Seattle used to be a rather scruffy place. Today, a few interesting neighborhoods survive amid the mallification of the city, and we have many beautiful residential neighborhoods.

Come, see.

Happy Trails to You

<<if you think Seattle has neighbourhoods with charm or distinctive character, has lovely parks, has beautiful water views, has>>

Seattle is beautiful with loads of great views of the mountains and water (both Sound and two Lakes, when the weather's clear you see the 2 mt. ranges plus Rainier). I don't think of it as "charming" exactly though. It's kind of big for that.

What Seattle does have is lots of close-in nice old residential neighborhoods (Capitol Hill and Queen Anne for example). And loads of huge old trees (for tree-lined streets check out the neighborhood around Volunteer Park as already mentioned above).

I wouldn't call public transpo excellent but it is perfectly adequate and allows you to get around the city without a rental car (check out the Metro bus website for schedules and options).

Good stuff this.

I recognize that "charm" is very subjective. For me, it tends to be some sort of personal stamp (like all those beautiful adornments on the San Francisco rowhouses or NYC brownstones or colourful homes of Halifax, NS); nice scenery and watching people enjoying the simpler pleasures of life in parks, on beaches (like in Vancouver) seem to influence how charmed I get too.

Thanks Toucan, lcuy, christy1, HTTY, vittrad, moosely, suze for offering up your personal perspectives!

Although a number of years passed before I finally went through with a Pacific Northwest trip, I wanted to thank you for convincing me to spend 4 days in Seattle (although a year later than intended). I had a blast and indeed think Seattle is charming. Please read my trip report if interested.

Sincerely, DAN

Seattle Trip Report

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...1&tid=35140799

Thanks for the report.

Thanks for the update. Better late than never ;-)

Thanks for this report; it is of great help for my trip tomorrow.

I'm glad. Wishing you as enjoyable a trip as I had...

D. Williams

I just took two out of town friends to Seattle for the day, and it was interesting to see the city from their point of view. They enjoyed the ferry rides, the Columbia Tower views, the public library, and Pike Place Market.

However, they (and I, for that matter) were less than enchanted with the large numbers of vagrants, panhandlers and likely prostitutes who have more or less taken over Westlake Park. The walk from Westlake down to the Market (on Pine) was a bit intimidating for them, and there was not a Seattle PD representative in sight.

We did not get to Pioneer Square, but the aggressive homeless/transient situation there is also noticeable.

My friends are not unsophisticated: one lives in Orange County CA and the other in Tokyo, but I didn't like the reflection of my city that I was seeing in their eyes.

Seattle needs to get a handle on this problem, and fast. I have lived in this area for twelve years, and for me, much of downtown has lost its charm.