Hi all

I am new to fodors and am calling on all you guys for help / tips / advice and suggestions...

Me and my girlfriend are visiting in July, we arrive in Vegas on the 22nd July for 3 nights (staying at the MGM) and fly back to the UK on the 19th Aug from LAX.

We have a blank canvas and 4 weeks of travelling to plan / prepare. We will be hiring a car for the majority of the trip (not for the first few days in vegas - and then an option of returning it early on arrival in LA).

I am in need of suggested itineraries, advice and general suggestions for this trip. We are both mid-20's, and an active couple and plan to see as much and do as much as we possibly can, ranging from hiring bikes in national parks and san fran, to hiking in the grand canyon and yosemite.

Here is a list of the places we most want to see along the way:
Vegas (3 days)
Grand Canyon
Zion NP
Bryce Canyon
Death Valley
Kings Canyon and Sequoia
Yosemite
Lake Tahoe (maybe...is it worth it?)
San Fran (3 days) - see the sights - alcatraz, fishermans wharf, etc
Big Sur coastal drive to...
LA (3-4 days)

As you can see we have a lot of gaps to fill, and are planning on booking accom as soon as possible - which means we need to sort our itinerary out as soon as poss.

We are also keen to camp in places - e.g. Yosemite, Grand Canyon, Sequoia (wherever really). what would be the best advice - bring camping kit with us or buy cheap once we land in the US?!

Because we will have the car - we are able to go off the beaten path, see the sights away from the crowds...and hidden gems really worth seeing?!

How long shoud we spend in places!? What is there to see and do!? Our budget is approx $1500 each for the 4 weeks - this will need to cover accom, food and pay for entry fees to tourist attractions.

As you can see we are in need of help and advice - we are both reading up on the area (lonely planet and time-out california) - but i wanted to ask the forum for your real opinion and suggestions...

Thanks

Bryn

One route I would suggest is: You can start your trip by driving north of Vegas to Zion NP which is about 3 hours away. Spend a couple of days there then go over to Bryce NP and spend a couple of days. Then head to Capitol Reef, Arches and Canyonlands. You can camp in all these parks which will help with the budget. Then down through Monument Valley (a drive through will give you plenty of photo ops here). Then over to Page ( stop at Hoeseshoe bend -free hike in one hour- and Antelope canyon - $20 per person if you just go there yourself and take the tour with a Navajo guide two hours). The half day quiet water raft trip on the Colorado river from Page was less than $100 per person, there are also raft trips in the Moab area (near Arches). Then head to the Grand Canyon. North rim is less crowded south a bit more spectacular both have camping and hiking. Probably would want to spend a couple of days at each. Then head back towards Vegas via Hoover Dam. This loop could be done in the other direction if you wanted to check the weather before you leave. Death Valley is awesome but it will be beastly hot in July so think about how much time you will want to spend there. You might want to just head up to Tahoe and/or over to Yosemite, Sequoia and Kings Canyon. I'm not sure if I've left you time to do much more but only you can decide how much time you really want to spend in each place. Be prepared for long drives through spectacular scenery and consider that part of the fun of the trip. Before you leave Vegas, get a cooler and fill it with ice and cheese, cold cuts, fruit etc and lots of water, refill it when you hit a grocery store. You will save time and money eating one or two meals out of it on the road. Get gas whenever the tank gets down a half because some of the places are far from services. Have a fantastic time

Hi!For your trip in Utah, I would suggest you visit the Bryce Canyon, which is smaller and less famous than the Grand Canyon, but equally spectacular. I loved it. We slept at the Bryce Canyon Resort (13500 East Highway 12,Bryce Canyon, UT 84764 US) 330$ for 4 people, two nights with breakfast (in august 2007). Is located near Panghitch, a small village with a couple of restaurants, but in the middle of nowere. Believe me, the Bryce is worth the visit. Have a great time in Utah!

P.S. Arches is probably the most incedible park i've seen in USA after the Yellowstone Park, and i've been there for one day only. I've taken the best pics of my life there.

Alex

It is going to be SOoooo hot in Vegas and Death Valley in late July. Seriously hot. I was in the area one year when it was more than 39 C at midnight. It was too hot to camp.

You will need reservations to camp in Yosemite in July.

I think you need to get a guidebook and start piecing out your drive times/days. There are many good ones out there.

Also, start visiting the National Parks website to get an idea of how to visit the parks. As I said, you will need to secure reservations to camp in Yosemite. I don't know how busy the other parks will be, but in the current state of the economy, I think many local people will head out camping for vacations, to save money.

www.nps.gov

I recommend the South Rim of the Grand Canyon for first timers with limited time. You will love it! What a great trip! Have fun. I grew up in Arizona and still love driving around that area. It never gets old to me. The drive and scenery are as much a part of the charm of the trip as the actual stops and sites. You can't go wrong. The beauty of traveling in that area is that you don't really need reservations for hotels (other than at the Grand Canyon and some of the other more popular parks if you want to stay right on the grounds). If you can map out your general route then you have a lot of flexibility regarding where you stay.

Look into buying an annual park pass if you plan to enter serval national parks. It can sometimes be cheaper. It is $80 compared to $25 for the Grand Canyon pass. Obviously, if you stop at 4 parks depending on the cost of the pass it may be more cost effective. Just go to the NPS.gov to see for yourself.

Happy trails to you!

Also, start visiting Lonely Planet Thorn Tree posting boards where there are more US visitors asking the same questions.

If you plan to hike into the Grand Canyon, get conditioned and well-prepared. It is very very hot the farther down the canyon you go, and people die there every year. You need permits to hike/camp there, and the rangers may look you over and check out your equipment, etc to make sure you are not going to become a rescue victim. They make you pay if you have to be rescued.

Hi there - sounds like a fun trip. Last May we did a small part of your trip. We started in Vegas, rented a car, then on to Zion, NP. We only spent one day in Zion and I wish we had stayed longer. Then we went on to Bryce for a day, Paria River Canyon for 2, Vermillion Cliffs (family there)for 2, Grand Canyon North Rim 1 night, and then to Page for the easy float trip down the Colorado river to Lee's Ferry. We may have stayed longer at GC, but we were meeting more family back in VC, for the float trip. We did a lot of free camping on BLM land. This is primitive camping (no facilities). A challenge with bringing camping equipment is the stove and related fuel. We were given a hard time about that, and we did not have a stove or fuel with us. My stepson lives in that area and he met us with that equipment. We did bring our own backpacks, sleeping bags, water filter pump, and thermarests. My husband's backpack was an external frame pack and we were charged extra for size. Some of the areas that I was dragged to camp on were rugged. We had a 4WD Jeep, thankfully, but we did destroy a tire when we camped north of the North Rim of the GC. The GC camping was great. We could walk right to the Canyon and we were alone. I was quite glad when the boys easily fixed the flat, and we had bought the insurance so we had minimal hassle about the tire. We hiked into the Buckskin Gulch (Paria River Canyon) and spent the night there, which is why we had the backpacks, and why we only spent one day in Zion. I am not sure how easy it would be to buy camping equipment in Vegas or nearby. Some of the locals (Dayle, Spirobulldog) may know.

Just an idea but...

Tent camping in the Southwestern Parks during Jul and Aug could be difficult. It will be blistering hot even at night. Have you considered the parks in the Northern Rocky Mountains, the Pacific Northwest(WA&OR) and/or Northern California? They will provide the better camping experience for those months. You could save the SW parks for a late fall or early spring vacation later on in life.. Inexpensive camping gear can be bought at your local WalMart. Sporting goods stores will charge more for the same kind of "camping stuff".
http://www.nps.gov/

Sounds like a great trip! All of these National Parks will be very crowded in August (mainly with Europeans) but they are quite doable.

Camping is the best way to see them in summer and you will have greater flexibility than if you were to rely on lodging in the parks. You can make reservations in advance but all the parks also have spots for drop-ins too. You just need to know how to grab these. It takes timing and determination. We never make camping reservations when we travel. We don't like to be tied to a schedule.

We have been to all the Parks you mentioned in August and the only one I would caution you against is Death Valley. The summers are too hot there. Only Europeans go there then. They have some masochistic streak, I guess. Zion will be hot too but there are often thunderstorms in August that cool things off. This is the monsoon season in that part of the West.

When you say you have a car and can go off the beaten path, does that mean you will have 4 wheel drive? To get off the beaten path in the Southwest, you need a sturdy 4 wheel drive vehicle or at least high ground clearance. You don't need a Land Rover but a Ford Escape would be nice.

Hi rugbybryn,

You are so lucky to have this much time for a great trip. The bad part is that you intend to do it in the very hottest part of the year in the desert parks. Late srping or early fall would be a much better time to visit these places.

You won't be off the beaten path at any of the Nal Parks unless you do some hiking. Then you will leave the crowds behind. Camping, as others above have mentioned, will just be TOO HOT in Zion, Arches, Death Valley. I would try to reserve lodging in those locations! Caming at Bryce in summer is lovely. It's much higher in altitude so temps are warm (80's), but not too hot. Yosemite is also usually in the 80's, but will vary between the valley floor and the upper parts of the park like Toulome (SP?) Meadows which is again much higher.

I also would recommend saving these parks for another trip and heading to the north for July and August. I live in UT and for summer I head for Yellowstone and the Tetons. You could have a fantastic trip visiting Yosemite, SF, Oregon Coast and the Columbia Gorge, then going over to Glacier, Yellowstone, Tetons, amd maybe finishing in Rocky Mtn Natl Park.

If you do try to camp in the Natl Parks, you really should make res. Lots of people are competing for those spots and even more are completing for the "walk in" unreserved spots. The best strategy is to be at the campground no later than 8am and literally pull into your camp spot as someone else is pulling out! If you are willing to camp outside the parks in the National Forest campgrounds, your odds are only slightly better. In UT, most of the forest campgrounds fill every weekend. There are lots of outdoors people here!

Either way, have fun.

Camping in most National Parks is fine even in the summer. It does cool down at night when in higher elevations. It might be somewhat uncomfortable at lower elevations, but I've camped in the summer in Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, Colorado, Arizona and enjoyed the trip. If I can get to a higher elevation within 20 miles, I usually do so.

As for camping equipment, I would simply go to a store such as Target or K-Mart and spend $250 or so on cheap camping equipment including cooking implements. Given the price of motels and eating out, a week of camping in public campgrounds will have you come out ahead.

Hint on campgrounds: Almost any map will indicate National Forest areas. These contain isolated campgrounds that usually are not as crowded as campgrounds in National Parks. If you do not have a reservation, you should arrive at the campground before noon to insure a campsite--even in many National Forests. I believe that the campground on the eastern end of the Grand Canyon is on a first come, first serve basis.

Since you're flying in from UK, renting a vehicle, needing necessities to camp, you'll want to keep extra 'stuff' to a minimum. But you may discover helpful advice on essential items to pack for a western US road trip from Fodorites who responded to my last yrs' post.

http://www.fodors.com/community/trav...-road-trip.cfm

If you click on my name you will find a couple of camping trip reports which you may find useful even though they do not cover the area you intend to visit.

Definitely buy a national parks pass at the first park you visit; you'll save money.

If you really want to spend time in Vegas and Death Valley in the summer, be sure you have lots and lots of water. People aren't exaggerating when they tell you how hot it will be!

Lee Ann

I forgot to mention - if you haven't booked your airfare yet, take a look at Air New Zealand. They fly from LAX to Heathrow; economy has a good amount of legroom, pretty decent food, and you'll be fairly comfortable.

Lee Ann

Skip Vegas and visit the parks with the extra time

Thank you so much for all your advice! We have booked vegas and are setting aside 2 days next week to sit and plan the rest of the trip! We will be using all the helpful tips and pointers received here!

Would anyone here want to buy a used tent once we're inished with it stateside?! Save bringing one over from the UK (and back again) - we'll prob take the advice and buy a 2-3 man bargain in target or k-mart! Would happily sell this on once its served its purpose!

I doubt that you will get a buyer for a cheap used tent. Just donate what you purchased in the States for camping to the nearest Goodwill; or find a homeless encampment (they are sprouting in all big cities) that will be happy to take the stuff off your hands.

Buy a Coleman 7x5 Sundome Tent at Target. It's pretty well made and is easy to put up. It's about $50. I buy one every year and then throw it away after Burning Man.