freberta

We are going to spend 3 nights in the Cotswolds in August. Because there are 6 of us (4 adults, 2 teenagers) and we are not traveling far from London, we decided against renting a car (or, in our case, a mini-van). We have reservations at a hotel in Moreton-in-Marsh for those 3 nights, and plan to make it our base for exploring the Cotswolds.

I have a preliminary itinerary put together, and I would like to float it here for suggestions and comments. At this point, the itinerary may seem overly structured, but only in that I want to make sure I have bus and train schedules nailed down. It's the walking part that remains flexible and open to change.

Here goes: We plan to arrive in MiM around 11 a.m., check into our hotel and start our walk to Chipping Campden, via Blockley (stopping at Mill Dene Gardens) and Broad Campden. We would like to have lunch in Blockley.

After exploring Chipping Campden using Rick Steves' book or any other guide book that has a good self-walking tour, we will take the 6:30 p.m. bus back to M-i-M and have dinner there. Perhaps we can have afternoon tea somewhere in CC?

Day 2 - We will take a 9:29 a.m. train to from M-i-M to Oxford, arriving at around 10 a.m. We will either take a short 5-minute taxi ride or Bus S3 to Blenheim Palace. We will spend 4-5 hours at Blenheim Palace and then return to Oxford, either by taxi or bus. In Oxford, we will visit Christ Church College (last entry at 4:30 p.m.) and walk around Oxford until dinner. We'd like to eat at a local pub and then take the 8:20 p.m. train back to M-i-M.

Day 3 - Right after breakfast, take a taxi to Stow-on-the-Wold. Walk around and explore and then take the 9:25 bus to Bourton-on-the -Water. From Bourton-on-the-Water, walk along Heart of England Way and Wardens Way to Lower Slaughter, Upper Slaughter, Naunton, Windrush Way (by Lodge's Barn and east of Aylworth), Harford village and back to Bourton-on-the-Water. Lunch will be somewhere along the way. We will take the 6:35 p.m. bus back to M-i-M. We would like to have dinner at the Fox and Hounds Pub in Great Wolford, but will need to take a taxi or two to get there and back.

Day 4 - Leave for Bath after breakfast.

A couple of things: will we need to pack our hiking boots or will a good pair of walking shoes do? How about our walking poles that were so invaluable to us last summer hiking through the Swiss Alps? I already have the OL45 map of the Cotswolds. How many people can the typical taxi carry at one time? Because there are 6 of us, we might need 2 or one making 2 trips.

Before we get to the Cotswolds, we are going to spend the first 5 days of our trip in London. I am still working on the itinerary for that part of our trip, and once that is done, I will post it for comments.

Again, any comments, suggestions, tips, etc., would be appreciated. Thanks.

janisj

"<i>the itinerary may seem overly structured, but only in that I want to make sure I have bus and train schedules nailed down.</i>"

OK - the plan is feasible. But w/6 people, I'd definitely want a car (or even 2 small cars). One or two people or a couple and a toddler in a carry sling could do this easily. But you essentially have 6 adults. W/ 6 different people involved you really need more flexibility IMO.

Your concern seems to be the size of a car required. You could easily rent a people mover (like a Toyota Previa) or two really small cars and manage easier. For instance - the Blenheim swing. By having wheels, you could stop there at opening time, stay until an early lunch, and drive on to Oxford w/o having to faff about w/ buses back and forth. Plus w/ a car, you can take advantage of the long summer evenings and tour around after the buses have quit.

just my 2¢

(A cab [you might need 2] from Oxford train station to Blenheim will take more than 5 mins - it is about 8 or 9 miles and probably a 15 minute drive)

freberta

We looked everywhere for a 6-passenger mini-van and the only place we found one was at the airports. For us, the hassle of going back to the airport to pick up the car and the trying to figure out where we are going is not worth it. Also, my husband is the only one who can drive a manual transmission car, and he's not crazy about driving on the other side of the road. To keep him happy, we compromised and settled on public transportation. We know that with a car there is so much more flexibility (we've rented cars several times in France, Switzerland and parts of Italy). It would be nice to have a car to tour around after the buses are no longer running, but with teenagers (and adults, too) who need their sleep, we tend to go to bed early (even when the sun goes down later than at home). And sometimes having a car and worrying about parking is not worth the hassle. In Italy 3 years ago, we tried to stop in a few towns (touristy towns) but couldn't find a place to park the car, so we moved on (husband doesn't have a lot of patience when it comes to finding a parking spot, especially when he doesn't know where he is going). I'd rather arrive in Oxford by train, catch a bus to Blenheim (or taxi) and back, and then take the train back to Moreton-in-Marsh.

Thanks for your suggestions. I do appreciate them.

flanneruk

You WILL need two taxis most of the time. There are 6-seaters, but they can't ply for hire at Oxford station (where they're all legally required to carry no more than 4), and most cabs outside Oxford are limited to 3 passengers.

It's 30 mins to drive from MiM to Blenheim: at least 90 to train/bus (or even cab) it. I live here and hardly ever use a car: but I really do think you're nuts to copy me.

Footwear and sticks: walking round here is mostly across open fields. They're often muddy, and both boots and sticks help a lot. Over 2 miles or so, boots also give you better ankle support, so you feel better afterwards. Personally, I'd take one stick each, if it breaks down into bits you can put in your cases.

Parking. Is rarely a problem round here, except in Oxford where assume you can't.

Your Blenheim/Oxford day. You might understand why you're budgetting to see more than anyone needs to of a boring Baroque building that's ten a groschen in Vienna, and 20 a lira in Rome, but giving yourself no time to see one of the world's two medieval university cities. I'm baffled

But you're planning to arrive when practically everything's closed to visitors. One slight way of using your time better is to go to Christ Church for Evensong at 1800, ChCh time (GMT/BST +5 mins), looking at other stuff beforehand.

Eating in Oxford. To get the 2020 train, you need to be out of the eaterie by 2000 at the absolute latest. Given the generally dilatory service this requires ordering round 1845 - and who eats then? Assume you're on the 2117 or the 2252 (journey time: 37-42 mins)

freberta

flanneruk, thanks so much for your comments. I grew up in NYC and although my family owned a car, I didn't get my driver's license 'til I was 20 and I got my first car when I was married and living in Washington, DC (age 35). I commuted by bus and subway to high school for 1-1/2 hours each way, so I don't mind spending time on trains and buses. To me, that's a great way to experience the local culture, and I never look at as a waste of time. I've taken local buses in Dakar (many years ago), in Ireland, in Switzerland, and lots of other places, and loved every minute of it. If it means taking two taxis instead of one, we can easily split up.

But I am curious about you opinion of Blenheim Palace. I've read nothing but wonderful things about the place. Of course, I am partial to Blenheim Palace, since I am the proud owner of a Blenheim Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, but that has nothing to do with my desire to see Churchill's birthplace. However, we can easily cut short our visit there if it proves to be boring, and devote more time to Oxford (a place I visited briefly in 1977 as a college student). My kids mainly want to see the Harry Potter sites, so they will be happy with a visit to Christ Church College.

Believe it or not, we usually eat dinner very early, so sitting down by 6 p.m. (1800) wouldn't be out of the ordinary for us. But as I plan this trip, I might very well get us on the later train to M-in-M.

I will definitely take into consideration a lot of what you've said, especially the part about spending less time at Blenheim and more in Oxford.

Thanks!

rogerdodger

While in Morton in Marsh you might try the Black Swan for a meal. I would stay as far as possible from Blemheim, however, perhaps you enjoy that sort of stuff. Actually I would scrap the entire trip and head up to Scotland.

janisj

flanner is a neighbor of the place -- don't get him started on Blenheim (He has a rather <i>definite</i> opinion of Blenheim.)

Let's just leave it at some are amazed/love the place, some think it is an ostentatious pile owned by a prat.

It looks like we simply can't convince you - but I do fear your romanticized vision of riding the buses will only leave you missing out and not seeing a fraction of what you could if you had a car.

janisj

Oh - I meant to say -- If it is necessary for some reason (non-drivers, too young to rent, health reasons, whatever), visiting the Cotswolds w/o a car definitely is possible. But for a group, and when renting is an option -- it is just soooo much easier to have a car.

Especially since you want to see things spread from Oxford to Blenheim to Chipping Campden to Stow-on-the-Wold.

freberta

rogerdodger, when we first thought about going to Great Britain, it had been our hope to visit Scotland as well. But because we are now limited in time (down to 10 days from 14). we decided we couldn't do both England and Scotland. Also, it is the dream of both my husband and son to play golf at St. Andrews and other great golf courses in Scotland, but unfortunately, because my son is only 13, his handicap is not good enough to play, just yet, that is. We figure that in a couple of years, between getting bigger physically and improving his game, he will be able to play there. So, we are willing to wait a few years for that to happen. But in the meantime, we do want to go to England, and the Cotswolds.

As I said before, we have heard good things and now not-so-good things about Blenheim. We need to do a little more research on the place and see if it's worth going to.

I think that we will get a good feel for the Cotswolds by walking some of the footpaths and trails. Walking the trails is a priority for me, and if I can experience only a few, that will be fine with me. As long as we can catch a taxi in the event we miss the last bus to Moreton-in-Marsh, then we'll be fine. And I will check with taxi companies before we leave to make sure that is an option. My main concern when I put the itinerary together was whether the walks are doable. I get the idea that they are, with plenty of places to stop for a drink or snack.

Since I discovered this site several years ago, I have planned two of the best vacations ever -- to Paris with my husband in 2008 and to Switzerland with my family last year. We went on other family trips to Europe before that, and I am convinced they would have been so much better if I had only known about Fodor's. That is why I am sure that this vacation will be right up there with the last two we've been on, and it's all because of the wonderful ideas I have received from the fantastic people who contribute to the Fodor's website. Thank you!

sap

For some reason, my DH liked Blenheim much more than Oxford. (I liked them both.) We actually enjoyed walking by the lake at Blenheim and seeing the grounds as much as the "palace" itself. We are, of course, big fans of Churchill and the exhibit they had on him was interesting. Still, unless you are in that area as we were on a loop back to London, I wouldn't leave the Cotswolds for it.

The countryside and villages in the Cotswolds are enchanting. That region was the highlight of our 3-week trip. Three nights does not seem like enough for that area. I would do at least 4-5; but if that's all the time you have, it's better than nothing.

We also loved Hidcote Gardens and Bath.

I, too, have no idea how one could visit the Cotswolds without a car as you would be opting out on the charm of motoring around the country roads to the various villages, but it sounds like you simply may be more comfortable with public transportation.

With flanner and janis helping you, you'll get the absolute best information. I would really take their resident Fodorite expert opinions to heart.

rhkkmk

please rent the car....you will see and experience much more and that area is so wonderful...

flanneruk

I'm trying to limit my comments on the monument to the Churchills' corruption and grotesque taste that disfigures our landscape.

But if your objective is to see Harry Potter stuff in Oxford, you badly need to review your timetable. ChCh starts stopping visitors from accessing its Hall around 1645. The Divinity Schools at the Bodleian are inaccessible to visitors from 1700, and Duke Humfrey's Library is accessible only via a guided tour (details from the Bodleian site: www.bodleian.ox.ac.uk)

There's no taxi rank at Woodstock, and it's 10-15 mins from the Palace to the S3 stop (every half hour: roughly 30 mins to the Magdalen St stop in Oxford which is the one you need to see the historic centre, whence 15 mins' walk to the visitors' entrance to ChCh at Meadow Buildings). So at least 75 mins from the Palace to ChCh. You cannot get to ChCH Hall, the Divinity Schools and Duke Hunfrey's Library on your timetable.

Leaving the car/public transport argument to one side, I'd invert your timetable. Start in Oxford, do justice to your Potterphilia, then get the S3 or cab to Woodstock. Blenheim's undisclosed secret is that the public footpaths across the estate are open 24 hours a day, though in practice only really useable in daylight (ie till about 2030 in August). See the place from the outside, have supper in Woodstock, then either get the hourly northbound S3 to Charlbury or the southbound half-hourly S3 to Oxford station. Either way: then get an evening train back to MiM, which leaves Charlbury 15 mins after leaving Oxford.

flanneruk

One other way of squaring your Oxford/Blenheim circle.

Get the 0727 train towards Oxford, and get off at Combe 30 mins or so later. Officially you're supposed to tell the guard you want to do this, since it's not bound to stop if there's no-one at the platform waiting. It's then a niceish 20 min walk to the public footpath at the western entrance to the Blenheim estate, and a very pleasant 30 mins' walk, through the bits of the former forest 300 years of Churchill destruction haven't vandalised, to the Palace. The footpath is accessible to the public 24 hours a day. The 0727 is the only eastbound train from MiM that stops at Combe.

freberta

flanneruk, I like your idea of seeing Oxford first and then Blenheim. I thnk I will rework our day to incorporate that change. I think the 7:27 a.m. train might be a little early for us.

I also will look into the possibility of renting a mini-van from a location in London other than Heathrow. Ideally, we would like to drop the car in Bath, but that's probably not a possibility. I don't want to rent it from Heathrow, because I don't want to spend at least $100 to get us all there just to pile into a rental car. If my husband (and possibly one other to serve as navigator) goes to pick up the car, then he has to swing by to get the rest, and that would probably add hours to our trip. This would be on a Monday morning. So, if we go by train, we would leave our hotel by 8:30 a.m. and be in M-in-M by 11. I know my family, and we probably wouldn't get to M-in-M til mid-afternoon if we drove. Yes, we could drive to CC and be there in 20 minutes, or take a walk like I want to and figure out a way back. If we had a car and wanted to walk to CC, wouldn't I still have to find a way back to M-in-M? See, I'm still on the fence about a car vs. train. Originally I thought about hiring a taxi for a morning to do a mini-tour of some of the villages, but since we are leaving on Thursday for Bath, that gives us no time. I think that our two walks on Monday and Wednesday will give us a good glimpse of the Cotswolds. We're all about compromise, and that's the best we can do under the circumstances.

In summary, I am going to do a little research on car rentals in London for a vehicle large enough to carry 6 adults and luggage, but I still am leaning towards the train. But I do like the Oxford in the morning and Blenheim in the afternoon. Thanks!

irishface

I also think doing Oxford first is a great idea. I enjoyed Oxford, but loved the colleges at Cambridge. I don't have flanner's distaste for Blenheim, but it was one of those things that impressed me more in the book than in person. I only spent an hour or two there and it was enough.

freberta

I am convinced that is the way to go. To take advantage of our limited time in Oxford, I am looking at private walking tours before going off to Blenheim. Thanks for your words of advice.

janisj

Good that you are at least going to consider a car. But a couple of comments - not trying to pile on, just info to give you more to work into your decisions . . .

"<i>I also will look into the possibility of renting a mini-van from a location in London other than Heathrow. Ideally, we would like to drop the car in Bath, but that's probably not a possibility. I don't want to rent it from Heathrow, because I don't want to spend at least $100 to get us all there just to pile into a rental car.</i>"

LHR is probably the very best place to collect your car and you can definitely drop it in Bath. There are seldom drop off charges if you rent through AutoEurope or one of the major firms. I don't understand the $100 to get to LHR. You can take the tube to LHR - either PAYG or a zone 6 extension on your Oysters would cover it

janisj

meant to include . . . >> one reason LHR is a convenient pick up location is because it is on the motorways that head to Oxford/the Cotswolds and the one that heads to Bath -- avoiding having to drive in central London and making the initial driving very straightforward. On a Saturday AM, collecting a car in central London would be fine (most city locations are not open Saturday afternoon or all day Sunday). But on a Monday AM, even though you'd be going against the flow of most commuters, the traffic would be bad.

freberta

janisj, I don't know what type of Oyster card we are going to get. In any case, we are going to have a lot of luggage and I doubt that we would want to take the tube back to the airport. Because we are 6, I am looking into the possibility of taking a shuttle from the airport upon arrival. I checked online the other day and it is 14 pounds per person for the shuttle. At the current exchange rate, that is about $125. As I said before, we haven't figured out the Oyster card situation yet, so yes, there is a good chance that transportation on the Heathrow Express is included?

I also looked at a few car rental agencies online -- Thrifty, for example. If we pick up the car (a 7-passenger minivan) near the Tower of London and drop it off somewhere in Bath, we're looking at a Monday-Thursday charge of nearly 400 pounds, plus 80 pounds for insurance. What we need to do is to see how much it will cost us to travel by train to the places we have in mind, add in some taxi fares and compare the car and train options. It's not that we are totally against it, it's just that for the distances we are traveling, it doesn't seem to make much sense to rent a car. When our itinerary included Scotland (which was stricken when we shortened our vacation), we were going to rent a car, and traveling by car in the Cotswolds would not have been an issue.

Oh, I am confused. I need to think about this one carefully. Thanks for making me rethink it.

freberta

I am back after doing some research. I've decided, for now, to pick up the car from Heathrow on Monday, Aug. 9, and return it to Heathrow on Friday, Aug. 13, in the evening or even early Saturday morning (we go home on Saturday and we are staying at a hotel very close to the airport). I found a 7-passenger minivan from AutoEurope and Enterprise, both in the $500 range. I must now talk it over with my husband and step-daughter and her husband for their thoughts.

If we go with the car option, then we may very well change our lodgings. We are booked for a 3-night stay in Moreton-in-Marsh, only because we need to be close to the train station. If we have a car, we can spend each night in a different village. I will let you know what we decide.

Again, thanks.