LoveItaly

I never stay at Fisherman's Wharf and only go to the area of what I think of as the "tourist area" if I have a grandson with me that wants to.

Wish Fisherman's Wharf was like it was when I was growing up..but nothing remains the same.

Taking a walk along the waterfront is beautiful, all along the waterfront along the SF Bay.

Regarding Fisherman Wharf. I can understand why tourist stay there, especially if they have children.

Others like to stay on NobHill, I don't like to stay there either.

And Chinatown is certainly mostly "touristy".

Union Square is not like it used to be either. The Disney Store is there just like at a mall, I Magnins is gone etc. As far as I am concerned the lobby at the St. Francis and the former Compass Rose Room has been ruined. The area has become more or less like a suburban mall in some ways.

OK, I don't enjoy SF like I always have in the pass. And having ancestors that came to SF right after the Civil War..from New Hampshire..I feel I can say that whether anyone agrees or not.

I sure wish anyone coming to visit San Francisco has a wonderful time!!
But as the saying goes "you can't go home".

jtrandolph

Echoing LoveItaly....those of us who remember Fisherman's Wharf when it WAS that, rather than acres of flimsy booths blocking views of the bay don't have particular positive feelings about the area. Sure, there were stores selling souvenirs, sometimes tacky ones, but it has now become overwhelmed by that kind of commerce. I don't find it even pleasant to be there.

daisy58

I was born in San Francisco, lived there til I was 10 (so so very very long ago I now live about 40 minutes
north. I know the city has it's "cheezy" areas, as well as not-so-great areas. Yeah, Fishermans wharf area can get kinda tedious if you do not know where to go..but I gotta tell you..(I know some grouchy native people will flip ) the steet cars soooo
bring back childhood memories every time I go on them (yes native SF'ns you know it too, don't deny it!) I still love Chinatown (dim sum..yummm)
AND HOW 'BOUT THOSE GIANTS!!!!!! When I was a girl, we lived in the Sunset District, near the zoo, you could, than at the zoo, buy waxpaper bags of fish to feed the seals, the memory of the scents still makes me smile! AND
THE BEST OF ALL...I was fortunate to be a child when playland at the beach was still in existance...which brings me back to tourist Fishermans Wharf, there is a museum, at the end of the curve of FW restaurants, next to the bay, behind the wharf parking area,
where there is, among other interesting things, upon entry, the sight (and sound!) of "Laughing Sal"
which, quite honestly, you have to be a native San Franciscan "in the day"
or a nostalgia trivia junkie, to truly appreciate, as I do, for reason #1.
Back to tourist SF, the reason ANY city is labeled tourist anything, is because it it, mostly the best snapshot and memories the individual city has to offer, ie Paris Latin Quarter and Champs'Elysees,Big Ben, Hyde Park, Harrod's in London, Shanghai in China, you get the picture, not to say FW is the best SF has to offer (not in my opinion, but fun to do) but I think that if you are fortunate to live in (near) really any touristed area in the world, you can allow yourself to be blinded to it's charm, by it's convenience. Think of us poor souls who have to suffer the tourists in our Sonoma/Napa California area , drinking our wine, eating our gourmet cuisine..the agony...

Catbert

Anyone want to hear Laughing Sal?

http://www.mistersf.com/high/index.h...ecanique15.htm

LoveItaly

Ah Catbert, Laughing Sal! She use to scare the daylights out of me when I was a little girl. Did she scare you Daisy? Playland..fun times and memories!!

Catbert

I thought the Fun House was the most amazing place on earth. Can you imagine most of those things being legal now? Air hoses that blew up the ladies dresses when they walked in the door; a table you sit on and it spins until everyone flies off; the revolving barrel. And that slide that you had to be sure you were all on the burlap bag or you'd get burns. We must have been a much less litigious society in those days.

dovima

Re: Playland
You guys bring some great memories. A field trip to Playland was the height of our school-sponsored summer activities program. I mean, can you imagine that today? I'm surprised no one broke their little necks!

LoveItaly and jtrandolph, I certainly do remember Fisherman's Wharf when it was the stomping ground of those who owned and operated fishing boats. Herring season especially, with great flocks of seagulls clamouring around the returning fleet. Even more poignant, I remember the Embarcadero as a series of working docks for merchant ships from around the world. We really were a first-class seagoing city in those days.

Chinatown always had those junky shops. I regret my parents never let me have the one thing for sale in them that I wanted so badly: A ceramic sign that said "We don't swim in your toilet - so don't pee in our pool!" What that had to do with Chinese culture I don't know.

christy1

My family first visited SF when us kids were 10-15 years old. We went to Fisherman's Wharf-everyone said you had to-and even us kids felt like we'd been duped. We tried to find what was good and fun about the area but it just seemed sleazy. So thank you to those people that go against the guidebooks (Fodor's has it as their #1 thing to do on a 3 day trip!!!) and warn tourists that it may not be all it's cracked up to be.

Why are people talking like Fisherman's Wharf is the only place to see the pretty bay scenery? There are tons of great places to enjoy the bay scenery (ie Crissy Field, the Maritime National Park, the Ferry Building area).

And, there are PLENTY of people that complain about how touristy Chinatown is-it's not where you go anymore to eat good Chinese food or to see an urban subculture.

jtrandolph

Catbert,

I, too, remember laughing Sal, and imagine my amazement when I read that she has been "rescued" frombanishment and now lives, in refurbished glory, at the Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk. Since it is closed for the season I haven't been down to see her yet, but as soon as it reopens, I'll be there.

SAB

Yes I'm a local, and if you asked me should we go to the Wharf, my honest answer would be only to see the seals at Pier 39 and you can do that if you catch a boat to Alcatraz Why are we locals "down" on the Wharf, because we love our City and we don't think the Wharf represents the best it has to offer. I'm sure many NYers feel the same way about Times Square. We do love our views of the Bay, but many of us think there are much better places than the Wharf to enjoy the view--my personal favorite is Chrissy Field for unobstructed, jaw dropping views of the Bridge, the Marin headlands, Alcatraz, Angel Island. There will always be people who want to go to the Wharf, and will probably enjoy it--each to their own. But please don't criticize us locals for not thinking it is a great place, or for making other recommendations.

LoveItaly

Oh dovima, such beautiful memories! It is true you can't go home again.

When SF was more of a working class city it was so much more enjoyable.

The ladies in their hats and gloves, remember the flower stands and the violet corsages women would buy and put on their coat or suit?

Blums at Union Sq., how "pink" it was. Yummy food too. Well so many beautiful memories that will always be with those of us who were fortunate enough to remember "when". Sometimes the SF Chronical prints one of Herb Cains columns, such fun to read but bittersweet also.

And of course I am sure my greatgrandparents thought SF was "ruined" by the time I was born.

An oh, just to have one more night in a black cocktail dress while drinking a martini and enjoying a cigaret while a band played beautiful music and people danced to romantic music.

don512

I was not criticizing locals for not liking the Wharf, after all that is a matter of opinion. What I was saying was that some locals criticize the area in a way that makes me feel like I am kind of stupid because I enjoy the area. And speaking as a tourist, like it or not, it is one of the areas that makes San Franciso a very unique city, along with it's many other neighborhoods (be them quaint, stylish or even tacky). A lot of locals here seem to praise Union Square, which I really like. But it seems there used to be a lot of criticism of that area, on this board, a few years back when I was coming to visit the city. I am just saying that some here seem to be talking people out of visiting the area instead of letting them try it and decide for themselves.

StuDudley

>>>I am just saying that some here seem to be talking people out of visiting the area instead of letting them try it and decide for themselves.<<

SAB, myself, and all other locals have probably spent much more time visiting the Wharf, Chrissy Field, Noe Valley, and all other areas of the city, than most tourists have. I have no idea what your, or other "typical" tourists' tastes are like - similar to ours or different. All we can do is suggest things that we find to be the most interesting/exciting/cultural/cute/rewarding/uniquue, etc. My top 100 list does not include a browse through Pier 39, or shops & restaurants on the Wharf or even the Cannery or Ghirardelli (although I like to admire the architecture). My "best views" do not include the Wharf either, because you can walk a little east or west and see the same thing (or better) and not be surrounding by stuff not-so-pretty.

I've read many trip reports from people who have not ventured much beyond the Wharf - not even to Union St. The first time I visited SF from LA (where I was raised) I though the Wharf was the bees knees - until I spent some time on Union St, in North Beach, and later when I move up here permanently - the Noe Valley, GG Park, etc.

We're just giving you the benefit of our experiences.

Stu Dudley

don512

Stu, I have notice you talk about Noe Valley in several of your post. Where exactly is Noe Valley and what does it have to offer for tourist. By the way, I totally agree with what you say about not spending all your time in just one area. As I stated in my original post, every time I have been to San Francisco, I have stayed in a different neighborhood (south of city, Lombard, North Beach, Union Square, Embarcadero, ect.) W4e decided to stay at the Wharf this time because I thought that the Argonaut sounded nice and because of it's closeness to my two favorite things about San Francisco (the bay and North Beach). I am excited about the prospect of getting to wander through Russian Hill and the Ferry Building, which they were just about to complete the last time I was there. Thought I might try to get reservtaions for the Slanted Door and Jazz at Pearl's, since neither looked to far from the Hotel.

MonicaRichards

jtrandolf: Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk doesn't close for the winter-- it's open year round on the weekends. It's actually a great place to go this time of year. Totally not crowded, and beautiful!

LoveItaly

Hi Don, if you want to go to the Slanted Door make your reservations as soon as possible. It is really hard to get reservations there. And have a fun time in SF!

joegri

don: Don't apologize for enjoying the Wharf. I am a San Francisco Native and while I don't hang out at the wharf, it usually is one of (Stu, that is "one of") the places I take visitors when they come to San Francisco. No, it is nothing like it was years ago when there really was a fishing fleet and the restaurants on the wharf provided a good meal at a reasonable price and there were tacky shops then too, just not as many of them. I remember more than once after an evening's gad-about, driving to the wharf in my MG, top down (it was seldom up), foggy as hell, to a bench just above the fishing fleet and I would sit listening to the fog horns and gazing at the warning lights circling high above from the various points on the Bay.
We used to buy a bag of Bay Shrimp (not in the wee hours and actually from San Francisco Bay) and sit on the same bench or perhaps another, shelling and eating the shrimp as if it were popcorn.
Sal was always an exciting site as we entered playland for an afternoons entertainment. After enough games and rides, it was up to the roller rink or even the skating rink at Sutros. When we got hungry, back down to the Bull Pup for that version of an enchilada. But somehow, it tasted better than any I can find today. And for dessert, an It's-it, the best ice cream sandwich in the world. And if you still needed something sweet, well there was the salt-water-taffy shop with its great arms pulling and twisting the taffy into shape.
No, it is nothing like it was and, Yes, you can't go home. But, I still find a measure of charm at the wharf and my visiting guests agree with me. You don't have to take in the tacky shops. Walk on the Marina side and look toward the crab pots, the Balclutha (sp?), the square rigger moored at the wharf (go aboard if you are so inclined). And, yes, even wander Pier 39. You don't have to go into the shops. There is plenty to see; the sea lions to be sure, but at the end of the pier there is a small park with a number of benches where you can take in a spectacular view of Alcatraz and the rest of the Bay. Not very sophisticated, but fun, if you allow yourself the pleasure.

WeaverBarbie

don, thanks for the tourist's perspective. As a local (from the Peninsula, we only went to the City for some particular reason. The wharf is where the salmon charter boats started and all I remember of those trips my dad dragged us along on was getting up at some insanely early pre-dawn hour. No wonder I don't go back unless I'm taking tourists. But as a kid, I loved the novelty of the wharf restaurants with their glass float and net decor and dried starfish for sale at the counter.

It's easy for me to forget what an unusual place a wharf is for someone who hasn't grown up with one in their back yard. And ours has that neat red bridge so close by, too.

(I also loved the spinning disk at the playhouse and that incredible slide with the burlap bags. The trip wasn't a success without at least one good friction burn.)

StuDudley

>>>Stu, I have notice you talk about Noe Valley in several of your post. Where exactly is Noe Valley and what does it have to offer for tourist.<<

In a “nutshell” I think the Noe Valley has more interesting & unique shops, restaurants, and architecture, than you will find in most “neighborhoods” in the City – certainly more than you’ll find at the Wharf. The Haight might be a close second, or perhaps first in other people’s opinion.

There are many single family dwellings in the Noe Valley – perhaps a higher percentage than in any of the pre-earthquake areas (this excludes outer Sunset & Richmond areas). Many of these houses are Victorians – we lived in one on Jersey St.

I’ve read in both the SF Chronicle and the SF Focus Magazine that the Noe Valley is the best neighborhood in the Bay Area.

There are many very nice ethnic restaurants in the area. One of my two favorite Italian restaurants (Incanto) is located there, along with other more traditional Italian places (Bacco is just one). Just on Church St, there is a “noodles” restaurant that served me the best Paella I’ve had in the US. Across the street is a Greek restaurant, farther down is one of my favorite Chinese places, a sushi restaurant, a middle eastern place, and a Thai restaurant. Also on Church there is Lovejoy’s Tea Room, which is perhaps the best English tearoom in the City – people flock from all over to have high tea there. On 24th St there are another dozen or so restaurants – French, Italian, sushi, Korean (on Castro), Calif cuisine (Firefly), a burger place (Barneys), Thai, Peruvian (Fresca), Chinese, and many “breakfast” spots.

The shops are just a diverse. There is a place that sells very interesting lunch boxes. There are houseware stores, antique shops, cookware shops, clothes, odds & ends, etc.

The Noe Valley is bounded to the south by 30th street, to the east by Dolores, on the west by Grandview and the hills leading up to Diamond Heights Blvd, and to the north by about 21st or 22nd streets. It is just south, and over the hill from the Castro.

Here is a “Walk in the Noe Valley” that I posted some months ago:

From downtown, take the J-Church and get off on 30th Street. Sit on the left side of the car (east side) to get a good view of downtown as you pass Dolores Park. It’s about a 20 min. ride once you are on the street car.

On the corner of 30th and Church, there is a great coffee shop - XO- with internet access, and very nice, clean restrooms. You can get a spot of breakfast or lunch there too.

Cross Church, and perhaps do a “once around” inside the small produce market across the street from XO. Walk north on Church. You will pass a meat market, Greek restaurant, a Thai place, and a few others. On the corner of Duncan & Church is my favorite Italian restaurant - Incanto. Peruse the menu - it's a lot more creative & interesting than the normal Italian fare you find in the City. Head a block north & you will come to Erics - my favorite Chinese restaurant in this area. Kitty-corner is Amberjack Sushi. Somewhere on the west side of Church, there is an interesting antique shop called Pickled Hutch, and another specialty store selling odds-&-ends. There is also a store selling German specialties.

Cross over the street (towards the Sushi place), and continue to walk north on Church. You will pass an interesting pet store (anyone at home who might enjoy a treat?). On the corner of Church & 26th street is Chloe’s, my favorite place for breakfast or lunch – especially if it’s a nice day & you can sit outside. It’s quite simple, but very popular with the locals. A little further north is Fatouche (sp) – a mid-eastern restaurant. In the same block is Lovejoy’s tea room. It has a very beautiful interior and is quite popular - drawing tea crowds from the entire city. There is a Lovejoy’s antique shop across the street.

Proceed north on Church to 24th St. Head west (turn left) on 24th & walk along the south side. There are lots & lots of shops, cafes, and restaurants – I can’t possibly describe them all. On the south side of 24, there is a Starbucks – perhaps the only chain store in the Noe Valley (other than Rite Aid, Walgreens, & a few banks). Fresca is a Peruvian restaurant that opened up a few months ago. Le Zinc is a very nice French restaurant. When you get to Castro, turn left & walk up the block. There is a kitchen store along the way & also a Korean Restaurant. Cross the street at Jersey (1 blk south of 24th), and head back north towards 24th on Castro. There is a Sushi place, and a paint your own ceramics store. On the corner of Castro & 24th is an Ice Cream store. If you want to learn more about the Noe Valley, pick up a copy of the “Noe Valley Voice” at the ice cream store. Turn left from Castro onto 24th, and walk past two restaurants, a mystery bookstore, a bicycle shop, and another very small Chinese restaurant. Continue west till you come to Douglass. Cross the street to the small playground & look around. Head back east along 24th St. You’ll pass Firefly – a very nice restaurants that’s kinda out-of-the-way (We had dinner there last week).

Continue east on 24th & you’ll encounter more shops, restaurants, café’s etc. Lots of interesting places to stop. When you get to the east side of Diamond St, walk a ½ block north & check out Bacco, an Italian restaurant. On the corner of Diamond & 24th, there’s a café with outside tables – this seems to be a popular meeting place in the morning for moms with strollers. There is a burger place along the way on 24th (between Castro & Diamond St) that has nice outside seating. Continue east on 24th. Between Castro & Noe street, there is a real estate office owned by perhaps the only Republican in the Noe Valley – you’ll know it when you get there. Lots of pictures of Ronald Reagan in the window & other placards proclaiming the “looney-ness” of other Noe Valley residents. I moved to the Noe Valley in ’75, and that real estate office was there then – I guess he likes the “loonies” in the Noe Valley enough to want to stay there. All the artifacts in the window are interesting to read. Someone “defaced” his storefront a few years back, and all the “loonies” were quite outraged that someone would do such a terrible thing, and many pitched in to clean the place up.

Continue east on 24th till you get to Church where you can hop on the J-Church & head back to where you came from.

If you want to see Victorian houses, just stroll the east/west streets between Church & Diamond Streets, and between 23rd & 30th. There is a nice set of matching stick style Victorians about 3/4th the way up the street on 27th to the west of Church – on the south side of the street. Eric’s restaurant on 27th & Church is a Victorian above the restaurant. This will also let you see where the “locals” live. We enjoy wandering in this area after dinner, watching the people come & go or having an evening in front of the TV or guests over for dinner (not a lot of draped windows).

Stu Dudley

don512

I am glad that this post at least gave a few of you a nice trip down "Memory Lane". You all have a great city and a lot to be proud of (still).

Stu, we were planning on renting a car and doing the 49 Mile Scenic Drive one day. Will this bring us through or close by the Noe Valley? Or would it be better saved for a day when we are using public transportation? Is parking there as hard to find as it is in the Castro?