suze

Why drive - afraid of flying?

Hello? Because they are claustrophobic -PalQ- it's the entire point of this thread.

StCirq

Pal can't or doesn't read.

I'd have to get out maps and scour websites to see how to approach this issue, but I sure agree with kerouac that the cliffhanging roads freak me out no end, and I almost crashed and burned in a long Italian tunnel once years ago merging in the dark with a large, long truck, so though I don't have PSTD or any identifiable maladies, I totally get the fear.

Is there not a way to take a boat from NYC or somewhere on the East Coast of the USA to somewhere east of Italy, and then backtrack? Like Greece or Turkey, maybe? As I said I'd need to check maps, but I'm on vacation at the moment and don't have my library with me and can't spend much time online.

PalenQ

Yes was amiss not reading OP carefully rather than skimming quickly. So they are also taking a boat cruise back to States? Meaning they have to get back to Southampton or Hamburg for the return cruise? Double trouble. My heart goes out to OP - Yes seems most logical to take cruise from Southhampton or Hamburg to Italy and back. Must be some, especially from Southampton or English ports.

Again I sympathize with you.

bvlenci

They wouldn't have to take a tunnel to get from Southampton, there are plenty of ferries.
I said they'd have to take a tunnel if they pick up a car in Southampton. And I suggested taking a ferry to France instead.

However, the best way to avoid tunnels would be to take a boat to somewhere closer to Rome than either Southampton or Hamburg. Boats don't go through tunnels! Sassafrass says there are cruises to Spain, and I've heard of Disney cruises from Florida to Barcelona. If you can get to Barcelona,The Grimaldi line has ferries from there to Civitavecchia. The ferry takes nearly a full day and night, but it's well fitted out, almost a cruise ship.

I think the second.best way would be to travel by train, if an eyemask, earplugs, and medication would make it bearable. There are tunnels on the train routes. As I said, Italy is a mountainous country.

I never heard of anyone trapped in a car in a steel box on a train. There are trains that take your car along to the destination, but you yourself travel in a regular train carriage. In any case, if you take a train, you would rent the car in or near Rome, to avoid taking it on the train. I take the train nearly everywhere; it's my preferred method of travel, for reasonable distances.

Traveler_Nick

How about taking one of the few remaining night trains and sleeping?

A train even in a tunnel is a lot bigger than a car.

How long is this trip? Starting in either Germany or the UK isn't exactly a short stroll to central Italy. Worse avoiding tunnels will often mean taking older slower roads. Which leads me to ask when? Winter on some of those roads is challenging. The further north or the higher in altitude the longer winter lasts.

If you can get to the UK isn't there a ferry to northern Spain? From there get yourself to Barcelona. Take the ferry to Civitavecchia. If you can get yourself to either of Portugal or mainland Spain you could do the same thing avoid the UK.

bilboburgler

You could catch a ferry from Barcelona to roughly Rome, so avoiding the tunnels completely

PalenQ

And again the most straight forward route sans tunnels via roads and boats - drive to Nice or Marseille and take ferries to Corsica and then to Italy from there. Seems most simple involving ferries and cheapest too perhaps.

Night

neckervd

All highways and train lines leading to Italy (through the Alps or along the Riviera) have tunnels, not necessarily around the divide between the North and the South of the Alps, but for sure in the Valleys leading to these points.
However, you can avoid these tunnels in many cases by taking secondary roads, not only in Austria, but in France and Switzerland too. In order to find a tunnel-free itinerary, you have to load down maps at a scale of about 1:50,000 and to check the whole itinerary, mile per mile.
In Switzerland for example, the itinerary Lindau im Bodensee - Bregenz city center - St. Margrethen - Chur - Lenzerheide - Tiefencastel - Mon - Salouf - Cunter - Julier Pass - Silvaplauna - Bernina Pass - Madonna di Tirano - Stazzona - Aprica - Edolo - Forno Allione - Old road - Darfo Boario - Lovere Village - Old Val Cavallina road - Bergamo could work

neckervd

" And again the most straight forward route sans tunnels via roads and boats - drive to Nice or Marseille and take ferries to Corsica and then to Italy from there. Seems most simple involving ferries and cheapest too perhaps"

For me, ferry garages are more claustrophobic than any alpine tunnel, however.
But there are tons of ferries from Marseille and Toulon to Bastia and from Bastia to Leghorn.
An alternative could be
Toulon - Porto Tores (Sardinia) plus Porto Torres or Olbia - Civitavecchia (port of Rome).

kerouac

Is EVERY tunnel unbearable? Many of the tunnels along the French coast to Italy, even if there are quite a few, only last about 5 seconds -- that's not at all like the St Gotthard or the Mont Blanc tunnels.

I sometimes travel with a friend who has vertigo, particularly when crossing bridges. When I have driven with him, I just tell him to close his eyes when we are approaching a big bridge, and it all goes well. But even in Paris, he cannot walk across most bridges over the Seine. If we take a bus, he can do it.

PalenQ

Then Paris-Italy night train - could be fine as you may be asleep or have windows closed and not realize the relatively few tunnels on that route via Mondane.

neckervd

BTW: the Thello train doesn't run via Chambery - Modane - Bardonnèche - Suse - Turin, but via Dôle - Mont'Or tunnel - Lausanne - Simplon and Varzo tunnels - Stresa.....

sugarmaple

justheavenfun, my DH suffered from debilitating fear of large bridges. All our routes were planned months in advance to avoid them, so you have my sympathies.

We found an MD through our GP who specializes in hypnosis, and he helped immensely. After a few months of therapy, he’s improved to a degree neither of us thought possible. Bridges are still something he’s quite wary of, but they no longer determine our route.

Just something you may want to consider in your search. Good luck.

PalenQ

The Mackinac ('mackinaw') Bridge is about five miles long linking Duh UP and Michigan's Lower Peninsula and they have people there will be drive a car over the bridge for those drivers afraid of doing so - several a day, I had a macho friend who hailed from De UP but who could not drive himself over that bridge. And a fes cars have been blown off the bridge in the past (bridge closes in strong winds but gusts can come up.

justheavenfun

Thanks so much.

justheavenfun

Yeah, the train into Penn Station in NYC .... the last 10 minutes are hell because it's in a covered area or tunnel.
I have tried hypnosis and EMDR and still looking for a way to overcome this PTSD crap.

I'm grateful to everyone for helping or trying to help. JHF