jlewfirtree

Hello! We will be in Arosa, Switzerland in MID-MARCH and want to end our trip in Lake Como. We will rent a car (an Audi crossover SUV) at Malpensa, and drive to Arosa (via Lugano). ON THE WAY BACK, we wanted to drive via St. Moritz (to stop for lunch and pretend we are fancy for a day!) or just a more chill town near there (Silvaplana???) but I've been informed the road is dangerous and I might need STUDDED TIRES?

We are traveling with two young kids in car seats. I imagine that Switzerland is probably pretty GOOD about plowing highways, and I'd assumed it would be fine to drive, so I was shocked that I might have to take special precautions.

Can some one give me the low down on this drive, around MARCH 16th. CAN WE REALLY not go that route? ALSO,if we drive that way, will we essentially see the same sights as the BERNINA EXPRESS? (we cant get tickets)

Thanks!

lavandula

Winter tyres are mandatory during November - April in many countries. I would be extremely surprised if they were not mandatory in Switzerland. The main concern is black ice on the road (i.e. ice that comes at low temperatures which you cannot see). When we lived in Germany my husband had an accident in a rental car that his workplace had hired for him which did not yet have winter tyres - fortunately he just slid into a ditch and was able to abandon the car and walk into his workplace, where they called for help. I don't think there was much damage and he was unhurt. But when we eventually got our car of course we also bought a set of winter tyres (we come from a country / area where black ice is not a concern). I doubt snowploughing is a problem in Switzerland.

When you rent the car you just request winter tyres as part of the cost of the rental. If you are concerned or if it's difficult, get on the phone and talk to a human. Specify that you will be driving in the Alps and may need studs.

Lavandula

Jean

The Bernina Express route and the driving route are not in the same area.

When you drive into the mountains in winter, you can't make assumptions about weather, road conditions, etc. Even if the local canton(s) are efficient in plowing roads, they can't control the weather.

You could make this entire trip by train, but with two little kids and luggage for 4 it would not be a walk in the park.

dreamon

Why can’t you get train tickets? It’s a while since I did that journey but tickets were readily available on a walk up basis. The regular train (without panoramic windows) does this journey regularly so I’m surprised if they are sold out. It’s nice to focus on the scenery rather than the road.

jlewfirtree

So. We land in Malpensa early morning with 2 little kids. We thought it was easier to bring along our car seats, install them RIGHT THERE into a rental car, and Drive the 3 hrs to Arosa (stopping for lunch).

the alternative is taking a train to Milan. taking a Train to Zurich. Taking a train to Chur. Taking ANOTHER train to AROSA.

we like to have a car because that way we can stop wherever we like, we can keep our stuff there (so we aren’t lugging it). We realize we will have to stay outside the ZTL (or whatever it’s called).

We drove around Puglia and Basilicata 5 years ago.

I HAVE THOUGHT about rerouting our flight to land in Zurich (if I can even change our exiting flights from NYC and keep them affordable). Then taking the trains to Arosa (at least 3 trains) and then getting to Como. But… it just seems with the kids and the luggage, despite the long drive, driving is ultimately easier.

HappyTrvlr

Instead of St- Moritz, stay in charming Pontresina. Much nicer.

janisj

1) There is absolutely no guarantee you will get an Audi crossover SUV. Unless that is the ONLY model in the rental fleet (not likely) you are booking an SUV 'or similar' - and even the 'or similar' isn't guaranteed - you will get the car that is available at the time.

2) It is a bad idea (really terrible) to drive at all immediately off a long haul flight - but to drive the nearly 4 hours from MXP to Arosa in likely wintry conditions is almost a death wish. Jet lag, micro sleeps, and unfamiliarity with the roads all add up to problems.

If you still decide to drive -- stay the night in Milan car-less and drive the next day.

neckervd

You have been told in your other tread (from Jan 2nd) that:
wheater is always unpredictable in the Alps. The roads that you plan to take may be dry and you will have no problem with your summer tires or they may be slippery because of snow or black ice;
winter tires are not compuilsory in Switzerland,but that in case of an accident no car insurance company would cover any damage on your on other cars or persons;

In the present post, you come again with the same questions.

Frankly, I cannot understand why you obviously refuse to rent a car with winter tires.
As MXP is relatively close to Aosta Valley (Breuil-Cervinia/Matterhorn, Gressoney, etc). where winter tires are compulsory I cannot imagine that you wouldn't get such a car if you ask for.

If you travel by public transport, you must go neither to Milan nor to Zurich:
board a Bellinzona bound train at the airport railway station and go on from Bellinzona by Postbus to Chur. Deparature from MXP every hr from 6.19 until 16.19.
For example: Malpensa dp 7.19 - Bellinzona ar 9.13. 1/2 hr layover (restaurants at the railway station), Bellinzona dp 9.42 - Chur ar 11.52. Connecting trains to Arosa at 12.08, 13.08, 14.08...........

Chur- Varenna:
You plan to travel via Julier Pass - Maloja Pass, whereas the Bernina Express goes via Albula Pass - Bernina Pass:
Chur dp 8.28 - Tirano ar 12.49, dp 13.08 - Varenna ar 14.34:

janisj

If anyone wants to see the original thread . . . LAKE COMO TOWN OPTIONS (March 16 - 21)

Finsteraarhorn

Hello everybody,

Firstly, I will surprise Lavandula, as Winter tyres are not mandatory in Switzerland. But it's mandatory to have an "appropriate equipment", hence if you cause an accident on Winter roads and you don't have Winter tyres, you are responsible of the accident and the insurance will not pay the damages. Possibly the police will also fine you for that.

But, in northern Italy Winter tyres are mandatory, thus if you rent the car in Italy, you will have Winter tyres! On the other hand, an italian rental car will possibly not have the mandatory Swiss highway sticker, necessary to cross the Alps by the S. Bernardino highway and tunnel, so maybe you will have to add the respective 40.- CHF to the budget.

On the way back, from St. Moritz you can drive the Maloja pass road to Chiavenna or the Bernina pass road to Tirano. Both roads are keeped open during Winter, but if it is snowing that day, you have to expect temporary closures and you will possibly have to drive on snow. If there is much snow on the road, either you have new Winter tyres and possibly a 4x4 vehicle, or you can bring and mount chains on your wheels.

jlewfirtree

Thanks! I wrote a long reply but the page froze and it was erased (despite my copying it!!!) OKAY, some of you have big feelings about my previous posts. Sending you hugs. Thanks to everyone else offering helpful advice.

Yes, I HAD posted first in the Italy forum, and wasn't satisfied with the responses I received, feeling many of my questions remained unanswered or left me feeling unclear (or needing to TOTALLY re conceptualize our trip). So, I posted again about the Swiss component in "Fodors Switzerland Forum." Ever so grateful to the stewards of these sites to assure they are not abused by worried mothers trying to plan vacations in places they've never traveled before!

1) I HAVE CHANGED MY BOOKING AND ADDED SNOW CHAINS! I assume we put them on ourselves IF the need should arise? And likewise, we can then take them OFF, once back in Italy. Please let me know if I'm incorrect about this.

2) My husband doesn't sleep much. We think hes a robot/ alien (but I'll save this info for a different kind of forum). We've travelled intercontinentaly many many many times, and he feels VERY confident that driving 3 hours after landing will not be a problem. We have come off 16 hour overnight flights, and he has driven without issue. I WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO DO THIS, and so i understand those so elegantly suggesting we have a "death wish." (I'm telling you, he's only partially human - you should meet him) WE MIGHT consider staying in LUGANO for the day / night, but I have a feeling my husband will be grumpy and annoyed (because he doesn't want to keep moving accommodation with the kids who could just sleep the whole ride). Also, he next morning waking up to Jet Lag we will likewise ALSO be tired but...at least the hassle of arriving and getting the car will have been the prior day.

3) SOMEONE MENTIONED PONTRESENA is better than St. Moritz. HOW ARE the FOLLOWING TOWNS: SURSES, MALOJA, SILVAPLANA? WE will have already spent 5 days in Arosa, and want to break up the trip to COMO. Would LOVE to stop someplace QUAINT and with a SPA or SAUNA (points if it has an indoor outdoor heated pool!!!) Will we see anything remarkably more picturesque going this longer, possibly more dangerous, way?

Thanks again!

jlewfirtree

I HAVE QUESTIONS. SO, We can BUY this Swiss Highway Sticker when we arrive? How do we buy it? We assumed we'd just drive this way: "

Take A9, A2 and A13/E43 to Waffenplatzstrasse in Chur, Svizra. Take exit 17-Chur-Süd from A13/E43

Take Arosastrasse, Calfreisen Tunnel, Arosastrasse, Clasaurer Tunnel, ... and Schanfiggerstrasse to Poststrasse in Arosa

On these roads, will I require the sticker? Will these roads potentially need the snow tires (between Chur and Arosa?)

Also, is there a MAJOR benefit in terms of scenery and charm to driving back this way (spending the night near St. Moritz)?

ROUTE 2:

Take A13/E43 to Albula in Sils im Domleschg. Take exit 22-Thusis-Süd from A13/E43

Continue on Albula. Take Tunnel Alvaschein to Julierstrasse/Stradung/Route 3 in Tiefencastel, Albula/Alvra

Continue on Route 3. Drive to Route 27 in Sankt Moritz

neckervd

You will have to pay a road toll for Italian Pedemontana moterway
https://apl.pedemontana.com/welcome
Once in Switzerland, you need the Swiss sticker for A2 and A13.
You can get it at the Swiss border post of Chiasso Brogeda.
Surses is not the name of a village, but of a Valley.
Bath and Sauna at St. Moritz: https://www.ovaverva.ch/en/sauna
There is no car ferrry from Varenna to Como, but to Menaggio
Count about 1 1/2 hrs fo the drive from Varenna to MXP (toll roads).

Finsteraarhorn

jlewfirtree, it's a good thing you carry chains. You should be able to put them on yourself if the need should arise. You can try them before to start, of dry ground, maybe also in a warmer place. And likewise, you have then to take them off, as soon you come out the snowy road. With chains, you have to drive slowly and only on snowy roads. On dry roads you would break them.

However, I rarely need them as on snowy roads, if the snow is hard and the slopes not too steep, new Winter tyres and a front wheels drive are mostly enough if you are an experienced snow driver.

Neckervd already answered about the sticker and yes, drive on Swiss roads in Winter with good Winter tyres.

To drive back by another road gives anyway benefits in terms of scenery. The more if the drive is through 2 alpine passes and lovely upper Engadin valley (St. Moritz).

lavandula

Hi again, I know you have just changed your booking but it might be worth checking that they will give you winter tyres. You can't just assume they will give them to you because you are travelling in winter, you have to ask specifically for them (hard lesson learned in Germany). If you request them, they will put them on for you. Snow chains are great - in snow - but you may only be driving on icy roads where you literally can't see the ice from where you are sitting, and you may never use the snow chains. They are not really a substitute for winter tyres. Yes, if they give chains to you, you will have to put them on yourselves - there are two ways if we are talking about the ones that are all chain (some have a plastic connecting cord that curves up and this won't work for them): either spread the chains on the ground in front of each tyre and drive onto them, then do them up; or take the tyres off and put them on (cumbersome method). There are also ones that are like a spider: https://spikes-spider.com and these are much easier to put on, but I imagine car rental places won't have these.

Good luck, things seem to be coming together for you!

Lavandula

jlewfirtree

Oh boy. I’m not sure how to assure winter tires. I guess I can call them on Skype (long distance)?

I’m booking through EXPEDIA

lavandula

Yes, this does surprise me! In Germany you have to have them - but "appropriate equipment" would cover this entirely without specifying chains or tyres. It's quite a minefield driving in winter. We have done trips in winter through Switzerland and it was really only a bit more difficult up in the mountains. In the valleys there was no problem at all!

Lavandula

lavandula

Yes, but you would have booked with a particular car company (Hertz, Sixt, Europcar, etc). Can't you just call them directly using the booking information from Expedia? Expedia are just a middle man, but the responsibility for supplying the car is with the car company.

Mostly those companies have a long-distance number (is it 800 where you live? where I live it's 1800, in Australia), and you won't incur any extra costs by talking to them even if they are on the other side of the country. You don't have to call them in Italy, your local company can help.

Lavandula

jlewfirtree

I wrote to my booking company and they DO NOT OFFER WINTER TIRES.

I asked them, HOW CAN I GET WINTER TIRES (that they DO NOT OFFER)

They said this: “due to high demand, winter tires cannot be guaranteed at this point; if available upon pick-up, it'll be an extra 15-25€/day (according to the group you may have booked) + VAT (22%) + airport (18%) or railway (14%) fees if applicable; snow chains, on the other hand, are included and free of charge.”

AGAIN, we have booked AN SUV! For about $500 for the duration of the trip.

At home, we have a crossover stationwagon, we have ONE SET OF TIRES. We do not change them in WINTER. My driveway is COVERED IN SNOW and I drive over it WITHOUT ISSUE.

SO it’s necessary to get WINTER TIRES, even though, in the states, we have NO SUCH THING, and even when we’ve driven IN THE ROCKIES to Vail or Breckenridge we’ve never even CONSIDERED “winter tires”.

ARE STANDARD ISSUE TIRES IN EUROPE WORSE than standard tires in the USA!?!?! (I’m asking as a joke because we all know Europe is more health and safety conscious)

jlewfirtree

We will drive the following routes (and I know we can’t predict weather and if it’s snowing then we adjust if needed)

1. MXP - AROSA via LUGANO (stopping often)
2. AROSA (we plan on taking the vast network of cable cars - lifts - etc to get around). MAYBE go to BEAR SANCTUARY — if that even requires driving?
3. DRIVE AROSA TO PONTSETRINA (stay the night - I IMAGINE THIS MIGHT BE THE TRICKIEST JOURNEY)
4. DRIVE PONTSETRINA to COMO
5. DRIVE ALL AROUND COMO. DRIVE TO BERGAMO. DRIVE TO LUGANO. (Aka - NOT IN MOUNTAINS).
6. DRIVE BACK TO MXP