Bob

Know what I'm saying?

Mike

This is a significant point. Business shuttle services will see a hit from this and I have friends who will be driving from CT to VA for the holiday this year who used to fly. Have airlines been cutting back on these routes specifically? I know Delta Comair has laid off pilots.

Miss Daisy

With all due respect, there is a valid reason to continue to fly even if it takes as long or longer than driving: If you do not like to drive then you are flying not to save time but to avoid driving. I will continue to opt for planes over cars b/c I hate driving!

Suzie

Now that gas prices have dropped here in CA it might contribute to more driving within the state. I'd say many times we'd fly because going from N CA to S CA for a holiday is just very long in the car. But at least you're moving. Many times we've been delayed at the airport and the final time saving was minimal but the energy we saved from being in the car 6-8 hours answering the perennial question "how many more minutes?" coming from the back seat was far more important that the time.

Leone

Really, you come to that conclusion? Try this one: 3 hour flight would nortmally mean 1200-1500 miles in distance. Okay, 2 more hours for security, and lets throw in two hours for to/from the airport. Seven hours. Okay driving: averaging 60, looks like 20-25 hours in your car. Can we throw in a little time for meals and gas, and do you plan to rest or just drive straight through? Look, am I missing something ... I just don't see this obvious case for driving. Not to be critical, but this site seems to have its share of folks who want to turn the clock back to the 19th Century. Ciao

xxx

Leone is correct, assuming a non-stop flight. But throw in a stop or two and a security breach and Bob's calculations aren't that far off.

Leone

Well, fair enough ... but now lets throw in some other things and tilt this baby back in favor of flying ... now let me see, okay, lets it's a 45-car pile up, no, make that 65 cars, all over both sides of the highway ... wow, let me move that mess to the middle of the Wilson Bridge outside DC, on I95 and in rush-hour traffic, and you're headed for Maine, just as 50,000 bikers try to cross going south to Daytona Beach. Okay, you make Baltimore by the next morning, but there a truck explodes in a tunnel ... fire and smoke close the highway ... you elect to detour back to Annapolis and try to get across the Bay Bridge ... before that ship hits it ... yikes, look out!!! My god, it's gonna hit .... Goodbye to all. Okay, four months later, you're out of the hospital, and ready to shove on north, and you get a flat tire in JN, and you don't have your plaid shorts on, and they profile you ... well, ready to fly when you are. I just love a slow Monday when we can debate something meaningful. Don't you!! Ciao

Leone

JN? How embarrassing ... make that NJ, of course. I mean plaids = NJ ... okay, I know you knew. Ciao

Ann

I find the drive to Ireland to be exceedingly damp.

S

There are several more factors in this drive vs fly debate. How many people in your family are flying? How much are the airline tickets? How far away is the final destination? Will you be forced to make a connecting flight?

For us to visit my in-laws, from our front door to their front door, it's 8 hours "flying." The actual flight time is minimal, maybe 1/3 of that. But when you add driving to the airport, early check-in (even before the days of heightened security), ooops the plane is delayed, a hop to Atlanta, an hour+ layover there, the flight to our final destination, wait for the luggage, head for the rental car agency, fight traffic all the way across town - whew! That took 8 hours when it was just hubby and me! Price tag of $300+ each just for the airline ticket. Another $100 for the rental car. Let's add 2 kids to that equation. Suddenly we're talking a minimum of $1000 just to visit the in-laws for the weekend. Not to mention the hassle of being stuck in an airport and on a plane with children who've become incredibly bored. Arrrgggghhhhh!

Our alternative? 15 passenger van. First and last bench seats out. Luggage in the back. TV/VCR combo in a stand bolted to the floor. Headphones plug into the jacks run up under the seat. If they need more space, one can move to the back seat and have an entire bench seat to themself. They are up high enough, they can see anything they want. A cooler full of whatever we want to eat or drink.

We opt for the drive. Now if it were just hubby and myself, we'd probably fly.

Business wise - there are locations that are about a 5 hour drive away. But by the time you deal with all the normal constraints of flying, the shortest route is a 5 hour minimum. And that's not taking into account weather delays. I've personally seen this happen.

S is Right

The cost factor is also very important. Lets use as an example the Newark to Cleveland route. Driving takes about 8 hours, door to door. Flying, you figure 2 hours in the air, an hour to and from the airport, 2 hours in security, time waiting for luggage and picking up the rental and you're already over 8 hours and into several hundred dollars.

You drive and you leave when you want and you get there when you want. No security to clear, no crowds to hassle with, no luggage to get lost and the best part, the trip costs $1.22 per gallon, plus tolls.

L

No, please, I give in .... no more pain, I cannot stand it. Now, how did I end up writhing in pain, pleading for some relief? It was the scenario from S and S's faithful companion. Those two painted such a fearsome picture my skin cells were crying for mercy. Visiting the in-laws. The kids, all plugged in ... you know, the type who are bored flying. The 15-seat rental van ... sans seats. TV bolted to the floor (to keep it from being ejected by restless kids, no doubt). A cooler of beverages. Eight or whatever hours in this envirnonment. And as if that weren't enough, we get the Newark-Cleveland add-on. By that time, I was dying ... Cleveland just completed the job. I suppose the only reason for going to Cleveland is you're already in Newark. My god, what an imagination ... you should be writing scripts for Freddie Kruger Redux. I'm not even sure I'll be able to keep my turkey down. Thank goodness I'm on planes, free as a bird, and they are down below, in traffic. And who says life is not fair! Ciao

Lori

Sorry, I like S's scenario much more than L's. You can try to poke fun, but I find that tv's are bolted in during airline flights, also. Turbulence, you know (although those bratty kids that belong to someone else are on the plane, also). 8 hours in the environment S painted sounds much more delightful than running through airports, waiting in lines, waiting at gates, waiting, waiting, waiting.

Look! I can see L up in the air, free as a bird! Well, packed into a plane with perfect strangers. Tight. Like sardines. And with a kid kicking the back of the seat.

John

I drove from New Orleans to Houston twice in the past month. Construction delays, idiot drivers...need I go on? I'll fly any day!

Elizabeth

BobO: It is written this way: nome sane?

Ann

If I could fly to my parents' for Thanksgiving, I would. However, the closest (small) airport is 1 hour away. And I would still have to connect to get to that airport. The closest major airport, to which I would get a direct flight, is minimum 2 hours' drive.

So, faced with 5-6 hours drive, or at least that much time trying to fly (and this was pre-9/11), I'm driving.

L

Lori, I actually like the airport atmosphere ... the people, noise, crowds. The lines, so what. It's just other people. It's energizing. Normally kids don't kick the seat backs ... that's one of those myths, like gators in sewers. Every flight, everybody, nothing but kids kicking seats. LOL. And turbulence, turbulence, so frightful? Funny, but I get an aisle seat ... I don't ever feel like a sardine. I have a drink (not supposed to do that while driving, I think) ... get something interesting to read ... look around and tune in on how others are looking, feeling ... it's interesting. Chat up a few. Of course, that's just my personality. I love people, and I feel good being near them. I have confidence in the pilots, the attendants, and eventually the system, if the folks who run it show me the right moves, what I consider the right moves. It took me a lifetime of living to be the way I am ... and my reward is an ability to live. I get scared, of course, who wouldn't ... but stop me from flying ... Yawn. Throw me a hardball, puleeze. Have a great Thanksgiving, in the car, in the air, in the mood. Ciao

Arabella

Great post, Leone! You summed it up superbly for those of us who love to fly.

Have a happy Thanksgiving.

L

And you as well, Arabella ...one the class folks who post in these halls. Ciao

Ess

I wish we had a train system like the TGV in France. You can go the whole distance of that country, from north to south, in a little under three hours. You can sit, read, have a drink, look out the window. I'm not sure how much time it would take our Amtrak system to cover the same distance. But I don't think it's nearly as fast.

No way I'm going to drive for 20 hours somewhere. I don't have that much time, and I don't want to be a zombie when I get there. I'll fly no matter the inconvenience. I'd still rather get there in 8 or 10 hours (that should have been three) than 24!