Hello everyone,

My husband and I have planned our second trip to Japan for November, 2025. We went to Kyoto a couple of years ago, but it was toward the end of a 4 week trip and we were pretty tired, so didn't get to see everything we wanted to see which were a lot of the major sites. We did go to Arashiyama around 9am and couldn't get out fast enough. While it was a beautiful place, there were so many people already there. While in Kyoto, we really enjoyed walking a lot of the back streets and going to lesser visited temple sites.

This year, we planned to go again for 5 days, but I recently read in New York Magazine how the poor city has been overrun with tourists, many of them going for a day and racing around trying to get all the social media pics that are popular. The article was frightening when you think about the contemplative feeling while in Kyoto. Even if we didn't go to the major sites, is any area not affected? Now, we are wondering if we should skip Kyoto and go to some lesser known areas in Japan? I would be OK with that since there are so many incredible places to see. I would appreciate any recent first hand experiences and thoughts about the crowds.

>> Even if we didn't go to the major sites, is any area not affected?
Have you checked out some of the TRs here? Those fodorites found ways to cope with or avoid the crowds in Kyoto.

>> Now, we are wondering if we should skip Kyoto and go to some lesser known areas in Japan?
My answer to that question would have been "yes" for at least 10 years. Unlike most (all?) on this forum, I am not a fan of Kyoto, though I would admit that it is pretty much a must-visit for a first-timer to Japan. But first timers don't usually ask that question.

>> Even if we didn't go to the major sites, is any area not affected?
People go to Kyoto to visit the main sights, of course. They are World Heritage sites for good reasons. If you don't visit them and choose to go to lesser known sights then am not sure why it would be necessary to go to Kyoto. Why look for an island of tranquility in a sea of chaos when you can find one in a calm sea. [ok, "chaos" is overdoing it a bit]

There are lesser-known areas in Japan than Kyoto. But many are still very well-known and have lots of foreign tourists. It is a short flight to just about everywhere in Japan from Seoul, Shanghai, Taipei, Hong Kong. They are not just sightseeing in Kyoto or shopping in Tokyo.

I think the question of whether to skip Kyoto in favor of other areas of Japan depends on a lot of things you haven’t told us – what DID you see in that first trip? What else will you see, or are you considering seeing, on this 2nd trip? What are your interests?

Kyoto is very rich in sites worthy of seeing – many of which would never qualify for UNESCO World Heritage Site status simply because they can’t support the ensuing tourism demands (and not, at all, for lack of worth). I can’t imagine visiting that incredible city and NOT finding places away from the crowds – there are so many different temples well off the beaten track!

But I visited Kyoto before it became such a mecca for tourists and so can’t address your question. I trust that others will speak to crowds and the extent to which efforts to avoid them, in November, have been successful.

And FWIW: If mrwunrfl has ever advocated a visit to Kyoto, I missed it!

Ok, I’m a fan of Kyoto. We went last November for a second time and pretty much avoided crowds. We went to wonderful temples that were not crowded and explored areas that weren’t that busy. We love wandering and Kyoto is great place to wander. When we found ourselves in crowded places, we took ourselves in a different direction.

I’ve no doubt that there are other places to visit but we truly enjoyed our second time in Kyoto even more than the first time. I’m sorry I haven’t finished my trip report from last year; I had surgery and my energy and focus still hasn’t come back entirely. I hope to finish it someday but I make no promises! I’ll try to add a few suggestions though I have posted suggestions and photos of places we visited on other posts since we returned.

I won’t tell you you have to go; but I will say it’s possible to minimize the crowds. I don’t go to the biggest name, most popular temples or places but find other places that are lovely and quieter.

@ progol: It's amazing how much surgery takes out of you -- in more than the literal sense! I'm sending healing wishes.

Like kja and progol, I love Kyoto. Now I get why travelers, especially first timers flock to the top ten or twenty famous places in the city and they are popular for good reason. It’s also the why huge crowds and bus tours can make it unpleasant to visit.

For me wandering the neighborhood backstreets, stopping by traditional shops, savoring Kyoryori (meals using the freshest seasonal ingredients from the area) and visiting the dozens and dozens of lesser sites, some centuries old are truly what make Kyoto special.

I always make a point to visit and pay my respects to a shop owner and iaido practitioner at his token-ten (sword shop). He’s currently restoring a 13th century Kamakura era blade, a three year project that I’m hoping he will allow me to acquire when finished.

Awesome! Best wishes, curiousgeo!

Thanks kja, I’ll need all the luck I can get as I know there are other interested people lol.

Thank you! I appreciate the sweet thoughts. Fortunately, nothing serious but still, any surgery takes its toll.

Except that is not true: UNESCO World Heritage Centre - The Criteria for Selection

Just back from one of our many trips to Japan that included two day trips to Kyoto from Osaka to avoid just what you were wondering about. Yes, the crowds were enormous there even in the extreme summer heat this year. There are pickpocket warnings in Kyoto now in the crowded areas where foreign gangs have been operating. We haven't stayed "in" Kyoto since 2016 when we rented a machiya with another couple. That said we are planning on staying in Kyoto for 4 nights this fall. I've cut that back from 5 days. We will stay in the Shimogyo ward (next to the JR Kyoto station) and catch taxi's (Go and S.Ride apps are a must now in Japan) exclusively to the venues we want to see. No more buses and walking amongst the hoards for us. We have seen all the important sights over the years but there are a few special places to us that we would like to revisit on our own pace. Good luck!

Aloha!

Ok, that list only lists criteria for selection as a WH site. It does not say anything about why a place does not get WH status.

A place might qualify but not make the list due to resource and management limitations. Japan, Kyoto in particular, does not have those limitations. They do have the resources and the will to attain and maintain WH status.

I suppose that it is possible that Kyoto has decided that they have enough WH sites.

ht, good to know about those apps, thanks.

I suppose the S.Ride app would be for the newish-style taxis which have a big S on the side:
Black Japanese S.Ride taxi driving through Ginza, Tokyo, Japan Stock Photo - Alamy

They always remind me of this joke:

mrw, yes, and they even fit the Go into that joke

In the northern part of Japan(Tohoku) the prominent taxi app used is the Pay app. Very useful over the last few years to us seniors as we average only 15,000 steps daily in Japan and not the 20-25,000 that we used to do lol.

Aloha!

We spent three days in Kyoto last month, and it was my favorite part of our trip. Can it be crowded? Yes, at times. But our second day there, while I was still dealing with jet lag, I got up at 6 am, dressed and walked over the bridge across the Kamo River into Gion, and it was basically just me and the trash collectors out at that time of day. I wandered all through Gion and came upon one amazing temple after another - so beautiful! Nothing was open that early, but just wandering past the grounds gave me ideas of where I wanted to stop back when things started opening up in the morning. It was lovely, seeing one gorgeous building after another, quiet parks, the feeling of being in the old part of the city. I was walking past Kodai-ji Temple's entrance and spied what looked like this big Buddha head a little ways off rising up against the backdrop of the mountains. It was not a Buddha, it was Ryozen Kannon temple, which I'd never heard of, and my gosh, how beautiful when I went over to see just what it was! That kind of wandering early in the day leads you to stumble upon things you wouldn't think of visiting.

Did it get crowded at times? Yes. By mid afternoon the uphill road to Kiyomizudera was full of people all heading up there. Was it worth going? Absolutely. It was one of those places I considered skipping, and so glad we went. Just beautiful. At no time did I feel like I could not enjoy myself due to the crowds. It wasn't as bad as say, Time Square, but yes, it got busy, especially mid-day. But Kyoto is a good sized city, and worth looking around. Late afternoon visit to Gion Kagai Museum - great. We also went to Arashiyama in the late afternoon - no crowds. We finished that day at Fu Fu No Yu onsen right across the river - relaxing and not crowded at all. We spent time in Tokyo, Osaka and Kyoto, and Kyoto was my favorite of the three. Go and explore!

We have the same worries about overcrowding in Kyoto, but as it is the last stop on our planned trip for October-November, we're going to focus more on experiences than on specific sites we want to see. I'm guessing we'll be a bit fatigued from our travels, but that might be what it takes to get us to slow down (even further, as we are not go-go-go travelers) and savor our last days in Japan. Open to any and all suggestions! right now I have on my wish-list an ikebana workshop, visiting the Moss Temple, an e-bike tour, and possibly a day trip to Uji to see Byodoin and sample some teas. Also, some day hikes depending on weather and what we find on the All-Trails website.

Byodoin is s gem, IMO -- enjoy!

We went last May and are going again this November. I'll echo some of what has already been said: yes, places can be packed and uncomfortable, but with planning and some discretion over where to go, you can also avoid that. One strategy is to simply go early and jet lag can work to your advantage if Kyoto is early in your itinerary. Our first morning, we were up at 6 am (and it's not because we're go getters!) and got to Ginkakuju before it opened. It was very manageable at that hour and we followed it up with a stroll down the Philosopher's Path that we pretty much had to ourselves. (At first we thought we were on the wrong path since we kept wondering where everyone was.) We were back at our hotel for a late breakfast by 10:30 am. We were also fortunate to spend the day with a local couple that took us around to several places that were quite uncrowded, but still very lovely.

Where we had crowds were places we knew would be packed, but still wanted to see, such as Fushimi-Inari and the Bamboo Grove. Glad we went, but we'll skip them this time around. Last time spent five nights in Kyoto and this time we plan on spending three nights. All that said, boy was it easier the very first time we went in 1995!

The number of asian tourists to Japan, especially Chinese and Korean over the last ten years has made Kyoto very crowded. Best to get to places you want to go as early as possible.

went to japan last may and again in march. spent a week in kyoto both times and loved it both times. i'd plan your days out well and arrive early for places like fushimi inari and, kiyomizudera. certain places we avoided like the bamboo forest, and found our own in andashino nenbutsu.