Horrible Tiger Temple
Jun 1st, 2016, 01:24 AM
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Horrible Tiger Temple
I recall last year participating in a thread where the vast majority of Fodor's bloggers were in favor of the infamous Tiger Temple. Most people denied there was anything nefarious about the temple, its "monks" and the 100+ drugged tigers. Well, here's the evidence!
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/gene...temple-freezer
I wish more people would avoid tourist traps that so obviously and blatantly exploit animals. There are hundreds in Thailand alone and ALL of them should be boycotted by all travelers. Please think before supporting evil like this.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/gene...temple-freezer
I wish more people would avoid tourist traps that so obviously and blatantly exploit animals. There are hundreds in Thailand alone and ALL of them should be boycotted by all travelers. Please think before supporting evil like this.
Jun 2nd, 2016, 06:05 AM
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When it was not known about how horrible the Tiger Temple was, the threads were filled with FODOR travelers sharing how wonderful the experience was to take selfies with the drugged and abused tigers and how critics were full of BS.... But now that the truth is there for everyone to see, not one comment. This is sick... I guess it's time to find some dolphins to swim with and bears to entertain us on two legs.... Typical.
Jun 2nd, 2016, 07:10 AM
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I don't think I ever really had an opinion on the place either way, but rubbing other posters' noses in it surely doesn't seem like the most productive way to go about making your point. Live and let live, right? Or maybe just make them grovel and beg for forgiveness?
Jun 2nd, 2016, 04:25 PM
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Not seeking apologies at all. I am seeking recognition from people that WE tourists were the reason this place existed in the first place. And our spending millions of dollars a year for gross and irresponsible tourism creates nightmares like this. We are at fault just as much as the man in China who drinks the wine made with the carcasses of the young tigers. I think we need to get our noses rubbed in it. And absolute NO - I don't agree with "live and let live" when it comes to the wanton murder of innocent animals.
Jun 2nd, 2016, 07:19 PM
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Mistreated animals have no voice, so it stands to reason that we should all be supportive of those who speak up in support of them. Thank you, cokesmith and thursdays, for speaking in strong voices for these animals.
Jun 3rd, 2016, 01:03 AM
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Thanks CaliforniaLady! The place wreaked of abuse to anyone who was paying attention. It really is time to create an awareness that permeates the tourism industry. What does it mean to be a responsible tourist? Wildlife-based tourism is great and necessary but once you have captive animals performing for tourists - a line has been crossed. The Tiger Temple is just the tip of the iceberg...
Jun 3rd, 2016, 04:04 AM
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I agree. Let start with this: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takea...tID=2072045420
Jun 3rd, 2016, 05:10 AM
#12
Thank you CaliforniaLady, but it is cokesmith who deserves the thanks on this one. It is certainly interesting to go back and re-read some of the earlier threads. As cokesmith noted, those vocal supporters of the Tiger Temple have gone strangely quiet.
Should we "live and let live" the abuse of elephants at Amber, for example, as well?
Should we "live and let live" the abuse of elephants at Amber, for example, as well?
Jun 3rd, 2016, 06:52 AM
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Thursdays, my point was to "hint" to other posters that we shouldn't be criticizing your delivery style, when you have consistently pointed out on this board cases of animal abuse in Asia. Personally, I did not realize that we should not have ridden the elephants at Amber, until you pointed it out. Certainly, we need biology conservationists like cokesmith to support the animals, but others need to get involved as well.
Our younger son volunteers to walk shelter dogs on the weekends, and my husband and I often join him. My son is "certified" to walk the larger jumpy dogs, who are often difficult adoptees. When we return these dogs to their cages, the look of sadness on their faces breaks my heart. It reminds me that animals have the same emotions that we do, and deserve our respect.
Our younger son volunteers to walk shelter dogs on the weekends, and my husband and I often join him. My son is "certified" to walk the larger jumpy dogs, who are often difficult adoptees. When we return these dogs to their cages, the look of sadness on their faces breaks my heart. It reminds me that animals have the same emotions that we do, and deserve our respect.
Jun 3rd, 2016, 01:05 PM
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Whilst I deplore animal cruelty in any place or situation, let's not forget that there are more tigers held in captivity in the USA than there are in the wild
http://www.worldwildlife.org/stories...an-in-the-wild
Not all of these will be held in anything like approaching humane conditions.
I totally agree with CaliforniaLady that animals have no voice and we should speak up for them. But to digress somewhat, as a country, in addition to animal cruelty, Thailand has many, many problems: a military dictatorship, rampant institutional corruption, an appalling human rights record (officially blacklisted by the US and other governments) and human trafficking, notably of Burmese migrants and ethnic Thai minorities.
Maybe, just maybe, it should be these issues, which have just a big a bearing on tourism, where awareness should be raised. Surely , it is the treatment of human beings which should always take priority.
http://www.worldwildlife.org/stories...an-in-the-wild
Not all of these will be held in anything like approaching humane conditions.
I totally agree with CaliforniaLady that animals have no voice and we should speak up for them. But to digress somewhat, as a country, in addition to animal cruelty, Thailand has many, many problems: a military dictatorship, rampant institutional corruption, an appalling human rights record (officially blacklisted by the US and other governments) and human trafficking, notably of Burmese migrants and ethnic Thai minorities.
Maybe, just maybe, it should be these issues, which have just a big a bearing on tourism, where awareness should be raised. Surely , it is the treatment of human beings which should always take priority.
Jun 3rd, 2016, 02:02 PM
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So maybe all this means that things are so bad in Thailand that we should be boycotting traveling there and propping up a corrupt government with our tourist dollars (or euros, yen or whatever).
The shrimp and fishing industry there relies on slave labor and trafficking so that we can buy cheaper shrimp here.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/w...-shrimp-today/
Thailand was the only government to vote against the United Nations Forced Labour Convention at the ILO's annual ministerial conference in 2014. They only finally changed their vote after huge international pressure was applied.
We can't even rely on their government to keep people safe in their airlines.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/19/travel...iation-safety/
The list goes on and on.
It is hard to quantify evil. But even if the Thai government is somewhat "better" than Myanmar was when we boycotted traveling there, I have to ask myself, do I really want to help keep a Thai military dictatorship in power by spending my money there?
The shrimp and fishing industry there relies on slave labor and trafficking so that we can buy cheaper shrimp here.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/w...-shrimp-today/
Thailand was the only government to vote against the United Nations Forced Labour Convention at the ILO's annual ministerial conference in 2014. They only finally changed their vote after huge international pressure was applied.
We can't even rely on their government to keep people safe in their airlines.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/19/travel...iation-safety/
The list goes on and on.
It is hard to quantify evil. But even if the Thai government is somewhat "better" than Myanmar was when we boycotted traveling there, I have to ask myself, do I really want to help keep a Thai military dictatorship in power by spending my money there?
Jun 3rd, 2016, 09:55 PM
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Crellston - you can't falsely dichotomise this issue - it does just involved tiger parts in isolation - this is a huge smuggling trade that involves people as well as animals - it is a reflection of the Thai authorities attitude to wildlife and conservation.
citing other "human' or wildlife problems in other countries in no way mitigate what went on here - and we never ignore one issue at the expense of another - especially when these issues are interlinked.
Vis-a-vis one of the guys "stopped" taking a truck-load of tiger parts and pelts out of the temple was apparently a member of the border police....these international criminals certainly don't restrict themselves to one trade in particular and the temple didn't operate in isolation.
citing other "human' or wildlife problems in other countries in no way mitigate what went on here - and we never ignore one issue at the expense of another - especially when these issues are interlinked.
Vis-a-vis one of the guys "stopped" taking a truck-load of tiger parts and pelts out of the temple was apparently a member of the border police....these international criminals certainly don't restrict themselves to one trade in particular and the temple didn't operate in isolation.
Jun 5th, 2016, 07:53 AM
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Can I just jump in here and say that the painting elephants aren't having fun either....no matter how much they seem to smile?? Their spirits have been broken after torturous training and they all need to be rescued. It's time to be real about these things.
Jun 5th, 2016, 03:15 PM
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Let's hope that this scandal will make the general public - including Fodorites - more aware of the issues involved in ALL aspects of encountering animals.
thailand has a diabolical record when it come to animal welfare and conservation, they are in serious trouble with CITES who have threatened sanction before regarding their lack of activity over the ivory trade.
Many visitors to Thailand and even people who have lived here for several years fail to grasp the all pervasive nature of graft, nepotism and corruption which allows this sort of thing to flourish.
A simple answer is this. If you really MUST encounter some animals whilst on holiday, familiarise yourself with some basic concepts of welfare and conservation - this will help you to spot fraudsters. then do some research into the establishment you wish to visit.
with elephants, if they off rides or do tricks they are exploitative, with big cats - you can't breed them without a licence and they can never be released into the wild - so why are they breeding them.
Street animals are habitually drugged to make them handleable in public - often they aren't eve local species.
This isn't a comprehensive list - it's just off the top of my head.....maybe I'll sit dow and write "20 things to think about" later..............
thailand has a diabolical record when it come to animal welfare and conservation, they are in serious trouble with CITES who have threatened sanction before regarding their lack of activity over the ivory trade.
Many visitors to Thailand and even people who have lived here for several years fail to grasp the all pervasive nature of graft, nepotism and corruption which allows this sort of thing to flourish.
A simple answer is this. If you really MUST encounter some animals whilst on holiday, familiarise yourself with some basic concepts of welfare and conservation - this will help you to spot fraudsters. then do some research into the establishment you wish to visit.
with elephants, if they off rides or do tricks they are exploitative, with big cats - you can't breed them without a licence and they can never be released into the wild - so why are they breeding them.
Street animals are habitually drugged to make them handleable in public - often they aren't eve local species.
This isn't a comprehensive list - it's just off the top of my head.....maybe I'll sit dow and write "20 things to think about" later..............
