For anyone interested, good health coverage - but medical only - not dental or optical - in the NYC area is about $1300 per month for one person. That gets you

Essentially free hospitalization

$10 for visits for in-system MDs

20% of visit cost for out of system MDs (many MDs in NYC don;t take insurance)

Prescriptions for $5 (generic), $10 (lower priced branded) and $20 (higher priced branded - but some VERY expensive drugs aren;t covered unless you MD can substantiate you can;t take one of the on-formulary drugs)

Tests approved in advance (these are routinely approved) such as CT scans or MRIs are $10 or $20 (versus the $800 plus cost of the test)

Normal tests (blood and urinalysis part of regular physical, EKG, mammogram etc) are paid without prior approval - at $10

Plus you pay the first $1000 out of pockets yourself.

Your total in-network cost is limited to $2500 for the year.

FYI - a visit to a specialist in Manhattan is about $300 and up, to a family doctor about $200.

If you're healthy this is a lot of money.

If you have a problem (I needed surgery with a 5 day hospital stay a couple of years ago) the cost for hospital, MDs, tests etc would have been over $180,000.

After 20 years or so in the north of England, Bill Bryson moved back to the US with his English wife and children. To Hanover, NH, if I remember correctly. They insisted on walking into town as opposed to driving, to the surprise of their neighbors. However, his wife found life easier in the US than in England.

Disclaimer: this is from my faint memory of the book he wrote on the subject. Any errors are all mine.

Hi CW,

>The problem for us Brits is we tend to think of America as a bit of Europe that talks funny and has strange shoes. It's not. It's a very alien place indeed.<

Likewise, most folks in the US think that the UK is like the US, with a funny accent. "It's not. It's a very alien place indeed".
...............................
Hi D,

>Good health coverage
in US must cost a mint.

If you're not in a group, about $24k pa for a family plan as good as one could get in France, the Netherlands or Denmark under the national insurance.

>I think the intolerance (in small towns) would be more towards people who were not religious.<

Here in my small town (pop 3200) almost everyone belongs to a church and doesn't care if you don't.

We also don't ask what people do in the privacy of their bedrooms.

OTOH, if you don't follow UGA football, you are talked about.
..............................
Hi J,

>She and I were out yesterday for a picnic ....<

Before you use that word again, check
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35143793
:)

((I))

"Then you need to meet more Americans. When I lived in Oklahoma, there was intense pride in the Native American heritage and it was the focus of much of my primary school history....

sorry , never been to Oklahoma...
One can only meet so many people out of 300 million...

The impression one gets about religion in America is that any a hint of not being religious " enough"
( ie Christian , a few token Jews), would be the end of any politician or high ranking Army officer.
We were in Italy during the municipal elections - don't remember seeing politicians on TV competing to show who is a "better" Christian or carrying their Bibles.

"For anyone interested, good health coverage - but medical only - not dental or optical - in the NYC area is about $1300 per month for one person. "
If you're not in a group, about $24k pa for a family plan as good as one could get in France, the Netherlands or Denmark under the national insurance."


someone must be wrong here!

If I could move for a couple of years with a decent job, then yes - but I would not do so with the intention of making it permanent.

As I have never been to the US, my reasons are obviously all based on stereotypes and perceptions.

I feel I am far too left wing to fit into American society. Many of the views I read on Fodor's stun me with how Extremely right wing I perceive them to be.

My politics border on Socialist - I dislike the extreme corporate power and Ultra capitalism that characterise the US. Gun laws, overt patriotism and lack of healthcare for all would all be offputting.

I am Agnostic - I feel that this may be a problem in such a religious country. I find it difficult to understand how a nation that produces so much of the world's good science can have such a high proportion of creationists (i.e. fundamentalists who believe the literal truth of the bible and don't agree with any form of evolution.)

I am a great follower of sports, none of which are played in the US. I can relate to Australian's love of cricket and the Kiwis obsession with Rugby, but mainstream US sports are a mystery to me.

I'd miss decent national newspapers, pubs and real ale, Monday morning discussions on "match of the day", Test match special, Radio 4, English Heritage and the National Trust.

If I sound "anti American", It is not intended - there is much I admire in America (Constitution, freedom of speech, due legal process etc) There are many parts of the US that I would like to visit - but as a person I feel I would find the US far more foreign than e.g Australia.

"The U.S. is the melting pot of the world..."

More of a mixed salad I would say.

Well, I remain a fan of many things American, but to claim it as THE melting pot of the world seems going a bit too far.

The rate of legal immigration to the USA is no longer anywhere near what it once was. I would imagine there are any number of countries that can claim an ethnic mix equal to the USA nowadays.

<i>if you don't follow UGA football</i>

There are two types of people in this world, those that care about SEC football and communists. :)

<i>I'd miss decent national newspapers</i>

But you live in the UK? I have to say that none of the UK papers, save the FT really impress me at all. Certainly no better than the NY Times or the Washington Post, which are as national as The Guardian or The Independent. And I read the press pretty widely.

<i>pubs and real ale</i>

Move to Boston. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a pub. Most have a far wider selection of real ale than the lately, lager-mad UK pub scene.

<i>I am Agnostic - I feel that this may be a problem in such a religious country.</i>

I think you worry too much. The vast majority of Americans view religion as a private matter. Being an agnostic is not an issue that I have ever seen, and I know plenty of Agnostics.

<i>The impression one gets about religion in America is that any a hint of not being religious &quot; enough&quot;
( ie Christian , a few token Jews), would be the end of any politician or high ranking Army officer.</i>

But there are litmus tests for politicians of any country. For many years, it seemed you couldn't be a UK politician without being skeptical of the EU. It would seem to be difficult to be a French politician without railing against US dominance and calling for a French counter-weight. The point is that you shouldn't confuse the message of politicians (which appeals to jingoistic cliches in every country) with the reality of what you are likely to encounter during your normal day. And the average American would find it rude to inquire about your religion, much less denigrate you for it.

We briefly considered moving there - if we could figure out the visa situation - but the horribly short annual leave regulations decided it for us. No way could we survive with 2 weeks leave a year, that is no way to live.

America is a great place to visit on holidays, have been there many times, but happy with where we live now (5 weeks leave plus public holidays).

Kay

<i> No way could we survive with 2 weeks leave a year, that is no way to live.</i>

This depends upon the company. My company starts at 3 weeks + 2 personal days, and you get an additional day each of the first 5 years. Quite quickly, you are at 22 days of vacation.

Plus, you are eligible, from day 1, to &quot;buy&quot; a week of vacation, whereby, you place 1/52 of your salary into an account. So, even a new employee is eligible for 20 days leave + 2 personal days, and 2 or 3 more national holidays than we provide for our French, German, British, or Danish colleagues.

&quot;the NY Times or the Washington Post, which are as national as The Guardian or The Independent.&quot;

I didn't know these - I presumed that with the size of the US , the papers would be more regional - as I said, my views are based purely on perceptions and stereotypes as I have never been to the US.

Correction , didn't know THIS.

<i>I presumed that with the size of the US , the papers would be more regional</i>

They do have a larger regional section, but the average NY Times or Washington Post probably has twice the content of the average UK daily. There is plenty of coverage there. Also, the NY Times, in particular has been aggressive in marketing itself nationally, and it also owns the Boston Globe, for instance, leveraging its national and international desks.

&quot;The vast majority of Americans view religion as a private matter.&quot;


&quot;he point is that you shouldn't confuse the message of politicians (which appeals to jingoistic cliches in every country) with the reality of what you are likely to encounter during your normal day.

If religion is seen as a private matter by the majority of Americans, how can a religiosity of politicians (elected by THE MAJORITY of Americans to lead the country) be a litmus test for the jingoistic crowd only ?

Flanneruk...I mean &quot;really&quot;...how over the top I find your comment. As far as &quot;fairskinned&quot; people not hardly being able to go outside without getting skin cancer here... well...really...There IS sun screen and there are hats. Plus, we are populated with not only &quot;fairskinned&quot; people.
And Southern California isn't the only sunny/hot place, in the world, that fairskinned people live.
I have plenty of fairskinned Australian friends who've been living there for generations. And I'll tell you that when I was in South Australia, in December, some years ago, it was a heck of a lot hotter than here in L.A. That's the only place I've ever been where I ended up with a skin problem that took a couple of months before my skin returned back to its norm...and I'm Afro-American and am one who's never worried about my skin. Happy Travels!

I have not read this entire thread, but as a dual national holding a passport of the 'sacred' country (and which I hope to hold on to, since I have nothing against it), I cannot think of a reason that would make me want to live there again.

I am lucky enough to have 10 weeks vacation, and I don't think that any American job other than teaching would provide me with that. I earn enough money for my needs and do not see any reason to enter a system where I could double or triple my wages. And most important, even though I know that I could suddenly lose all that I have, I am very happy to live in a country with a social network that would provide housing and health care and minimum resources automatically if necessary.

And all of this is totally separate from the cultural quality of life, the normal food that is eaten, the constitutional values of the country where I live, the accessibility of other interesting neighboring countries, or just the rich variety of my neighbors. I would have great difficulty replicating all this in the U.S. (a country that I very much enjoy visiting)

<i>If religion is seen as a private matter by the majority of Americans, how can a religiosity of politicians (elected by THE MAJORITY of Americans to lead the country) be a litmus test for the jingoistic crowd only ?</i>

But, as long as the majority does not care, why annoy the minority that does? There are no votes to be had by being the anti-Religion candidate, so why go out of your way to be that person? It is much easier to just check the box.

And don't kid yourself about whether European populations don't care. My gosh, the whole Prince Charles divorce thing was suffused with questions about religion, questions completely separate from morality. Or the church tax in Denmark, to support a religion that virtually nobody cares about. Yet, you don't hear politicians promising its repeal. It is culture and habit and tradition that makes it political.

Much as I enjoy visiting the US (over 20 trips for business and pleasure to date), I couldn't really envisage living over there if I had to earn a living. Some of my most important priorities in life are good health and plenty of free time to travel. Here in the UK I get up to 42 days PAID days off a year together with national health cover that's (virtually) free at the point of need. Even though in my professional field I could earn considerably more in the US, I just think the sacrifices I would have to make are too high. Each to his own I guess...

What an interesting thread. I was unaware of the stereotypes foreign countries had of the USA and seeing how wrong they are makes it clear to me how wrong American stereotypes of European countries must be.
violence: Just because our constitution gives us the right to bear arms doesn't mean we all do. In fact I would venture to say that most of us don't.
quality of life: to be sure we may not all receive 1-2 months vacation, but most of us receive more than 2 weeks. Straight out of college I had 3 weeks, and I know many who started with 4. And living in Colorado, where we average 320 days of sunshine a year, I think I average 1-2 minor sunburns a year.
religion: contrary to our political figures, we're a very religiously tolerant country, of course every country has their own religious nutcases, but overall it is considered incredibly rude to criticize another's religious beliefs.

I can understand not wanting to live in the US. However, I would like to point out that the US is a very varied country. While you wouldn't let your kids play outside alone in some places, in others it's the norm.

Yes you need cars in many parts of the US, but in many of the larger cities, you do not. I know people in NYC who have never been behind the wheel of a car.

Some places have a great deal of gun violence and others rarely see a gun. I live in an exburb of NYC and we have a very low crime rate.

And yes, in some parts of the country religion is a very important part of life and there are very few different religions. Then there are other parts of the country where religion is a much smaller role in people's daily lives. And where there is a great deal of variety and acceptance of other religions.

All these differences are why the US sometimes seems at odds with itself, but it's also what makes it a facsinating place.

I am in the midst of getting a job which will allow me to work all over the world. Not because I don't think the US is a great place, but because I want to experience life in other cultures. One doesn't have to preclude the other.

This is an interesting thread! As a US citizen living in the UK I have a couple of comments.

It seems to me that most of the statements made about the US, like those regarding health care and vacation time, are based on the assumed average. But, as with an any average, some are above and some are below.

In the states we had excellent healthcare. We didn't pay a penny out of pocket -- for anything. I realize that may be unusual, but it isn't impossible. We also didn't need referrals to see specialists. When my son was born he had an overly tight muscle in his neck so we called a baby physical therapist and he saw us the next day.

Three years later, working for the same company, living in the UK, my son may need to see another specialist -- the waiting list is 20 weeks long.

I love the idea of national healthcare but from what I can tell (and from what our British friends and colleagues have told us) we're kidding ourselves if we don't see the flaws in this system.

&gt;religious nutcases
But anytime you turn on the TV or radio anywhere in the US, those nutcases are on air.
And this &quot;Glen Beck&quot; guy which is everywhere too with his nutcase view of the world.
Doesn't all this influence people?

&lt;&lt; My company starts at 3 weeks + 2 personal days, and you get an additional day each of the first 5 years. Quite quickly, you are at 22 days of vacation.&gt;&gt;

You are very fortunate and I believe your company's vacation policy is hardly typical. There have been plenty of polls and comparisons of paid leave time that show that U.S. workers have far less time off than workers in other developed countries, so this is a valid point for Canadians and Europeans if considering moving here to work.

I've worked for several companies and have never started with three weeks vacation. In fact, my last job in Florida employees had to work 12 months to get one week (five days) and would get two weeks after two years and three weeks after FIVE years. I had interviewed at other companies and they had the same policy -- a full twelve months to get five days vacation. We were allowed six sick days per year and no personal leave days.

And the maternity leave polices are pathetic at most companies -- six weeks max compared to the generous polices of Canada and European countries.

People like Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly and his protege Stephen Colbert (pronounced Colbear) are on TV and radio because they're so controversial, not because the majority of the country believes what they do. Sure some people may agree with some of what they say, but not all and certainly not the majority of America.
In reality, how many people tune in to listen to these folks on a daily basis is a fraction of a percent of the general population.

<i>Doesn't all this influence people?</i>

Not really. Certainly not anymore than the biases present in any media outlet influence people. And good luck finding any media outlet without one bias or another. I think most people tend to listen to or read the opinions of those that they agree with. Much like an old-school Tory won't read the Guardian, no lefty will be tuning into Rush Limbaugh.

A lot of preaching to the choir, but it doesn't really amount to anything.

My apologies, I meant to say a small fraction of the population listen to these people.

<i>You are very fortunate and I believe your company's vacation policy is hardly typical.</i>

My old company started you at 4 weeks, and I was at 5 when I left after 2 years. And most of my friends get similar vacation allowances.

These things are often up for negotiation. I started at a company that normally only gave 2 weeks to start, and simply asked that I start at 3 weeks, with a clear and short path to 4 weeks. If you value time off, and are wanted, then you can negotiate it. No need for government-mandated minimums when you can just establish them yourself.

What is sad about this thread and so many on Fodors is the judgmental and distorted attitudes that comes through. Here are my thoughts on some of the negative comments made about living in the US.

1) religion...not that important to most people I know.
2) quality of life...means different things to different people.IMHO I have a better quality of life than my relatives who live in Europe.
3)gun crime...not a serious problem in my part of the US
4) life style...so varied that it is impossible to say what the American lifestyle is.
5) vacation time...also varies a great deal...my father always had a month off.
6) weather...again very extremely varied.
7) Health care....I have always had access to fast, excellent healthcare.

I love to travel and am happy where I live, but obviously that doesn't mean that I want everyone to feel the same. Again what a sad thread this is!

Fascinating thread. I have learned more about people all over the world and how they think about things in discussions like this one than I ever thought I would.

Meanwhile, for those Europeans who said they liked Cape Cod, how about busting stereotypes one house exchange at a time?

the bizarre thing is that we in britain love to go on and on about the religious fundamentalism in america... but we always choose to ignore the fact that we have a very significant population segment that is far more fundamentalist. but it's only pc to ridicule the CHRISTIAN fundamentalists. if america has her 'jesusland' we certainly do have our 'muhammadland'. just part of the bizarre perspectives we see here.

&gt;religious nutcases
&gt;&gt;But anytime you turn on the TV or radio anywhere in the US, those nutcases are on air.
And this &quot;Glen Beck&quot; guy which is everywhere too with his nutcase view of the world.
Doesn't all this influence people?&lt;&lt;

No one forces anyone else to watch or listen to people with whom they disagree.

Lee Ann

Good point, walkinaround. Very good point.

&quot;if america has her 'jesusland' we certainly do have our 'muhammadland'. just part of the bizarre perspectives we see here.&quot;


Depends where you live.

Never saw a black person in the flesh until I went to &quot;big school&quot;

Ask CW, Simon. More of a house than a person...bleeding enormous!

&gt;No one forces anyone else to watch or listen
Yet millions watch TV and listen to the radio. Good to hear people are resistant to what is broadcast!

&lt;&lt;They do have a larger regional section, but the average NY Times or Washington Post probably has twice the content of the average UK daily.&gt;&gt;

I really enjoy reading the Sunday papers, but on my last trip to New York, I sat down to read the Sunday NY Times and to me, while it had a thump factor, i.e extremely large, the content was predominantly made up of adverts.

I found very little reading. To give an example, the travel section totalled 4 pages (this may not be typical) but compare this with the Sunday Times in the UK, to me there is no comparison.

Geordie

Religion: I was raised Jehovah Witness, went to a Baptist church in high school with my best friend, almost became Morman my freshman year in college, then was baptized as a Catholic at 20. My mother is Lutheran, my father is debating whether or not he believes in God at all, my brother belongs to some strain of a Christian following and my sister married a Catholic but has chosen not to baptize her son. This is America. People have options. And most people prefer not to discuss religion or politics unless we've been drinking ale at the local pub.

Travel/Time Off: I get as much time off as I need to travel wherever and whenever I please. My DH gets 6 weeks off every year, and if he chooses not to use it, it rolls over into the following year. And he's not self-employed, nor does he have a college degree. He makes a decent amount of money, of which, we actually spend on travel. My complaint as an American would be not having enough money to buy a vacation home. I would never complain about not having enough time to spend there. And my cousins in Germany would argue the same thing. One cousin in particular is an Attorney near Frankfurt and would die to have a home with a yard! But he gets 3 weeks off for holiday every year. Hmmmmmmmm....

Healthcare: It definitely has disadvantages, but I am fortunate as are many in the U.S. Our healthcare is offered through DH's occupation and we pay a minimal fee (comes out of his gross so it does not affect the bank account) for a large family. We love our medical group. My children see our doctor the same day if needed and I never pay a well child care co-payment, nor do I have to come up with 20% of our hospital stay. We are located in a city that has top-notch hospitals and care. I worry more about my child actually being injured than the care he/she will receive... A bigger fear is being struck by a tourist who is watching the waves crash on the coastline than paying attention to where or how they are driving.

Weather: I'm fair skinned, blonde hair and blue eyes but my children are olive skinned with brown hair. I admit I get rosey cheeks after wakeboarding all day, but the children do not - they tan. We see more sun than rain, but it's not 100 degrees everyday. And we definitely don't have 55% humidity. We have pleasant evenings with a cool breeze. We eat a lot of fruit and vegetables that we grow in our yard. We ride bikes. We walk our dogs. Our climate is very good and I wouldn't trade it for anything. We actually see all 4 seasons each year. We have some of the best routes for fall drives, of which you can leave the top down on the convertible because it's not going to rain! We do wish for more rain, but what country doesn't? Last time we ventured into Germany for some snow in late December, there was none. The Alps were dry. Hmmmmm.....

Politics: We attend mass a few times each month, but never do we base our decisions at the voting poll on whether or not Mr. or Mrs. attends, nor what they wore to church that morning. Most educated Christians would see right through their rants on television anyways. “Do not judge, or you too will be judged” (Matthew 7:1). Most politicians are hypocrites. We take their television interviews and debates with &quot;a grain of salt&quot; (a U.S. cliche). It means that 1. Understand that something being said is not to be taken seriously.
2. To know that what is being said may have a very strong bias. Religion aside, we had a bigger dilema in California... Over half of California voted for Arnold for Calif. State Governor because he was the &quot;Terminator&quot;... WTH? You've got to be joking, right? Sadly, no. Unfortunately not all Americans are alike. Some do base their votes on public appearance and religious choices. Why else would Clinton target young America and join hands with Mtv? It makes for good television and sells magazines. It also gets votes. That's America... Back to Religion and Football (not soccer) are very important to the folks in the southeast - from birth through high school and beyond, but for those of us out here in California... we worry more about life after the elections... what will this person provide in regards to the economy, global warming, gay rights, animal rights, abortion, education and the military? The list could go on and on and on...

This entire thread has saddened me. I'm raising my American children with an awareness of the world so that they do not base their judgements and decisions on their own culture... By the time they become adults, they will be able to live anywhere. The more they engage in other cultures, the broader perspective they have. My only hope is that they do not base their perception on other countries by what they saw on t.v., but more importantly, what they experienced first hand.

&quot;People like Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly and his protege Stephen Colbert (pronounced Colbear) are on TV and radio because they're so controversial, not because the majority of the country believes what they do&quot;

PLEASE do not include Stephen Colbert in this list. He is not a &quot;protege&quot; of Bill O'Reilly. He is a satirist of Bill O'Reilly and his ilk. Stephen Colbert mocks those you mentioned, he does not follow them.

I find all of this rather interesting because except for the health insurance issue I find that almost none of these things apply to my life in NYC. We have four seasons of weather, we have culture (it might not be old but almost every museum has a free night or suggested donation) and despite most of my foreign friends thinking every day is an episode of law and order in 12 years I've never been mugged or a victim of any violence. In fact as for religious tolerance I find that I am more aware of other religions and their holidays than friends living around the globe.
Though I must add that since my boyfriend moved here from Milan in May (he absolutely loves it and has made tons of pro and con lists and I'm sure he'd have things to add, example: he loves how people actually line up and wait their turn for the crosstown bus, it fascinates him!)I have been thinking about where else to move :)
Also, a side note, Colbert isn't a protege of O'Reilly it's a spoof or more correctly a character he plays

Sorry lola! Was typing as you posted!