"It will, of course, fall mostly on deaf ears particularly those who have a friend or family member who meets the negative stereotype and immediately becomes emblematic of an entire nation."

Amen to that!

BTilke, Be careful with the gratuitous use of "amen." It will lead to the obvious conclusion that all American expats are bible thumpers...

"Schuler, my niece walks to school, plays with her friends outside for hours, walks to most of her activities, her school is fantastic, and her parents are well acquainted with the parents of her friends. So the life you have described has NOT been phased out, not where she lives and not in many other places as well. "

"It will, of course, fall mostly on deaf ears particularly those who have a friend or family member who meets the negative stereotype and immediately becomes emblematic of an entire nation.

"Amen to that!"

Now what am I supposed to believe?

"Nor does it mean that the average American has any contact with gun wielding people other than law enforcement personnel."

Oh yes they do.

The minute you arrive in the US (well, actually about two hours after in most cases, but let's not go into that), you're confronted by a gun-toting immigration official. Go into a Wal-Mart, and the security staff carry guns.

OK, that's what you meant by law-enforcing personnel. But if you come from a country where not even the police normally need weapons, it's a shock.

And don't convince yourself that "Gun crime is not present to any noticeable degree in most places in the US". I was once responsible for the running of a chain of shops in most of the world's affluent countries. Gun crime was a recurrent concern for every single US employee. Outside the US, only in Soweto and Northern Ireland at the height of the troubles was the obsession matched.

If you believe gun crime doesn't exist in most of the US - or is all about minorities killing their neighbours - talk to your local liquor store. Or ask your 7-Eleven franchisee what those height measurers are doing around his doorway.

Nope!

Travelled lots-everywhere in the world. Other places are very nice to visit but the west coast of Canada is about as good as it gets in every respect!

Gun -crime aside, people in other countries are not used to ordinary citizens
owning guns .
Once I opened a kitchen drawer in someone's house in Atlanta and saw their gun right there.
A friend ( a broker in the financial sector) attended a meeting in Florida and was absolutely astonished to see his
business partner carried a gun.
One understands it is legal in the US to own and purchase all kinds of fire arms, but for some of us it is still a bit unsettling to imagine living in that kind of environment.

"That evolution can be easily turned into "evil lution" means little more than when they twist a kids name in an attempt to make fun of them"


Bulling exists in all schools, but it would be very hard to find a child in Denmark who is bullied because his parent teaches evolution.
Maybe in Iran ?

"If you believe gun crime doesn't exist in most of the US - or is all about minorities killing their neighbours - talk to your local liquor store. Or ask your 7-Eleven franchisee what those height measurers are doing around his doorway."

I don't have to go back to the US for that! I can talk to the people at my local British Blockbusters, Threshers, and Co-Op--all were robbed AT GUNPOINT in the last two years. The local Co-op now closes an hour earlier than it used to because of crime problems and the store now has security staff.

Meanwhile, the staff at the grocery store and liquor store in the PA town where I grew up have NEVER had a gun crime problem.

"Go into a Wal-Mart, and the security staff carry guns."

I was at Wal-Mart last night and I did NOT see a gun on the security guard gun.

Seems to be lots of good and bad generalizations in this thread. My family came to the US in the early to mid-1800's. I have lived all of my life in the US except for a study aboad program in college. I have traveled to 25 countries and have been to 5 continents. I prefer to put the nationalistic BS aside. What I have found in my travels is the there is good and bad in each place I have visited. I can usually find beauty in most places and things that I like and things that annoy me. When I travel, I try to be respectful of the culture and understand the differences are what makes cultures interesting. There are many things I love about my country (beautiful and varied scenery, wonderful national parks and really we are a giving country when it comes down to it). There are also things I dislike (our current administration and their policies, our lack of focus on things I find important, insufficient but improving mass transit). Not to sound too idealistic -- but really -- you can make your happiness anywhere.

flanner...it's not just the security guards that carry guns in walmart, it's all the shoppers, the cashiers (cruelly made to work standing by their gun-toting managers), and even the pensioner who greets you at the door. the 16 year old kid who rounds up the shopping trolleys in the car park also carries a gun but because they work outside where it is more dangerous, they carry machine guns and RPGs. the guns sold in the toy aisles are not toys. never, ever go into an american walmart if you value your safety. europeans beware and be afraid!

flanner's right, america is very backward. in our top stores like boots we have ELECTRONIC height and weight machines that you can use for £0.50. and some will even give you your horoscope. the height measurers on the doors in american stores are free but they don't do weight and they are just marks on the door rather than our high-tech laser height measurers. how backward is that! and the ones in america aren't even in centimetres. as if!

It may very well be that gun-related crime in Moosecreek Idaho, or some other far flung rural outpost is relatively low, but if you look at the country wide statistics, there's absolutely no doubt that the US is way out in front of all the other wealthy, developed western nations as regards firearms related death and criminal activity.

I just do not know why people are bothering to argue this point - it's not opinion, it's fact. I think perhaps Willit is right, and the patriotism is so ingrained in US culture, that even when the figures show otherwise, people just won't accept it.

"it's not just the security guards that carry guns in walmart, it's all the shoppers, the cashiers (cruelly made to work standing by their gun-toting managers), and even the pensioner who greets you at the door. the 16 year old kid who rounds up the shopping trolleys in the car park also carries a gun but because they work outside where it is more dangerous, they carry machine guns and RPGs.""

No need to get upset. the people you mention may not have a gun in the store but I would not be too sure they don't have one at home, in the car or ( in some states) on their person.
If they don't have a gun or more efficient fire arm, how hard would it be to go to a local gun store and buy one?

i totally agree with you RM67, we europeans are not concerned enough about getting murdered in america. there is not enough discussion about the gun problem. some ignorant people talk about going to america just like they are going to greece or spain or some other safe country. it makes me sick to hear britons talk about going to florida for some 'sun' or to NYC to go 'shopping'. these stupid people need to wake up and realise that they are going to get murdered. i'm very concerned about this.

and i agree with you too danon. if they don't have a gun at work, then they probably have one in their car, and if they don't have when in the car then they have one at home, and if they don't have one at home they can buy one in the store and if the stores don't have guns, then they can fashion one out of a lead pipe. sick, sick place america is. you make such a good point. people need to be very concerned about this.

sick, sick place america is. you make such a good point. people need to be very concerned about this."


don't tell us people cannot buy guns ( in most states) with ease, and they don't do so.

It is your Costitutional right,
even the Supreme Court agrees.
This does not make America a sick , sick place - just different than many other countries.
What is so upsetting about that?

schuler said: "1/3 of my friends in the US have strong religious views and can be very judgemental as a result..."

The obvious question is, how many friends do you have in the US? :-)

<i>Bulling exists in all schools, but it would be very hard to find a child in Denmark who is bullied because his parent teaches evolution.
Maybe in Iran ?</i>

Did you read the rest of the post? Do you really think the kid is getting bullied because of his father's views on evolution? Please.

<i>we europeans are not concerned enough about getting murdered in america. there is not enough discussion about the gun problem. some ignorant people talk about going to america just like they are going to greece or spain or some other safe country. it makes me sick to hear britons talk about going to florida for some 'sun' or to NYC to go 'shopping'. these stupid people need to wake up and realise that they are going to get murdered. i'm very concerned about this.</i>

Thank you for sounding the alarm. Many would look at the statistics and see that they actually have an extremely low likelihood of ever being the victim of gun crime. But they are clearly delusional.

<i>don't tell us people cannot buy guns ( in most states) with ease, and they don't do so.</i>

And don't tell us that all of those people are buying the guns for ill intent. I grew up in a state with gun ownership rates well above the national average. Amazingly, there was a single murder detective for the entire state (I knew him personally - his job was pretty boring). But hey, make sure you watch your back next time you are in Vermont.

<i>I just do not know why people are bothering to argue this point - it's not opinion, it's fact. I think perhaps Willit is right, and the patriotism is so ingrained in US culture, that even when the figures show otherwise, people just won't accept it.</i>

It isn't patriotism. It is the ability to understand risk. And the risk of being the victim of gun crime is extremely low, even in the US.

walkinaround, The electronic machines mustn't work well because they always seem to show less than half the weight. And the marks on the doors tell you how many guns we keep. Nothing to do with heights. ;)

Schuler, Religious friends who are judgemental? I have many who are judgemental and not at all religious. I mean what's up with that?!

:)

&quot;I just do not know why people are bothering to argue this point - it's not opinion, it's fact. I think perhaps Willit is right, and the patriotism is so ingrained in US culture, that even when the figures show otherwise, people just won't accept it.&quot;

I'm not arguing about statistics. I think it's a bad thing that there are more gun related deaths in the US than in other countries. A very bad thing indeed. I think we should do something about it.

But the fact remains that in the day to day experience of most people in the US, guns are not a factor. Clearly guns are a much greater presence in the minds of people reading the headlines and the statistics from abroad than they are in the minds and lives of most Americans.

One death however is one too many. And many people in the US believe that and are in favor of much stricter gun control than exists in most states. The US gun lobby would have me believe that I am unpatriotic for having that opinion. RM67 would have me believe that I am patriotic just for stating the facts of my experience. What on earth does this have to do with patriotism?

&quot;And don't tell us that all of those people are buying the guns for ill intent.&quot;

It is the ease of owning a gun in the US ( how and when people use it is their choice - no one knows their intent) that is different than in other countries.

For most American it is not an issue - they grew up in that environment , more so - majority supports it.
People from other countries often find it a bit scary ( rightly or wrongly) .
Why is that so hard to understand?

<i>People from other countries often find it a bit scary ( rightly or wrongly) .
Why is that so hard to understand?</i>

Because it is irrational. The laws of probability are not dependent upon nationality. Your risk is still so low that it should not be much of a concern for most people, regardless of where you are from.

I liken it to the posts you see from Americans about pickpockets and scam artists in Europe, which are equally silly.

yes, it may be irrational - most fears are.
The question was &quot; would you move to the US..&quot;;I am only suggesting that the ease of gun ownership in America would deter some people from other countries.
I have visited the US number of time ( only the big cities and Vermont!), and if could , would move to Manhattan in a &quot; New York minute&quot;

re: guns. I won't attempt to sort the irony from the earnest, because I can't quite tell which is which.

I live in a US metropolitan area, and have friends in suburban and rural areas. I can go for years at a time without seeing or hearing about anyone with a gun. except maybe in a locked rack at the home of my brother who hunts deer, turkey, and pheasant. I can't remember the last time I saw a handgun in person, except in the holster of a lawman.

Just don't go to the places where the kids shoot eachother, and let the paramedics clean up after removing the bodies. :D (blood is so sticky on concrete)

Anyway, that would be my stategy.

In Boston last time I was there, 5 kids where killed in just one night.

My news sources show some of Europe's capitals turning pretty violent.

Crime in Paris:

&quot;Publishing the latest crime statistics for the French capital, the National Crime Observatory reported more than 1,500 incidents of violent assault on and around the thoroughfare - a 32% rise on the previous year’s figure.

Reported thefts are up by 93% and incidents of threatening behaviour have risen by 48% - the biggest increase for any area in the city.

“The atmosphere is no longer good-natured, like it once was,” says senior policeman Guy Parent, head of the Paris antiprostitution brigade. He warns that what was once the world’s most famously elegant avenue is becoming a no-go zone, known instead for violent crime, prostitution and racketeering.&quot;


London and other Brit cities are seeing knives become the weapon of choice:

&quot;The true state of violent Britain was exposed yesterday in the Government’s own figures, which revealed there is a knife attack every four minutes...

There were nearly 130,000 attacks involving a blade last year yet that does not include offences committed by younger teenagers...

&quot;The fact that violent crime has risen by 80 per cent under Labour and the scale of knife crime on our streets, officially recorded for the first time, is a shocking indictment of Labour’s failure to tackle crime and its causes.&quot;

Try shooting someone with a knife.

Russ, the perception is that violent crime in the UK is on the increase, but it is not a perception reflected in the crime figures.

What has come to fore in the last year is fatal knife attacks on young men. There is a problem with people carrying knives.

Guns are a rarity in the UK - handguns are banned, Olympic shooters have to go and train overseas. To quote a favourite: &quot;only criminals have guns&quot;.

The stark statistics show that more people die from gunshots in an average day in the US, than in the average year in the UK. Even accounting for population sizes, the rate is between 50 and 100x greater.

I fully understand that my chances of being killed as an ordinary person, living in an ordinary town in the US are extremely remote.

Living conditions in Australia seem comparable to those in the USA, but working conditions seem better (a legislated minimum wage and four weeks paid holidays). Medical treatment seems more generally affordable, and, via the public hospital system, possibly free, albeit with too-long waiting lists. I also prefer the system of government, which places less emphasis on personalities, but that may be due to familiarity. The country also seems to have more resources than it can use, so should remain relatively prosperous in the foreseeable future. The society is law-abiding, multi-cultural and generally friendly, so I think I'll stay here rather than move to the US.

I think I phrased a little of my comments poorly - I didn't mean that I believe there is a large-scale ban on teaching evolution, but it has happened. also I believe that creationism is taught in many school science classes. Undefencible in my opinion.

also, flanner, I don't think that a generation of ignorant Americans will rise up to rule the world, because, actually, America doesn't rule the world. That's a perfect example of the sort of attitude I meant by 'word view' that would put me off moving to the US.

Actually we kind of do rule the world. If we wanted it tomorrow it would be ours. It's not being ignorant, it's just the truth.

<i>In Boston last time I was there, 5 kids where killed in just one night.</i>

And when was this, exactly? We know that it was not in 2008:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas...ers_in_boston/

Nor was it 2007:

http://internet128.com/index.php/200...n-boston-2007/

Nor 2006:

http://www.universalhub.com/crime/murder2006.html

Perhaps it was before then? Regardless, that is surely some sort of amazing coincidence that you managed to be in Boston on a night that saw somewhere between 5 and 10% of the murders for the year. And all kids, too. Wow. That surely is something.

And even if we assume that this amazing coincidence is true, then I have to ask if the murders were unrelated? Were they all part of the same family? Were they killed by relatives or other people known to them? If so, then does this inform the average person's understanding of their risk of being randomly murdered?

If, instead of trying to cloud the issue by pointing to particularly gruesome events (that may or may not have occurred), we look at the murders objectively, we see that most were not random, that many involved family or acquaintances, and that most were committed in areas far removed from anywhere a tourist or even a local resident will ever set foot in. The data does not support a fear of being randomly murdered in the US, guns or no guns.

casey....


good grief. You've made my point wonderfully, thank you.

You may not agree with the way I said it but you must admit it is the truth. Do you disagree?

<i>I didn't mean that I believe there is a large-scale ban on teaching evolution, but it has happened.</i>

Not since 1968. Epperson v Arkansas has basically made it impossible to ban the teaching of evolution. It has certainly banned the teaching of creationism at the expense of evolution.

<i>also I believe that creationism is taught in many school science classes.</i>

You can believe it, but it doesn't make it true. The incidence is certainly quite low. Moreover, Edwards v Aguillard restricted the teaching of &quot;creation science&quot; and stated:

&quot;teaching a variety of scientific theories about the origins of humankind to school children might be validly done with the clear secular intent of enhancing the effectiveness of science instruction.&quot;

To date, virtually all attempts to force creationism to be taught have failed the &quot;secular intent&quot; test. So, can we finally put this myth about creationism being commonly taught to rest? Please?

Casey - I think you're deluding yourself. How would you &quot;Rule the world&quot;?

Do it in little portions - how are you going to &quot;Rule Russia&quot; or &quot;Rule China&quot;?

Not criticism, just realism.

I read about the posters who state crime, car-dependency and religious bigotry as reasons why they would never live in the USA and I have to joyfully say....GOOD RIDDANCE! :-D Anybody that speaks in such generalities needs to stay away as you definitely you will not be bringing anything to this country, but ignorance. OUR LOSS IS WELCOME!!

I have live in Europe, the Caribbean, and the USA. There is no doubt whatsover where you will find some of the best places to live in this planet....the USA!! Not a doubt.

Casey, do you seriously think that the US does currently 'sorta' rule the world? In what way? No-one would deny that the US is a major power, but there are other major powers.

Together, China and India have over 1/3rd of the world's population. How much influence do you think the US really has over those countries?

Next add in the rest of the world 6billion plus population - does the US 'rule' them?

You think the US could take control of the entire world tomorrow? All 194 (plus a few ones in dispute over existence) of them? Against the will of all those 6billions? Against the might of 194 militaries? How are you going to invade everywhere at once? And if you are thinking of gaining economic control - again, the US is very powerful, but not as powerful as the rest of the world put together. Not even as powerful as just China and India and the Middle East taking the opposing side to you. Deluded isn't the word for it. The only way the US could 'rule the world' would be by consent of the rest of the planet, and frankly, that aint gonna happen!

I meant 194 countries!

Nona, if Casey has made your point, you have made mine: that no matter how many well-reasoned, balanced presentations there are of the several sides of an issue, there are those who hear only the most strident voices or the most simplistic viewpoints and then extrapolate that they are representative of the whole.