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No List 2024--your thoughts?

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Old Nov 8th, 2023 | 10:56 AM
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No List 2024--your thoughts?

https://www.fodors.com/news/news/fodors-no-list-2024
I am done. (No you're not--editors)
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Old Nov 8th, 2023 | 11:33 AM
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Discouraging, zebec. Did Venice ban the big tourist ships?
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Old Nov 8th, 2023 | 11:45 AM
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Sad to see Venice still struggling. I suspect the entry fees will line political pockets and do nothing to reduce overtourism by daytrippers. (I think they did ban the giant cruise ships at least from parking locally.)
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Old Nov 8th, 2023 | 11:50 AM
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Locals have been priced out as landlords prioritize renting per night to travelers who pay more, and resident-focused businesses, like hardware stores and butchers, have transformed into tourist-friendly emporiums selling t-shirts and gelato.
Isn't this the reason some people want a crack-down on illegal vacation rentals in U.S. cities? I think there are still a lot of people who argue vacation rentals don't "price out" locals.
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Old Nov 8th, 2023 | 12:24 PM
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Those interested in the plight of Venice will gain from viewing the doc 'The Venice Syndrome'.
I once went for a solo stroll in the far corner of Dorsoduro one morn as Mrs Z slept in, and there bumped into Countess Tudi Sammartini.
She was the main character/person featured in that doc.

The other areas featured in this front-page Fodors article each have issues worth considering. Complicated ones.

I am done. the serious article
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Old Nov 8th, 2023 | 02:22 PM
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That's a seriously depressing article.
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Old Nov 8th, 2023 | 07:49 PM
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We have just returned from a four week visit to Venice, our tenth visit over some sixteen years. Yes, the crowds can be frustrating, but they are readily avoidable.
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Old Nov 8th, 2023 | 09:00 PM
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Peter, do you think it was less crowded in October than May/June in the northern hemisphere summer? Or was it shoulder to shoulder regardless.
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Old Nov 9th, 2023 | 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Peter_S_Aus
We have just returned from a four week visit to Venice, our tenth visit over some sixteen years. Yes, the crowds can be frustrating, but they are readily avoidable.
My daughter and I found your point to be true. Were just there in early October. Of course, we weren't there as long as all that and probably eventually would have had to wade further into the crowds. I couldn't get out of St. Mark's Square fast enough. But even in those few days, we found some really nice squares where it seemed to be mostly people doing normal things. We sat and took a long rest in *San Polo where kids were playing and parents were chatting (though I suppose we were sort of the touristic pollution in that case). I would have enjoyed staying around there but we did like our area just off Campo Santa Margherita too.

ETA: *Sorry, no we were in Castello, not San Polo, Campo Santi Giovanni e Paolo. Not entirely tourism free... there were a couple of very bored gondoliers but mostly it seemed pretty free of mask shops and such. .

Last edited by CounterClifton; Nov 9th, 2023 at 03:10 AM. Reason: to correct location
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Old Nov 14th, 2023 | 04:17 PM
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Locals have beenpriced out as landlords prioritize renting per night to travelers who pay more, and resident-focused businesses, like hardware stores and butchers, have transformed into tourist-friendly emporiums selling t-shirts and gelato. Ultimately, Venice may have been too successful in attracting tourists while becoming unlivable for residents.

This is NOT a new phenomenon.

For decades, the centers of popular cities have been gentrified and become too expensive for locals. Tourism certainly contributes to this and platforms like Airbnb have made it easier for some property owners or those leasing to monetize renting out their homes.

But you hear the same complaints in Florence and Rome too, people have been pushed out by rents and certainly in the time I've been visiting Italy, there have been more tourist lodgings like B&Bs renovated and opened for business in the last two decades, charging higher rates than before. Airbnbs can go away but sites like bbplanet.it will still bring tourists.

Long-term leases and housing costs also go up for other reasons, like gentrification or economic boom in certain industries. There was a problem with teachers, policemen and firemen being unable to afford to live in Manhattan, to be close to their jobs. That problem has only grown over time, not lessened. In San Francisco, the multiple waves of startups and tech booms had pushed up rents to some of the highest in the country, forcing people with working-class jobs out of the city. Now the pandemic and the WFH trend has caused high office space vacancies and San Francisco may go towards the way Detroit did as the automakers faced multiple waves of bankruptcies and needing federal bailouts.

In San Francisco, where Airbnb is based, housing prices are sky high because of many factors, like tech booms and the intense NIMBYism and dysfunctional planning which failed to permit more housing construction, especially higher-density housing. These are multi-decade trends.

If some people want to blame Airbnb, maybe there's a contribution but it's one of many factors and probably nowhere near the biggest.

In sum, Venice and other popular tourist places were always trending towards unaffordable housing costs except for the rich for much longer than there was such a thing as Airbnb.

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Old Nov 16th, 2023 | 05:50 AM
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In the small city where I live (state capital, ~100,000 residents) Airbnb has most definitely in recent years impacted the housing market. My partner's former landlord owns a dozen+ properties, all of which were long term rental properties. These multifamily homes have, as tenants have moved out, been converted to short term rental properties marketed to those coming to the area for work, medical care and state exams. The lovely apartment where my guy lived (a one bedroom, two bath renovated space) cost him $1400 per month. It is now available on Airbnb for $250+ a night. Hoping that my city will begin to limit this kind of unlimited conversion of long term to short term rentals. Don't get me wrong, I use Airbnb when I travel but I always seek properties that are individually owned and often, when traveling solo, opt to rent a room with private bath in a home. Corporate greed shouldn't prevent people from being able to afford a home to live in.
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