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Hikrchick's new Scotland itinerary June 28-July 7

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Hikrchick's new Scotland itinerary June 28-July 7

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Old May 9th, 2019 | 03:44 AM
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Hikrchick's new Scotland itinerary June 28-July 7

Thanks to invaluable help from gardyloo and janisj, we have rethought our trip to Scotland and have come up with a new itinerary. Instead of a three-stop trip it's now turned into a road trip, thanks to a wonderful route suggested by Gardyloo:

Friday June 28: arrive early morning from EWR. Edinburgh, overnight: Dorstan Guest House
Saturday June 29: pick up car at EDI by 10 a.m. Edinburgh, overnight: Dorstan Guest House
Sunday June 30: Edinburgh, overnight: Dorstan Guest House
Monday July 1: Stirling to Callander, overnight: Lubnaig Guest House
Tuesday July 2: (gentle) hiking in Trossachs. Callander, overnight: Lubnaig Guest House
Wednesday July 3: to Glencoe. Overnight: Clan Macduff Hotel
Thursday July 4: to Kilmartin. Overnight: Cairnbaan Hotel
Friday July 5: to Glasgow. Return car. Overnight: Number 10 Hotel
Saturday July 6: Glasgow. Ovenright; Number 10 Hotel
Sunday July 7: morning departure to EWR

This sounds like a much better use of our time, and I think we both could use the mental rest that being out in nature brings.

Still to be determined: If Hikrguy wishes a golf lesson at Prestonfield Golf Course in EDI or if he would rather skip it.
I'm assuming we'll find some places to have a wee dram, as they say.

Thoughts? Suggestions?
--hikrchick
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Old May 9th, 2019 | 05:31 AM
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Looks very nice

Maybe instead of Prestonfield - try for a round at Loch Lomond (Tom Weiskopf designed and they've played the Scottish Open there) or Cameron House (I once ran into - almost literally - Sean Connery there). Both are on your route from Kilmartin to Glasgow and juts a short drive from GLA which is the best place to drop the car.
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Old May 9th, 2019 | 05:34 AM
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. . . Oh - meant to add -- have you tried for your date at the Clachaig Inn in Glencoe. I'd personally rather stay there over Clan MacDuff - but it is very popular so may be booked up.
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Old May 9th, 2019 | 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by janisj
. . . Oh - meant to add -- have you tried for your date at the Clachaig Inn in Glencoe. I'd personally rather stay there over Clan MacDuff - but it is very popular so may be booked up.
Hi Janisj -- Hikrguy found the Clan MacDuff so I don't know what else he researched. But I'll take a look at this one and mention it to him for sure. Thanks!
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Old May 9th, 2019 | 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by janisj
Looks very nice

Maybe instead of Prestonfield - try for a round at Loch Lomond (Tom Weiskopf designed and they've played the Scottish Open there) or Cameron House (I once ran into - almost literally - Sean Connery there). Both are on your route from Kilmartin to Glasgow and juts a short drive from GLA which is the best place to drop the car.
Thanks for these suggestions! The thing is, I do not play golf and I don't think he is interested in a round; only a lesson. And at this point I'm not even sure if he wants to do it anyway, since he tells me that "playing golf is an excuse to take a six-pack out on the golf course" and shoot the breeze with his best friend.
Yes, we are indeed dropping the car at GLA.
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Old May 9th, 2019 | 05:58 AM
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I think it looks fine. My only quibbles would be your hotel choices, in particular in Fort William and Glasgow.

Fort William is (my view but I know shared by many) not a very attractive place. It has plenty of services - restaurants, pubs, one of the few McDonalds in the western Highlands - but let's just say it's a bit wanting on the charm front. Maybe this choice was made for budget or availability reasons, but, well, enough said.

A second (hopefully small) issue I'd raise is the choice of hotels for Glasgow. I'm not familiar with that property, and it looks nice on its website, but to be honest the location is not the best IMO.

Much of Glasgow south of the Clyde has a very strong working class history; I worked for a time in the Govanhill district (where the hotel is located) and was shocked at the level of poverty and deprivation that was still present as late as the 1980s. Now of course that's a long time ago, and some gentrification has occurred (like everywhere in Glasgow) but the area still - IMO - comes up short on several fronts, including ease of access to central Glasgow, restaurant and pub access, and general ambiance. Mind, it's not a terrible area, and not a dangerous one at all, but if I had two nights in Glesca, I'd probably opt for someplace farther north, maybe around the Kelvingrove area that I thought you were looking at.

It's not clear if you plan to keep the car in Glasgow or drop it at GLA in advance of your leaving. If you plan to keep it, then I suppose the Govanhill location will be okay, but you'll have to drive it (and fight traffic and find parking) to see much of anything in Glasgow. Not the end of the world but possibly pretty inconvenient.

Edited to add - Just saw you're dropping the car at the airport on the way into town. In that case I'd definitely look at alternative locations in Glasgow, or else a good deal of your time is going to be spent sitting on buses or walking to and from the Crosshill train station. I checked and fortunately there's nothing scheduled for Hampden Park (the national football stadium) in that time frame; that part of town becomes impossible around match time.

Last edited by Gardyloo; May 9th, 2019 at 06:06 AM.
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Old May 9th, 2019 | 07:12 AM
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Didn't look at the Glasgow Property - totally agree with Gardyloo - not a great location. I'd look for a property in the center of the city (use Queen Street and Central Stations as guide points for location). Anything within 5 or 6 blocks of either one (they are only .5 a mile apart)

Is Hikrguy reading this thread? If so I won't comment on his two hotel choices (MacDuff and Number 10) If he IS reading we need to be gentle . . .
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Old May 9th, 2019 | 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Gardyloo
I think it looks fine. My only quibbles would be your hotel choices, in particular in Fort William and Glasgow.

Fort William is (my view but I know shared by many) not a very attractive place. It has plenty of services - restaurants, pubs, one of the few McDonalds in the western Highlands - but let's just say it's a bit wanting on the charm front. Maybe this choice was made for budget or availability reasons, but, well, enough said.

A second (hopefully small) issue I'd raise is the choice of hotels for Glasgow. I'm not familiar with that property, and it looks nice on its website, but to be honest the location is not the best IMO.

Much of Glasgow south of the Clyde has a very strong working class history; I worked for a time in the Govanhill district (where the hotel is located) and was shocked at the level of poverty and deprivation that was still present as late as the 1980s. Now of course that's a long time ago, and some gentrification has occurred (like everywhere in Glasgow) but the area still - IMO - comes up short on several fronts, including ease of access to central Glasgow, restaurant and pub access, and general ambiance. Mind, it's not a terrible area, and not a dangerous one at all, but if I had two nights in Glesca, I'd probably opt for someplace farther north, maybe around the Kelvingrove area that I thought you were looking at.

It's not clear if you plan to keep the car in Glasgow or drop it at GLA in advance of your leaving. If you plan to keep it, then I suppose the Govanhill location will be okay, but you'll have to drive it (and fight traffic and find parking) to see much of anything in Glasgow. Not the end of the world but possibly pretty inconvenient.

Edited to add - Just saw you're dropping the car at the airport on the way into town. In that case I'd definitely look at alternative locations in Glasgow, or else a good deal of your time is going to be spent sitting on buses or walking to and from the Crosshill train station. I checked and fortunately there's nothing scheduled for Hampden Park (the national football stadium) in that time frame; that part of town becomes impossible around match time.
Originally Posted by janisj
Didn't look at the Glasgow Property - totally agree with Gardyloo - not a great location. I'd look for a property in the center of the city (use Queen Street and Central Stations as guide points for location). Anything within 5 or 6 blocks of either one (they are only .5 a mile apart)

Is Hikrguy reading this thread? If so I won't comment on his two hotel choices (MacDuff and Number 10) If he IS reading we need to be gentle . . .

Hikrguy is not reading this thread -- I cull responses and email him. Honestly the reason he chose those hotels was because he freaked out that we didn't have anything and I don't know how he chose. Because usually I do a lot of front-end research and then give him a short list of 3 or 4 places to choose from. But I didn't do that this time. But I will absolutely mention your concerns.
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Old May 9th, 2019 | 12:34 PM
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OK - give him the assignment to find accommodations in either Ballachulish or Glencoe, not IN Fort William
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Old May 9th, 2019 | 12:44 PM
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Let's take one example, the 4th of July. It looks like you're starting the morning in the Glen Coe area (actually Fort William) and visiting Kilmartin on the way to an overnight opposite the Crinan Canal (the Cairnbaan) outside Lochgilphead. You don't say what you plan to do during that day, but I'm going to assume it won't include any time on the Isle of Mull, since logistically that would make for a very long and probably uncomfortable day. So if it's just a leisurely drive down to Oban and Kilmartin, then you'd have plenty of time to continue a bit farther that evening. My recommendation would be to go through Lochgilphead (pleasant but not much of a place) and continue up the A83 to Inveraray, probably around 45 minutes' drive or so from Lochgilphead. I looked at hotel prices and availability for the 4th, and for about the same price as the Cairnbaan you can stay at the Inveraray Inn, a very nice and perfectly located hotel looking out onto Loch Fyne. Hotel Inveraray | Loch Fyne Hotel Accommodation Inveraray

Inveraray is a very pretty "planned village," built by the Duke of Argyll, whose wee cottage, Inveraray Castle, is just up the road. (It was Cousin Shrimpy's digs in Downton Abbey.) It's quite a lovely spot, with numerous pubs and restaurants (some of which might have Loch Fyne seafood - really good.) If the next day takes you to Glasgow, starting from Inveraray would let you spend plenty of time around Loch Lomond (golf or the village of Luss) before you get to the airport. You could even head north from Inveraray to Kilchurn Castle (quite the setting) before heading to Loch Lomond and the city. Map - https://goo.gl/maps/2cCpCSZZQhSbBRfp6
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Old May 9th, 2019 | 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by janisj
OK - give him the assignment to find accommodations in either Ballachulish or Glencoe, not IN Fort William
will do. I've already emailed him about the Glasgow situation. I found several places on booking dot com that are in the city center.
And I figured out how to get to and from Glasgow airport with the special express bus.
We will drive down from Kilmartin, drop off the car and then make our way into town.

thank you for all your help!
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Old May 9th, 2019 | 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Gardyloo
Let's take one example, the 4th of July. It looks like you're starting the morning in the Glen Coe area (actually Fort William) and visiting Kilmartin on the way to an overnight opposite the Crinan Canal (the Cairnbaan) outside Lochgilphead. You don't say what you plan to do during that day, but I'm going to assume it won't include any time on the Isle of Mull, since logistically that would make for a very long and probably uncomfortable day. So if it's just a leisurely drive down to Oban and Kilmartin, then you'd have plenty of time to continue a bit farther that evening. My recommendation would be to go through Lochgilphead (pleasant but not much of a place) and continue up the A83 to Inveraray, probably around 45 minutes' drive or so from Lochgilphead. I looked at hotel prices and availability for the 4th, and for about the same price as the Cairnbaan you can stay at the Inveraray Inn, a very nice and perfectly located hotel looking out onto Loch Fyne. Hotel Inveraray | Loch Fyne Hotel Accommodation Inveraray

Inveraray is a very pretty "planned village," built by the Duke of Argyll, whose wee cottage, Inveraray Castle, is just up the road. (It was Cousin Shrimpy's digs in Downton Abbey.) It's quite a lovely spot, with numerous pubs and restaurants (some of which might have Loch Fyne seafood - really good.) If the next day takes you to Glasgow, starting from Inveraray would let you spend plenty of time around Loch Lomond (golf or the village of Luss) before you get to the airport. You could even head north from Inveraray to Kilchurn Castle (quite the setting) before heading to Loch Lomond and the city. Map - https://goo.gl/maps/2cCpCSZZQhSbBRfp6
Thank you gardyloo! Yes, you are correct, I think Hikrguy is anticipating a leisurely drive and to see what pops up. I don't really know anything more than that; we have not yet had a chance to speak about the trip and just keep emailing each other.
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Old May 12th, 2019 | 07:19 AM
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We've revised again. Hikrguy was very receptive to the advice from Gardyloo and Janis about changing the two hotels. We've changed the hotel from Fort William to Ballaclulish, and have changed the hotel in Glasgow to a more central location:

Friday June 28: arrive early morning from EWR. Edinburgh, overnight: Dorstan Guest House
Saturday June 29: pick up car at EDI by 10 a.m. Edinburgh, overnight: Dorstan Guest House
Sunday June 30: Edinburgh, overnight: Dorstan Guest House
Monday July 1: Stirling to Callander, overnight: Lubnaig Guest House
Tuesday July 2: (gentle) hiking in Trossachs. Callander, overnight: Lubnaig Guest House
Wednesday July 3: to Ballaclulish. Overnight: Ballaclulish House
Thursday July 4: Ballaclulish to Kilmartin. Overnight: Cairnbaan Hotel
Friday July 5: Kilmartin to Glasgow. Return car. Overnight: Novotel Glasgow Centre
Saturday July 6: Glasgow. Overnight: Novotel Glasgow Centre
Sunday July 7: morning departure to EWR

I've been looking at some old threads where Gardyloo and Janis have given advice, and now we have a couple questions:

Is it too much on Thursday, to drive from Ballaclulish, over to Mull, and then down to Kilmartin? Is it too much driving? I saw an old thread with some of Gardyloo's photos of castles there and it looks amazing -- but above in this thread, Gardyloo says it would be an uncomfortably long day. Thoughts?
If that itinerary is OK, what would be the most convenient way to get to Mull from Ballaclulish? It looks like we have to almost make a circle -- across a bridge at Corran, and then down that peninsula on the A884, and then cross at Lochaline, then on to Mull? Then how much of Mull is doable in a drive over to the ferry to cross back to the mainland at Oban? Or are we just setting ourselves up for a lot of aggravation?

the other choice is to skip Mull altogether. Leave Ballaclulish, drive down the A828, and then keep going south to Kilmartin. What is the time differential between these two options?

Thank you!
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Old May 12th, 2019 | 08:25 AM
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CRAP !!!! I wrote out a very detailed answer and it vaporized

The short version: The total drive time whether you take the Lochaline/Fishnish ferry over and Craignure/Oban Ferry or Oban/Craignure both ways would be almost identical. Visiting Fionnphort and Iona and that part of the island the total drive would be 7 to 7.5 hours. If you only went up to Tobermory and back the total drive to Kilmartin would be maybe an hours less. Both drive times are JUST the drives w/o any stops. I sure wouldn't do this --- and Mull is one of my favorite places anywhere
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Old May 12th, 2019 | 08:28 AM
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I would never recommend Mull as a day trip unless you wanted to spend the whole time in the car and very little seeing things. Like Skye, it's a very big island, and the shape of the island, basically three long peninsulas, means that driving around it (on single track roads) takes a lot of time. For example, Google maps (laughingly) estimates a Ballachulish > Tobermory > Fionnphort > Oban drive, counting ferry time but not counting the wait for the ferries, at six hours. In my view this would take a whole day, even if you just got out of the car in each of those places, took a picture, then moved on to the next destination. So yeah, I think I'd pass on Mull this time.

Let me back up and put another couple of ideas out there.

On the 3rd of July, Callendar to Ballachulish is not a very long drive, but it's an exceptionally scenic one as it passes the Rannoch Moor and Glen Coe (Ballachulish is just a few miles from Glencoe village.) So at a minimum I'd do one of a couple of things, or even both are possible. The first is to drive down (dead end so you have to double back) Glen Etive. Glen Etive is (to me, anyway) one of the most beautiful places in the western Highlands. (It's been used in a couple of movies including Skyfall (James Bond) and one of the Harry Potter Deathly Hallows films.) Driving down to Loch Etive from the main A82 road takes a half hour or so, but the hour round trip is one of the best hours one can spend in Scotland.

The other "add on" to the Callendar > Ballachulish day is to head north from Glencoe through Fort William and out the A830 (the "Road to the Isles") to Glenfinnan at the top of Loch Shiel. This is where Bonnie Prince Charlie raised his standard at the beginning of the 1745 rising, and there's a moving monument at the head of the loch. It's also where the famous railway viaduct in the Harry Potter movies is located, an easy walk on several trails from the access road. But this is a spectacularly beautiful area too, well worth even a short visit. Again the detour in drive time would be around a couple of hours at most, so even both detours - Glen Etive and Glenfinnan - would still be doable in a comfortable day that starts in Callendar and ends at Ballachulish.

On the fourth, you could also do a bit of a detour that actually bypasses Oban, but which would include a brief swing inland to Kilchurn Castle, then back out on some pretty small roads (but lovely ones) to Kilmartin, then south to your hotel near Lochgilphead. You'd pass Castle Stalker offshore between Ballachulish and Connel, then east on the A85 to Kilchurn Castle, then back to the southwest on the B840 along Loch Awe all the way back to the main road into Kilmartin. Allowing a couple of hours in and around Kilmartin, you'd still have a good but not overly rushed day.

Here's a map with the whole Callendar - Lochgilphead route with all these detours. https://goo.gl/maps/aBZVWDstYcmpNz4q8 . Remember, add at least 30% to Google's time estimates, but also remember this is for two days' worth of driving.

(Also, just FYI, it's a hard "p" in Lochgilphead - "Loch Gilp Head," not "Loch Gilfed.")
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Old May 12th, 2019 | 08:37 AM
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On the Callander > Ballachulish detours Gardyloo suggests -- I'd add at short diversion out to Killin and the Falls of Dochart,

https://www.agefotostock.com/age/en/...PLP-170801p237


(not the best photo of the Falls but an idea)
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Old May 12th, 2019 | 11:03 AM
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Thanks to you both for honest and pragmatic responses. Gardyloo-- That is a perfect plan! You get two thumbs up from Hikrguy for making a great, doable road trip for us! Thank you for this alternative plan to Mull. We are so excited to see castles, and to work on our photography skills, and to just be in Nature.

What I'm thinking will be a good idea is to pick up a couple of apples and some snacks in the co-op in Callander to have in the car for a nibble during the road trip.

Here is now another question:
Hikrguy loves single malt whisky. I'm an amateur and I enjoy a wee dram or two -- and I also know that I don't like the ones that taste like peat ;-). But he loves tasting different styles and learning about them.
Would there be a distillery that we can stop in during this road trip? We would only need one. I see Deanston on the way to Callandar, and the Auchentoshan Distillery is on the way down to Glasgow. And of course, Oban up by Ballaclulish.

Any thoughts or recommendations among these three?
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Old May 12th, 2019 | 11:20 AM
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>>But he loves tasting different styles and learning about them.
Would there be a distillery that we can stop in during this road trip? We would only need one. I see Deanston on the way to Callandar<<

One distillery is almost identical to every other distillery. Very slight differences in the pot still shapes etc. Deanston is as easy as any and is only a couple of miles from Doune Castle (less than a mile as the crow flies) so an easy 'two-fer'

I don't like the really smoky/peaty ones either. My ex said it was because I'm a wimp -- But an 18 yo Macallan or a Balvenie -- those are my style. I have a bottle of Laphroiag that will never be finished (not by me anyway).

Your husband can taste a wide range of all sorts of single malts in most pubs.
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Old May 12th, 2019 | 11:25 AM
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Most of the distilleries on the west side of the country will produce peaty malts, mostly not nearly as smoky as the Islay ones (that I'm not overly fond of.) I much prefer the northern whiskies; the Glenmorangie people should pay me a handsome commission for all the business I've tried to send their way over the years. However the Deanston whiskies sound pretty good from the reviews.

But if you're going to spend any time in Edinburgh, there are several whisky tasting rooms that might be worthwhile, at least to narrow the field. Here's the Scotsman's list - https://foodanddrink.scotsman.com/dr...-in-edinburgh/

Last edited by Gardyloo; May 12th, 2019 at 11:27 AM.
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Old May 13th, 2019 | 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Gardyloo
Most of the distilleries on the west side of the country will produce peaty malts, mostly not nearly as smoky as the Islay ones (that I'm not overly fond of.) I much prefer the northern whiskies; the Glenmorangie people should pay me a handsome commission for all the business I've tried to send their way over the years. However the Deanston whiskies sound pretty good from the reviews.

But if you're going to spend any time in Edinburgh, there are several whisky tasting rooms that might be worthwhile, at least to narrow the field. Here's the Scotsman's list - https://foodanddrink.scotsman.com/dr...-in-edinburgh/
oh man I can't stand those Islay ones. Tastes to me like someone put out a cigarette in it. Blech. Glenmorangie is just the best, isn't it. Yum yum yum. We will check out the Scotsman's list and most likely you'll find us in one!
Thanks!
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