No. I love visiting Europe but no I could not live there. I live in paradise now and I couldn't give it up.

My Dh and I have discussed this a few times and we are both in agreement that it would be a great thing to do for a few months. However, at this stage I would not leave my two dogs!!! Not a problem leaving the old folks, the son, the house but the two schnauzers - never!!!! I would't feel comfortable leaving them with relatives, no-one else could possibly spoil them the way I do!! As a volunteer at a pet rescue I get so fed up seeing all these family pets dumped after years of faithful service because they don't suit the owner's lifestyle anymore - I couldn't and wouldn't contemplate doing the same thing for purely selfish reasons.

We will have to satisfy the Europe urge by going on decent length holidays. We both have EU passports so it would be easy for us to go and live there but for the time being.....

Schnauzer

Take them with you.
Air France is the best for taking a pet.

schnauzer - out of curiosity, why do you think you would have to leave your dogs behind? I've known Americans who moved to Europe and took their dogs with them. Of course I guess the rules may vary by country...

I took my two aged cats to Italy.

They think bidets are the most fascinating objects they have ever encountered.

I can't imagine a dog not loving Europe. They are treated like royalty! They go to all the best restaurants (and in France, they sometimes get treated better than the customers!)

"For those who want an apartment on Ile St. Louis or a farmhouse in Tuscany...imagine schlepping groceries through the tourists up to your flat?"

Ummmm, I do this all the time. It's often pleasant to talk to the tourists. They're in a good mood and tell me how envious they are I live there all the time.

I wouldn't let that stop you.

I live 2 minutes from not just groceries, but some of the best groceries in the world. I don't drive there, but I don't need to. And exercise is good for me.

Do I ever wish I was back in the states circling a parking lot, or waiting in line behind somebody with an overflowing grocery cart?

No.

"How will you cope if/when one of you dies or suffers from a stroke or some other debilitating illness? How will you feel in an old people's home where you must speak your second language, and where you cannot share youthful memories with your fellow inmates?"

The first time I went to Italy, in my 40's, I didn't realize I had pneumonia when I left the states and ended up in an Italian hospital for 15 days, gravely ill.

I was not only cured of pneumonia, I was cured of my illusion that life is risk-free until you are old, and the illusion that, even when one is healthy, one should live in dire fear of "What will happen when I'm old?!?!?!?"

Two other things I learned when I was gravely ill with pneumonia were

a) I didn't want to socialize

and

b) I hoped the people I loved had better things to do than hang around hospitals. In fact, the worst part about being sick was seeing other people worry and look sad. I was relieved when visitors hours were over and they hurried off to fantastic dinners at Bolognese restaurants and let me sleep. If you're sick in Italy and your kids have to come watch over, they'll have a better time than in most places in the US..

I don't know what will happen when I'm old. Period. Maybe I'll be like Gore Vidal. Maybe I'll trip on a Ligurian staircase and die. Maybe I won't live to be old.

If I lived my life in fear of the kinds of things posted above -- well, I don't. So I don't know what it's like.

Yep, got Aldi, Lidl, Tengelman, 2xREWE, Plus, Norma, cheese store, 3xfruits and veg., flowers, 3x bakeries, 3x butcher, library, 2x bio food store, 3x drinks, MC Donalds, Subways, 3 italian restauarants, 2 greek, 2 bavarian, 2 beer gardens..., and 2 book stores

All within 5 minutes walking distance.
You do not buy groceries for more than "instant" consumption.

And a subway station below and the post office next to my flat. :-)

As long as I know I can always go home to NYC, I would move to Europe. Probably a year or so in each European country, so not a permanent move per se.

Just til the novelty wears off. ;)

If those drivers in NYC would stop honking, that could be the place.

I read that Italy is one of the countries which offer a retirement visa, if you can demonstrate a certain level of monthly income.

But would that mean you would pay a tax on any retirement income you earn from a US retirement plan?

That would mean paying taxes twice, not to mention the horrible exchange rate currently.

Add the costs of health care and ...

Surprised that Liguria is so affordable. Thought Portofino was expensive. But maybe in comparison to Manhattan, a lot of places look affordable.

Olive oil cheap? Well maybe in tourist areas it's just expensive but I've seen liter bottles going for 20 Euros or more.

I would never want to live entirely in Europe. I spend 6 months living in Paris and 6 months living in Ohio. I love this arrangement. From Paris you can easily travel throughout all of Europe due to the great travel hub that is Paris.

Be prepared for a long drawn out ordeal to get your residency card (carte de sejour). With FBI check etc it took me about 9 months and then you must re-new it every year until you have lived in France 5 years. After that you only renew every 10 years; if you are still alive at that point. You cannot get French citizenship except under very special circumstances (parents were French etc) but a carte de sejour gives you all the rights you need anyway. You can't vote of course.

For now and the foreseeable future the weak $ is a serious serious problem for Americans living here and the cost of health insurance is a big item unless of course you are rich.

Good luck,
Larry J

Unfortunately we live in Australia which is at best at 24 hour flight. There is also a stop over on the way. The quarantine rules are very strict here in Australia and it would mean lots of injections (ok we can do that) but also at least five - 9 weeks in quarantine when we return depending on where we have been. At least it has improved from the 9months it used to be. Also one dog is 9 already and the other is a nervous wreck at the best of times, she would not be able to cope with a flight, a trip to the local shops sends her in a spin. If we went for a couple of years then the older dog would probably be too old to handle such a long return journey.

Thanks for the suggestion anyway!! I have thought about it but because of the reasons above dismissed it.
Schnauzer

Jamikins, what was it like leaving Canada and your family behind? We want to do the same - move to Scotland, Wales or Croatia (our next trips are to look at properties and such). We are in our late 30s and could retire to Europe at the age of 45. My husband is a CA (and partner) so I know what you mean about saving! I was brought up to do the same.

When did you move?

In a New York Minute, I'd be there so quickly your haggis would be on fire. Unfortunately, my DH adamantly against the idea :(

In a heartbeat. Assuming we have the finances and health care coverage, I'd whisk my family to Europe without a second thought. I have two kids who are travelers (North American only, thus far) and I would give anything to have them immersed in a foreign life. I dream about it often and hope we can do it someday.

Move to Europe? No way. Move to New Zealand? Yes -- if they would have us. They are quite choosy.

Yes...New Zealand is fabulous. I visit Kiwi friends there. It's not such a long flight from L.A. Smiles. Happy Travels!

LarryJ, you are living my ideal - but my fiancee (a Brit until he takes U.S. citizenship soon) came to California for me (hmmmm - yes, I guess I buy that) and reminds me that I always said the SF Bay area (north bay) was as close to heaven as anyone could expect. But that's before I saw Paris (spent six weeks there so far); now, I could easily spend half my time there and half at home.

Well, I moved to France, to the Perigord (Dordogne) 14 years ago from Canada, and have never had a regret.

The things we were lucky to have:
both of us fell in love with the area and wanted the same thing. We were both fed up with our corporate jobs, which didn't hurt. We've since met many people who don't agree, and who usually end up going back.

Both of us managed to have British, therefore European, passports. I was born in London, husband's father born in England. Made staying here somewhat easier.

The other lucky thing was that i agreed to teach English in the local school system, really just as a way to help our village school. Turns out I became a regular employee with health insurance rights. I stopped 6 or 7 years ago, and we had a bit of a scare late last year when the rules did change, and it looked like we might be in the group left out of the health insurance plan. However, all is now well and we are covered by France's excellent system.

Well, I moved to France, to the Perigord (Dordogne) 14 years ago from Canada, and have never had a regret.

The things we were lucky to have:
both of us fell in love with the area and wanted the same thing. We were both fed up with our corporate jobs, which didn't hurt. We've since met many people who don't agree, and who usually end up going back.

Both of us managed to have British, therefore European, passports. I was born in London, husband's father born in England. Made staying here somewhat easier.

The other lucky thing was that i agreed to teach English in the local school system, really just as a way to help our village school. Turns out I became a regular employee with health insurance rights. I stopped 6 or 7 years ago, and we had a bit of a scare late last year when the rules did change, and it looked like we might be in the group left out of the health insurance plan. However, all is now well and we are covered by France's excellent system.

We also did a lot of things to improve our luck, like working hard at French before we came, and working hard at getting to know people when we arrived. (Being asked to help out at the school didn't arrive from nowhere)

We came because we fell in love with this part of France, and were ready for a new life. Our two cats who cem with us didn't complain either.

People said how brave we were, but in fact it was something we felt we just had to do, and brave didn't enter into it. No desire to go back to Canada, and when we do go to visit family, we feel completely out of touch, and happy to come 'home' to France.

This is such an interesting post! And also interesting how it is resonating with so many people. I have dreamed about moving to Italy - maybe not forever, but for a few years. It does seem like it would be very difficult to find a job, but I'm taking Italian, because I think that is the first step. For me (an art and history lover) it would be such an incredible experience to be right there. And also - at mid life - as someone said "seize the day." I am anxious to get away from DC - the traffic the air, the race around. Oh I would so love it....it's lovely to see how many people are making that dream come true!
Susan
Washington DC

Carlux said
<People said how brave we were, but in fact it was something we felt we just had to do, and brave didn't enter into it.>

That's perfect! We moved to the UK but see it as only our first stop in our "live around the world" adventure. We hope that each subsequent move will take us to more and more exciting and exotic places. We get the brave comment too -- but it isn't about being brave at all. It's just doing what you feel you need to do. Thanks carlux for saying it so well!

travel2live,

We moved Aug 1, 2007 to London. And we love it. I am a CA as well, and my hubby is in IT. We actually changed careers after we were married so that we can do this.

Leaving family was sad, but it really hasnt been that bad. I have lived away from my family for over 10 years, so only saw them 2 times a year for a weekend here or there. My hubby's family just moved as well so we didnt see them much at all. To be honest we talk to our families more now hahahaha...and they are all coming out for 2-3 week trips likely every year where they will spend a week in London and then we will all go somewhere.

And of course facebook and our blog are great ways to keep up with everyone.

Have you pinpointed any specific towns yet?

suzG--sorry to disappoint you, but Italy also has traffic, bad air, and racing around. Of course, if you're just on vacation in Italy, the racing around part doesn't necessarily apply, but that's true anywhere, including your home country.

<i>suzG--sorry to disappoint you, but Italy also has traffic, bad air, and racing around.</i>

Amen. The larger Italian cities share the same problems that any large US city has, often even worse. Certainly, air quality and traffic are issues in any large European city, much as in the US.

This goes back to the point about thinking about why you are moving. If you want to move to Europe in a bid to slow down your life and get out of the rat race, I urge people to consider whether they are conflating a desire to slow down with a desire to move to Europe. Moving to Europe comes with a lot of hassles and challenges; if you are looking for natural beauty and a slower pace, then you might find you can get those in the US, at less cost and less hassle. For example, someone posted about how cheap rents in rural Italy are compared to Manhattan. Of course they are, just as rents in rural Vermont are a fraction of those in Manhattan. You don't need to move to Europe to get a nice apartment in a small town for a fraction of what you would pay in Manhattan.

Of course, many do want what Europe offers, in terms of historic villages or the appeal of London or Paris. The key is separating those Europe-only attributes from those that can be found elsewhere. Until you do that, and make an honest assessment of how much you value those different attributes, then I would say you haven't really thought it through.

In a heartbeat!
Maybe not forever, but at least 6 months to a couple years.

We moved to Edinburgh 2.5 years ago and absolutely love it! We're on a 3-year contract for my husband's job but are starting the process to get permanent visas to stay... and maybe one day citizenship? We love living here and are so thrilled that we took the leap. We're also under 30 and don't have kids yet so it was really easy to move.

I think what made it easier for me is that there was nowhere in the states that felt like 'home' to me - none of my family still lives where I grew up, my parents divorced and live on opposite sides of the country and my brother is still in school and has no plans for after graduation. Both of our families are scattered all over the states and up through Alaska so there isn't really a centre for us.

We love so many things about living here... the 'free' health care (I went without in the states for a couple years so really appreciate it!), the fact that we don't have a car and hardly notice, the amazing travel opportunities... the list goes on forever. When we decide to have children I'll have a full year off from work to care for my baby, we have 6 weeks of holiday time a year... it's so incredible to live like this I still can't believe how lucky we are.

We might return to the states one day - or move to Australia - or Munich (I love Munich!) - or really anywhere, I can't rule anything out, but for now we're planning on staying here.

Zappole - your description of your home sounds lovely, maybe we'll get to live there one day!

I'm glad you put 'free' in quotes for the health care. Of course it isn't 'free,' just paid for in advance with taxes.

I agree with Travelgourmet's above statement. All this talk about moving to Europe for a slower pace is a bit puzzling to me. As big as the U.S. is, there are plenty of places to move to that have a slower pace. I have plenty of friends in various countries in Europe and who are living in a rat race lifestyle and always complaining about it.
I think that many people, who are in Europe, on vacation come back to the U.S. with this idealized vision that things are slower. Well, yeah, they're on vacation and not having to work and do the things that people do in their everyday &quot;regular&quot; lives. Just my opinion on the issue. Happy Travels!

<i>I have plenty of friends in various countries in Europe and who are living in a rat race lifestyle and always complaining about it.</i>

Both my wife and I work as hard and as many hours in Europe as we did in the US. There are certainly no 2 hour lunches over a glass of wine in a quaint cafe or traipsing off to the market every day to get my pick of the fresh produce. If anything, we find many of our days more compressed, as we find ourselves racing home to get to the store before it closes, or getting up early on Saturday, because everything starts shutting down by 1pm.

Our free time is regimented in a way it never was in the US, due to the fact that it is so much less convenient to complete day-to-day errands when and where you want to complete them. For instance, my wife and I used to often have friends over for Sunday dinners when we lived in the US. It was sort of our thing. My buddy and I would head out early Sunday afternoon to pick up the fixin's for dinner and we would spend the better part of Sunday evening cooking and chatting and drinking. Here, if I want to cook up a feast on Sunday, it means I have to shop on Saturday. Spur of the moment cravings for braised short ribs are doomed by the fact that your shopping choices are the 7-Eleven or the Thai Supermarket (which is maybe 1/10th of the size of the Asian supermarket we went to in the US).

Ditto to the two posts above.

One interesting thing has come up in terms of job seeking: some international recruiters we have talked to say they won't even consider candidates who haven't lived in Europe for at least a couple of years because the people who have only traveled to Europe on holiday or as students or have lived abroad just a year or so still have much too much a rose-colored view of what life is really like.
We've lived in a few European countries for almost a decade now. Some places we have liked MUCH more than others.

Also, remember, that no matter where you go, the one thing that always travels with you is YOU. Moving to Europe won't be an &quot;escape&quot; from the things in your personality or outlook that may drag you down at home. If, for example, you're short-tempered or disorganized in the U.S., you won't automatically become serene and orderly in Europe. Your character, both the good and the bad, will remain essentially the same and so will that of any loved ones who move with you.

&quot; Spur of the moment cravings for braised short ribs are doomed by the fact that your shopping choices are the 7-Eleven or the Thai Supermarket (which is maybe 1/10th of the size of the Asian supermarket we went to in the US).&quot;


if no other, that would definitely be a good argument to deter anyone contemplating living in Europe!
LOL

YES! No problem relocating... the problem lies in the WHERE? It would be very difficult determining where I ended up... Would I want a flat in Munich or a country home in Alsace? An apartment in Paris or a seaside villa in Santa Margherita? Ahhh, the decisions, the decisions!

It may sound silly to some, but one of the most difficult things for me to give up would be US football, college and pro.

I ran into a couple from Ireland this week. Their views? Ireland has changed so much, people have money coming out of their ears, the pace of life is hectic, and they envied our relaxed lifestyle in the American West.

Reminds me of the poem: &quot;Ill fares the land with hastening ills a prey, where wealth accumulates and men decay.&quot;

Many citizens within the EU and Schengen countries are now moving to other countries. Switzerland has been literally invaded by the Germans (which we don't mind) and England has a huge population of Poles.

I wonder how this new influx will change Europe in the next few decades?

Schuler: let us not overlook the Turkification of Germany. The tensions building will some day reach an explosion point.

<i>It may sound silly to some, but one of the most difficult things for me to give up would be US football, college and pro.</i>

Testify!

We get 2 NFL games per week, but it is tough giving up college ball. The internet helps, but it isn't the same. College basketball is non-existent, as well. The Europeans don't know what they are missing...