Lost in AZ and UT
Jul 9th, 2007, 11:45 AM
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Lost in AZ and UT
Hi everybody
Whether wisely or not, my hub, self and son are planning a US cross-country next year (June, from the UK - and we only have just over 3 weeks to do it in. The plans are more-or-less done, but we are a bit stuck in between Santa Fe and Palm Springs! We have 6 nights to play with and *must* sees are Monument Valley and Death Valley. We've 'done' Grand Canyon, Zion, Bryce, Sedona, Petrified Forest, Meteor Crater (and Vegas) on previous trips. What we haven't seen are Canyon de Chelly and Arches. I have, half pencilled in,
Day 1 Santa Fe to Chinle
Day 2 Chinle to Monument Valley
Day 3 MV to Moab
Day 4 Somewhere in between Moab and Vegas; anywhere will do that's convenient
Day 5 Vegas
Day 6 Death Valley
and then on to Palm Springs etc.
This is do-able - but my concerns are that we will not actually have time to see anything - ie not enough time to take an organised trip at Chelly (although we should have enough time at MV) or to do much hiking at Arches. So my question is, are these places still worth seeing, if we don't get to see much of them?
Thanks.
Whether wisely or not, my hub, self and son are planning a US cross-country next year (June, from the UK - and we only have just over 3 weeks to do it in. The plans are more-or-less done, but we are a bit stuck in between Santa Fe and Palm Springs! We have 6 nights to play with and *must* sees are Monument Valley and Death Valley. We've 'done' Grand Canyon, Zion, Bryce, Sedona, Petrified Forest, Meteor Crater (and Vegas) on previous trips. What we haven't seen are Canyon de Chelly and Arches. I have, half pencilled in,
Day 1 Santa Fe to Chinle
Day 2 Chinle to Monument Valley
Day 3 MV to Moab
Day 4 Somewhere in between Moab and Vegas; anywhere will do that's convenient
Day 5 Vegas
Day 6 Death Valley
and then on to Palm Springs etc.
This is do-able - but my concerns are that we will not actually have time to see anything - ie not enough time to take an organised trip at Chelly (although we should have enough time at MV) or to do much hiking at Arches. So my question is, are these places still worth seeing, if we don't get to see much of them?
Thanks.
Jul 9th, 2007, 12:46 PM
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Yes, worth seeing!
Day 4, can't think of anything to see between Moab and Vegas except North Rim Grand Canyon (but you said you have seen it and Zion). There is a town about an hour from Vegas, Mesquite if you just need a stopping place.
Or driving via Capital Reef Park to Vegas might be worthwhile. Nice scenery and drive.
Hope this helps
Day 4, can't think of anything to see between Moab and Vegas except North Rim Grand Canyon (but you said you have seen it and Zion). There is a town about an hour from Vegas, Mesquite if you just need a stopping place.
Or driving via Capital Reef Park to Vegas might be worthwhile. Nice scenery and drive.
Hope this helps
Jul 9th, 2007, 01:14 PM
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Allow almost a full day at Canyon de Chelly -- get there early enough to spend several hours driving a rim road and stopping at overlooks, then take a take guided trip into the canyon in the afternoon.
The drive from Chinle to Monument Valley is pretty quick (2+ hours, minimal awesome scenery demanding photo ops) but MV at midday is not nearly as stunning as at sunrise or sunset.
Or if you reach Chinle in the late afternoon, do a rim drive then, and the guided canyon tour the next morning, leaving after lunch for MV to reach there in the late afternoon, but well before sunset. Mid-June will have sunsets around 8:00 in Navajo territory (9:00 in the rest of Arizona). It is a spectacular area and you will love it.
The drive from Chinle to Monument Valley is pretty quick (2+ hours, minimal awesome scenery demanding photo ops) but MV at midday is not nearly as stunning as at sunrise or sunset.
Or if you reach Chinle in the late afternoon, do a rim drive then, and the guided canyon tour the next morning, leaving after lunch for MV to reach there in the late afternoon, but well before sunset. Mid-June will have sunsets around 8:00 in Navajo territory (9:00 in the rest of Arizona). It is a spectacular area and you will love it.
Jul 9th, 2007, 01:23 PM
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Don't go to Canyon de Chelly unless you have time for the tour. There's not much to see except views from the rim unless you take a tour into the canyon.
These are huge distances that you are driving and you probably wont have much time at the sights. Is it worth the long drive to spend part of a day in Arches? Same thing with Monument Valley. You need to spend several days there.
I also would not encourage you to visit Death Valley in June. It's a furnace then. It's a winter/early spring destination. Only crazy Europeans go there in the summer. Unless you can get out of the car and hike in the canyons or the dunes, it's not worth going.
Palm Springs will also be blazing hot. From Vegas, I would go up to Yosemite or Lake Tahoe instead.
These are huge distances that you are driving and you probably wont have much time at the sights. Is it worth the long drive to spend part of a day in Arches? Same thing with Monument Valley. You need to spend several days there.
I also would not encourage you to visit Death Valley in June. It's a furnace then. It's a winter/early spring destination. Only crazy Europeans go there in the summer. Unless you can get out of the car and hike in the canyons or the dunes, it's not worth going.
Palm Springs will also be blazing hot. From Vegas, I would go up to Yosemite or Lake Tahoe instead.
Jul 9th, 2007, 01:43 PM
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Thanks GrannyJane - I will look up Mesquite - anywhere will do for just a night's stop - but if there's something of interest, all the better! Thanks - you've made me decide to definitely go for it!
Thanks too, Kayd - yes, I think we should be able to take the morning trip at Chinle and then also the morning trip at MV - we'll try for that anyway.
Erm, Supercilious - I've just got back from blazing Seville and, despite being a crazy European, I've missed out on Death Valley twice already and am ready to roast!
I didn't think they were huge distances - just little ones, by comparison to those we've done before or intend to do on this trip. Palm Springs I have had 2nd thoughts about, but the villa's are very cheap (because it's too hot!). Anyway, cheers - what you say is very sensible, but leave can only be taken at certain times and we've made up our minds. If we went in the winter, we'd freeze in Chicago!
Thanks too, Kayd - yes, I think we should be able to take the morning trip at Chinle and then also the morning trip at MV - we'll try for that anyway.
Erm, Supercilious - I've just got back from blazing Seville and, despite being a crazy European, I've missed out on Death Valley twice already and am ready to roast!
I didn't think they were huge distances - just little ones, by comparison to those we've done before or intend to do on this trip. Palm Springs I have had 2nd thoughts about, but the villa's are very cheap (because it's too hot!). Anyway, cheers - what you say is very sensible, but leave can only be taken at certain times and we've made up our minds. If we went in the winter, we'd freeze in Chicago!
Jul 9th, 2007, 02:21 PM
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In all honesty, I think you are going to be spending way to much time driving to enjoy anything. I'd skip either Moab/Arches (because this area needs at least two full days and three would be much better) or skip Las Vegas (since you've been) and Death Valley...don't worry...you'll roast in Arizona and Utah.
Utahtea
Utahtea
Jul 9th, 2007, 02:51 PM
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Hi utateah
I've spoken to you before when you kindly gave me great advice on Bryce and Zion, back in 2004!
I'm very dithery on what to do! I know there's a long time to go before the trip (nearly a full year!), but know from experience that you need to at least have a general idea if you want to book accommodation in the Parks. At the moment (or at this second - it might change in the next!), I'm thinking about swapping Canyon de Chelly for Durango, then MV and then Arches. Still dithering on Death Valley. yes, am fully aware it's VERY hot, but I would dearly love to see it. However, all is up for change!
We would love to spend more time at these places, but we just cannot. We are in our fifties and this might be our last trip to the US; you don't know what's around the corner with health etc - and we always promised ourselves we'd do a cross-country trip. We are not great hikers anyway - we love to just travel the roads and stop at the diners and savour everything that your beautiful country has to offer - and this includes your polite, friendly people and your sandwiches! I remember, on our first morning on our first trip to the USA. I woke at about 6 am and sat outside on the terrace of our room in Scottsdale, AZ, for a smoke. It was my birthday! As I sat there, a cactus just came in flower and there were birds I'd never seen before. What made my heart completely leap, was the sight of a hummingbird! I remember saying to my hub that even if we had to leave the country and fly home, that afternoon, that the trip and the cost was worth it, just for that alone!
But I asked the question and I'm grateful for your responses. Ta!
I've spoken to you before when you kindly gave me great advice on Bryce and Zion, back in 2004!
I'm very dithery on what to do! I know there's a long time to go before the trip (nearly a full year!), but know from experience that you need to at least have a general idea if you want to book accommodation in the Parks. At the moment (or at this second - it might change in the next!), I'm thinking about swapping Canyon de Chelly for Durango, then MV and then Arches. Still dithering on Death Valley. yes, am fully aware it's VERY hot, but I would dearly love to see it. However, all is up for change!
We would love to spend more time at these places, but we just cannot. We are in our fifties and this might be our last trip to the US; you don't know what's around the corner with health etc - and we always promised ourselves we'd do a cross-country trip. We are not great hikers anyway - we love to just travel the roads and stop at the diners and savour everything that your beautiful country has to offer - and this includes your polite, friendly people and your sandwiches! I remember, on our first morning on our first trip to the USA. I woke at about 6 am and sat outside on the terrace of our room in Scottsdale, AZ, for a smoke. It was my birthday! As I sat there, a cactus just came in flower and there were birds I'd never seen before. What made my heart completely leap, was the sight of a hummingbird! I remember saying to my hub that even if we had to leave the country and fly home, that afternoon, that the trip and the cost was worth it, just for that alone!
But I asked the question and I'm grateful for your responses. Ta!
Jul 9th, 2007, 11:21 PM
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I'd choose Canyon de Chelly over Durango. If you do Durango, you need to drive the Million Dollar highway to Ouray to really see the mountains.
If you only have a short time and maybe not going to be coming back...then do your route..a glimps is better than never at all!
Do you really have to go to Palm Springs? I'd drop that in a heart beat!
Utahtea
If you only have a short time and maybe not going to be coming back...then do your route..a glimps is better than never at all!
Do you really have to go to Palm Springs? I'd drop that in a heart beat!
Utahtea
Jul 9th, 2007, 11:59 PM
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If you are going to Palm Springs, dont overlook the possibility of seeing Joshua Tree National Forest. And it was interesting to us to drive a few miles further toward Mecca (my map does not show the route number) to see evidences of the San Andreas Fault having heard so much about it.
Jul 10th, 2007, 02:35 AM
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Hi utahtea
I think I'm getting flustered and bothered in trying to get this trip perfect! There are worst problems to have to deal with!
I thought Durango as it would break up the journey to MV. But perhaps that's doable in one go and still give us time to do the tour.
No, we don't have to go to Palm Springs! We've just come back from a wonderful trip to Portugal where we stayed in our own villa with our own private pool and it was totally idyllic - so we would like to end our long cross-country USA trip with a few days lolling around a pool - it doesn't really matter where - but Palm Springs has some luxurious properties at very low rent (because it's so hot in the summer, no doubt!) We haven't been there, and would like to visit, but perhaps one night would do and we could rent somewhere a bit cooler! I have a place in Fallbrook (north of San Diego) on my list. Is the weather good there? I wouldn't want to swim in a pool if it was cold - LOL!
Anyway, I have to stop planning for a while and get on with some work! I would be happier if we flew from the east coast to the west, but husband says that's 'cheating'!! But I'm trying to get the middle bit over with as quickly as possible, and have already dumped Cape Cod and Niagara (for another trip, hopefully), and have some really long driving distances (400 miles per day). Current plan is NYC 3 nights, Cleveland (or thereabouts), Chicago 2 nights, St Louis (or thereabouts), Memphis, then across to OKC, Amarillo and up to Santa Fe, before doing the AZ, UT, NV bits and ending up in California. Our last night, before flying home, is planned for Laguna Beach.
I think I'm getting flustered and bothered in trying to get this trip perfect! There are worst problems to have to deal with!
I thought Durango as it would break up the journey to MV. But perhaps that's doable in one go and still give us time to do the tour.
No, we don't have to go to Palm Springs! We've just come back from a wonderful trip to Portugal where we stayed in our own villa with our own private pool and it was totally idyllic - so we would like to end our long cross-country USA trip with a few days lolling around a pool - it doesn't really matter where - but Palm Springs has some luxurious properties at very low rent (because it's so hot in the summer, no doubt!) We haven't been there, and would like to visit, but perhaps one night would do and we could rent somewhere a bit cooler! I have a place in Fallbrook (north of San Diego) on my list. Is the weather good there? I wouldn't want to swim in a pool if it was cold - LOL!
Anyway, I have to stop planning for a while and get on with some work! I would be happier if we flew from the east coast to the west, but husband says that's 'cheating'!! But I'm trying to get the middle bit over with as quickly as possible, and have already dumped Cape Cod and Niagara (for another trip, hopefully), and have some really long driving distances (400 miles per day). Current plan is NYC 3 nights, Cleveland (or thereabouts), Chicago 2 nights, St Louis (or thereabouts), Memphis, then across to OKC, Amarillo and up to Santa Fe, before doing the AZ, UT, NV bits and ending up in California. Our last night, before flying home, is planned for Laguna Beach.
Jul 10th, 2007, 02:37 AM
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Hi pollyvw
Yes, Joshua Tree is on my list! We saw loads of those trees when we were in Calif before - but not been to the national park. Thanks for the tip about Mecca, which I've found on my map - but also can't find a road number. Very interesting - just my kind of thing!
Yes, Joshua Tree is on my list! We saw loads of those trees when we were in Calif before - but not been to the national park. Thanks for the tip about Mecca, which I've found on my map - but also can't find a road number. Very interesting - just my kind of thing!
Jul 10th, 2007, 04:30 AM
#12
It sounds like you will be in DV and Palm Springs near the end of June. You could not pay me to go to Death Valley or Palms Springs at that time of year. HOT does not come close to describing it. It will be much too hot to go outdoors after about 9 or 10 a.m. -- even to go in the pool.
There is a reason the rates are so low. And even so, they cannot sell many rooms. Both places will be deserted except for a few barmy German and British visitors.
So to give you more time for the rest of your itinerary you can drop DV and PS and add those days. Or - spend the time in San Diego.
There is a reason the rates are so low. And even so, they cannot sell many rooms. Both places will be deserted except for a few barmy German and British visitors.
So to give you more time for the rest of your itinerary you can drop DV and PS and add those days. Or - spend the time in San Diego.
Jul 10th, 2007, 06:28 AM
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Yes, it's worth the stop anyway. Canyon de chelly, you can do a 4 hr tour. We did an early morning one and not too bad. The drive to MV was nice too and we did another tour there (sunset tour) too but then slept in Kayenta.
I was in Death Valley in July a few years back and it was really hot but the heat added to "being in Death Valley". It's a spectacular place and shouldn't be missed. The higher points like Aguerberry, are cooler since you are higher up but a place not to be missed there is the playa with the moving rocks. Really spectacular pictures can be taken there. Scotty's castle was also a nice stop.
I was in Death Valley in July a few years back and it was really hot but the heat added to "being in Death Valley". It's a spectacular place and shouldn't be missed. The higher points like Aguerberry, are cooler since you are higher up but a place not to be missed there is the playa with the moving rocks. Really spectacular pictures can be taken there. Scotty's castle was also a nice stop.
Jul 10th, 2007, 06:37 AM
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meant to say "yes it is worth the stop anyway, especially if you think this will be your last trip to the US. As Utahtea said, better to have a glimpse than not at all and anyway, you enjoy the road travelling and not hikers."
I don't know why that didn't show up at all....
I don't know why that didn't show up at all....
Jul 10th, 2007, 07:00 AM
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Hi wildblueyonder,
Palm Springs and Death Valley (in summer) are NOT the places to waste your very short and precious time!
I would highly recommend re-vamping this trip and see some of the things that are much more WOW. Monument Valley, Canyon de Chelly, Arches.
Fallbrook???? You have GOT to be kidding. Nice, I guess if you like avocado ranches.
Palm Springs and Death Valley (in summer) are NOT the places to waste your very short and precious time!
I would highly recommend re-vamping this trip and see some of the things that are much more WOW. Monument Valley, Canyon de Chelly, Arches.
Fallbrook???? You have GOT to be kidding. Nice, I guess if you like avocado ranches.
Jul 10th, 2007, 07:15 AM
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Hi y'all
Maria - you sound like a person after my own heart - yes, Let's Do It!! Maybe us Europeans are more hardy than you Americans, janisj <very big grin> And Palm Springs is actually cooler than LV today! (Although I would prefer to avoid LV anyway ....) There were about 10 times as many barmy (though probably hardy!
Americans in Seville last week, as Brits, where the temp was well over 100 - but, like us, they seemed to be enjoying themselves (and crouched, sweating in shady corners, clutching their precious bottles of water!)
Seriously, how far is it to walk (from car) to the viewpoints in Death Valley? Like Artist's Pallete, Zabrinski Point and Badwater? If a long way, then it probably wouldn't be wise to try (but we probably still will). I just want to experience it - I deeply regret not going to the park, when we were very close (Baker) a couple of years ago. We don't intend to drive far - just inside the park and out again - maybe we won't even spend the night. And it wouldn't be the same if it was a comfortable temperature!
Fallbrook? It's just that there's a nice place to crash there - up in the hills but convenient to SD and the beaches. Avocado ranches sound cool!
Cheers, guys - all your comments/suggestions are mulling around my head.
Maria - you sound like a person after my own heart - yes, Let's Do It!! Maybe us Europeans are more hardy than you Americans, janisj <very big grin> And Palm Springs is actually cooler than LV today! (Although I would prefer to avoid LV anyway ....) There were about 10 times as many barmy (though probably hardy!
Americans in Seville last week, as Brits, where the temp was well over 100 - but, like us, they seemed to be enjoying themselves (and crouched, sweating in shady corners, clutching their precious bottles of water!)Seriously, how far is it to walk (from car) to the viewpoints in Death Valley? Like Artist's Pallete, Zabrinski Point and Badwater? If a long way, then it probably wouldn't be wise to try (but we probably still will). I just want to experience it - I deeply regret not going to the park, when we were very close (Baker) a couple of years ago. We don't intend to drive far - just inside the park and out again - maybe we won't even spend the night. And it wouldn't be the same if it was a comfortable temperature!
Fallbrook? It's just that there's a nice place to crash there - up in the hills but convenient to SD and the beaches. Avocado ranches sound cool!
Cheers, guys - all your comments/suggestions are mulling around my head.
Jul 10th, 2007, 07:19 AM
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The only reason to go to Death Valley in the summer would be to say you've been out in 120 degree heat. We went in august and looking back, it wasn't the brightest idea. You couldn't spend more than 20 min outside of the car, because it was like standing in a heater. There was no relief, even at night. We couldn't do more than about a 1/4 mile hike or else we would be overheated, and so mostly we just drove around and looked from the car.
But, if you want to try it, there are a few people who do.
But, if you want to try it, there are a few people who do.
Jul 10th, 2007, 07:54 AM
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Hiya - no, I just want to SEE it (I've just finished a degree in geology and those sorts of things interest me!) - I don't mind if it's from the car; I'm not a very fit geologist! It's my only real chance - this is a special trip - we can't afford to go flying to the USA on whims in different seasons, I'm afraid.
And I am a pretty cautious person, believe it or not! Last year, I finished my degree off with a report on the risk and mitigation of lahars from Mt Rainier. And (coincidentally) we did a trip of the Pacific North West, Yellowstone and Canadian Rockies last year - so we went to visit 'my mountain'. Because of all the research I'd done, I was afraid to sleep in the valleys in case of mudflows - LOL!
And I am a pretty cautious person, believe it or not! Last year, I finished my degree off with a report on the risk and mitigation of lahars from Mt Rainier. And (coincidentally) we did a trip of the Pacific North West, Yellowstone and Canadian Rockies last year - so we went to visit 'my mountain'. Because of all the research I'd done, I was afraid to sleep in the valleys in case of mudflows - LOL!
Jul 10th, 2007, 08:19 AM
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Cheers, dockruins - will do!
Now then, that's decided - now where to rent this darned villa ....
Palm Springs and various nearby towns, Beverley Hills(although only a tiddler), Santa Barbara (a bit dear) Anaheim or Fallbrook? (These are the only ones I could find with pool, at reasonable cost, which would rent for less than a week).
Now then, that's decided - now where to rent this darned villa ....
Palm Springs and various nearby towns, Beverley Hills(although only a tiddler), Santa Barbara (a bit dear) Anaheim or Fallbrook? (These are the only ones I could find with pool, at reasonable cost, which would rent for less than a week).
