cali88

I am looking at the various ways to get from my hotel to the airport and possible going to the Great Wall from my hotel. A friend of mines suggested I call up a driver in Beijing. Is that truly better than the train, bus, subway or taxi system?

thursdaysd

No.

temppeternh

This depends upon which part of the Wall you wish to visit. But there are several that may easily be reached by public bus, train, or fairly priced one-day tours aimed at local people. For those further flung, 'Calling up a driver in Beijing,' is practically a guarantee that you will pay too much, and you are better off to negotiate a day in advance with taxi drivers flagged down in the street.

Reaching the Wall by public transport will cost (return) tens of yuan--in one case as little as ¥12 altogether. Taking a taxi costs hundreds.

amln

Back in 2005 we just spoke with a taxi driver and negotiated a price of 550 yuan to go to Jinshanling and back (back then it was 55 Euro, which was quite acceptable given the long distance):

http://www.molon.de/travelogues/China/2005/#1110

The entire trip lasted seven hours.

nina88

I think it depends on your comfort level. We just came back from our trip and for Beijing, we contracted a driver to pick us up (RMB 150) as we felt that we just want to transfer to the hotel the easiest way after a 14 hr. flight. During our 5-day stay in Beijing, we went to the sites by ourselves, by taking subways and of course, without any guides. For the Great Wall, we took the Mutinyu entrance and again, contracted the same driver for an 8-hour round trip (RMB 600). We used Joe at www.joe-service.com. The transfer was done by his partner and he was quite late but the Great Wall was done by Joe himself; we're glad we had it done that way and thought the extra expense was very much worth it.

EllenLM

I like having a car and driver (could be a taxi and driver) to take my (many) visitors to and from the Wall. While public transportation is definitely doable, having a car and driver gives you a lot more flexibility in terms of where you visit and the amount of time you spend there.

Above all else, I strongly recommend you do NOT take a bus prearranged by your hotel. It will stop at many other hotels to pick up other tourists and will stop at a "jade factory" or "pearl factory" on the return to Beijing. I had a colleague do this recently (against my advice!!) and it took 13 hours, only 1-1/2 hours of which was spent at the Wall.

I use a driver who has a clean (smoke-free) nice car, picks you up at your location, takes you to the destination of your choice, waits for you while you're on the Wall, and returns you to the place of your choosing. He charges 700RMB and I usually encourage my visitors to give him a 100RMB tip (I know, I know that goes against all that is sacred in this land of no tipping, but he is really good and has been unfailingly reliable).

If you do your homework before you go, you can do the Great Wall on your own, but I have found it helpful to have a guide (a genuine one, not someone who pretends to be) explain the history. It makes the time on the Wall more meaningful.

One place I can recommend is the China Culture Center (www.chinaculturecenter.org). Although I've never used them for Beijing touring, I've taken several trips with them and have been very pleased. They charge less than 500RMB/person for transportation and a guide to the Great Wall and the Ming Tombs.

Hope you really enjoy your visit to this fabulous city!!

thursdaysd

Since you apparently live in China, and understand that it's a no-tipping culture, could you explain why you would encourage visitors to ignore that policy? Surely this simply sets up other visitors to encounter the expectation that they will tip, and erodes the whole policy.

kja

Wow, EllenLM, your friends must have WAY more disposable income than I do. Do they know that you are recommending an option that costs about 50 times what they would actually need to pay to see the Great Wall? And are they not interested in the experience of getting out and about among the residents of Beijing, or do they prefer to be whisked around in a bubble instead of actually spending any time in that fascinating city? Finally, are they aware that you are asking them to violate cultural norms? Your intentions may be very good, but your choices might not be theirs. And it can sometimes take a lot to reject the advice of someone who, like you, is undoubtedly trying to make their visit more pleasant.

temppeternh

¥800 is much more than you need to pay to hire a car/cab to and from the the Great Wall. The China Culture Centre, as is self-evident from what it says on its website, is not offering 'real' guides but only high prices. Accurate information on the Wall is best found and read before leaving home, and once on the Wall a guide is no use to you at all. If an organised trip of some kind is preferred (although it is entirely unnecessary) then there's better value for money to be found at http://beijinghikers.com, as well as access to some sections of the Wall little visited by others.

temppeternh

> Back in 2005 we just spoke with a taxi driver and negotiated a price of 550 yuan

Back in 2005 ¥300 would have been enough. ¥550 is plenty now.

AngelinaDiaz

i dont think so, unless you can find a driver who can talk english.

JPDeM

From the airport to your hotel you take a taxi. To move around the city, subway is best. For the Wall better hire a driver, cost is 550 to 650RMB for the day. Plenty advertise in www.thebeijinger.com You can also take a taxi if you are able to tell him where to go and can bargain in mandarin.

thursdaysd

There is no need to speak Mandarin to bargain in China. Not if you can write numbers or own a calculator. (Often the person you're bargaining with owns the calculator...)

temppeternh

Any one targeting foreigners in The Beijinger is by definition going to cost more than someone you flag down in the street and bargain with (it may take two or three tries to get the price you want). ¥550 (or less) is for the further flung destinations such as Jinshanling, not the ones merely 80km or so away.

EllenLM

Thursdaysd: I want to respond to your comment about tipping. Yes, I tip the driver I use for my colleagues to visit the Great Wall and I encourage them to do so. This man is loyal, helpful, and has provided service that goes way beyond any reasonable expectation. I have needed to contact him at 3 a.m. for emergency service and he has been there without complaint. I have colleagues who have become ill in his car and he takes care of them without complaint. When he picks me up from the airport in Beijing's brutally hot summer heat, he has a bottle of cold (!) water for me. The extra money I give him goes into his pocket (and not his boss's pocket). I am quite comfortable with this arrangement and make no apologies for it.

EllenLM

KJA: you are really quite judgmental. Perhaps you could lighten up a bit and consider that maybe I do a pretty good job of matching my many visitors' needs with all that Beijing has to offer. I have more than 100 visitors each year, mostly for business but others for personal travel. Their ages range from 9 to 80. Some are highly experienced travelers, but others are not (I just had one who had never been on an airplane before). Some are mobile and agile, while others have rather severe limitations on their ability to get around but most definitely want to experience Beijing.

I wrote my reply to give an alternative response to Cali88's question. With options, he/she can make choices.

thursdaysd

@Ellen - That is not a good reason to ignore local custom. I feel sure the driver provides equally good service to his Chinese customers.

You seem to be the judgemental one. Kja is a long time and very helpful poster here, and has lots of credibility. Having more options isn't good if the options in question are bad.

100 visitors a year? What business are you running?

kja

EllenLM: Hmm... I reread my post, and I see that I posed several questions, but the only real assumption I seem to have made is that you are well-intentioned. And I have no reason to doubt that you are well-intentioned. But that does NOT necessarily mean that your actions match your guests' needs or preferences. I am reminded of a situation in which business colleagues in another country did something that they genuinely thought I would appreciate, but it actually put me in an extremely uncomfortable situation that didn't become clear until it was too late for me to avoid it. They meant well, but the outcome was most decidedly not welcome, and the situation could have been avoided quite easily if they had asked me a few simple questions about my preferences first. I continue to assume that you are well intentioned and I hope that you offer your guests the same thing you say you tried to provide by replying to the OP, namely options: If your guests have information about costs and local norms for tipping (among other things), and if you make it clear that you will support whatever choice they make, I'm sure they can make their own decisions.

JPDeM

Sure one can find a cheap way to go to the Wall but most people do hire a driver.
And taxi drivers do not carry calculators to bargain with you. Just try to tell him where you want to go and want him to wait. He won't even let you finish your sentence and drive away. No driver speaks english. I should not say that, I once had one who could speak about 10 words.

kja

As I recall, I only took a few taxis while in Beijing, but several of the drivers spoke English quite well. They said they had learned for the Olympics. Maybe that has changed. As I recall, one told me that he thinks some drivers pretend to NOT speak English with those who didn't insist on using the meter. I have no idea whether there is any truth to that idea. I do remember that drivers I encountered who refused to use the meter were generally adamant in insisting that they did not speak English.

More to the point, whatever the cost differential, I am VERY glad that I took public transportation to the Great Wall and MANY other sites in China. Some of my most memorable moments came from sharing those rides with Chinese people, whether they were locals or tourists. We couldn't always talk with one another, but we could interact and communicate after a fashion. Some were very patient and persistent in working with me and my phrase book, although that generally only worked if they could read pidgin, since that's how my pocket dictionary was ordered. Other times, we were limited to nonverbal communication, and I am always pleasantly surprised to find how much can be communicated without words or with only a very few of them! Too, there were many moments that I treasured just for the glimpse into others' lives -- watching parents with their children or adults with their aged parents or young people flirting ... including some moments when I noticed that others were discreetly watching me. (I'm sure some were as curious about me as I was about them!)

The costs of public transportation were low; the memories I gained were priceless.